[sudszy]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

It is not relatively small when you are the relatively dead occupant, I have seen a few and they did not seem to like it..

Very emotive, but the context was that you and others claim that the energy of the vehicles themselves is converted to that of the occupants in a collision. I pointed out the folly of that, its only how quickly the kinetic energy of the person is removed that is important, a RELATIVELY small amount compared to what is in the whole collision......perhaps you can give another alternative to what I meant by that,other than misquoting.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

As the structure collapses , it is not just the energy stored in the occupant that does damage to him, it is also the energy stored in the seat back, back seat, parcel shelf and loose items in the car etc. In large scale crashes it is not just the occupant moving and hitting surfaces, surfaces also move and hit the occupant. .

Sure parts of the car, loosely stored luggage can be killers in any mass of vehicle, but that is not what you or others were claiming nor what I was refuting.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

At Least that is what happens at the crashes I have been to, nearly every fatality was a result of the loss of structure to the passenger compartment and the passenger now occupying a much smaller space than before, energy was transferred from the car to the occupant.
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This is the bit giving you most trouble.
You believe that if the passenger cell remains okay then the passenger survives? A cell can be designed to survive a 100km/h head on, but the passengers wont.

When the cell does crumple, there are parts of the car that are now in the passenger compartment that werent there before, but they are not moving(front end components etc), they have hit the wall and become stationary, its the person still moving towards them at speed that hits them which incurs the damage due to their own moving energy.

Stationary objects have no kinetic energy to give away...

Ive deliberately left this as the car(any vehicle) into the wall example, but the same concept applies occur whether its car on car or truck on car.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

As for this discussion, I believe the question has been answered and this is now OT. Perhaps it is time to move on.
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So true, and you are an ambo? keep up the good work.