Tesla: amazing car...with one teensy drawback...

[2011G6E]

Look...I love the Tesla...I'd have one in a heartbeat.

Well...I would if I was allowed to by the electrical company...depending on the local substation.
http://www.news.com.au/technology/in...-1227150333871

THE world’s biggest-selling electric luxury car goes on sale in Australia on Wednesday December 10 but the $100,000 Tesla sedan may have its plug pulled because its special charger is too big for most local electricity grids.
Unlike other electric cars, the Tesla cannot be recharged via a normal power point and requires a special charger to be installed at home or work at a cost of up to $10,000 -- and may also need to have the local electricity sub-station upgraded at a cost of more than $50,000, according to experts.

Tesla issued a map showing future charging points will be installed in Queensland, NSW and Victoria by 2016, but it is yet to pinpoint the locations.
Electric cars already on sale in Australia can be charged on 10 amp household power or require a relatively simple 15 amp upgrade for about $400.
But because the Tesla requires a 40 amp single phase charger, the Master Electricians Association says there may be restrictions on upgrading household power supply and connecting to the local electricity grid.

At a minimum, the 40 amp single phase charger that Tesla uses exclusively will need approval from local electricity network suppliers.
When Tesla eventually switches to a three phase 32 amp charger, the upgrades to the electricity system in the average home will cost close to $10,000.
Most modern households with single phase electricity supply have a maximum capacity of 63 amps, however there are restrictions on how much energy any one item can draw, and each household needs to be inspected to determine how much spare capacity -- if any -- there is to install a Tesla charger.
“It is highly unlikely the mains cable coming into the home switchboard will be adequate to carry the extra 40 amp load to recharge the car,” said Master Electricians Australia spokesman Greg Bryant.

...cont's...

Whoops...seems there's no such thing as s free lunch. Yes it's powerful, yes it has a realistic range before recharging...but no one saw this awkward little problem coming. Green groups seemed to think the emergence of such a car meant that everyone would be able to change over to electric cars of a similar design.

Not without billions spent upgrading the electricity grid, substations, and massive costs to households in upgrading to suit the new charging points needed for this type of technology...

[Top_Ghia]

Damn! 40 Amps is a lot of current and will cost a packet to charge. So much for electric cars being free or cheap to run.

[arronm]

No worries, I am an electrician. I will install my own socket

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by arronm

No worries, I am an electrician. I will install my own socket

Of course there's the little niggle of having to let the local power mob know what you're doing as substations and power lines to the house may not be able to handle the output. Just a socket? Yeah fine...but there's everything else that goes with it.

Love the way some guy drove one to Darwin. However a huge truck with a massive generator had to follow him all the way...yep...that's clean and green...

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Love the way some guy drove one to Darwin. However a huge truck with a massive generator had to follow him all the way...yep...that's clean and green...

That was part of the global green challenge. The guy was Simon Hackett, the founder of Adelaide based ISP Internode.
You can read all about it here: http://blog.internode.on.net/categor...een-challenge/

The generator truck was sent ahead of the Telsa each day to simulate having charging stations in place.

[arronm]

Not really kettle, toaster, one air con and my spa will pull more than 40 amps. So a car plugged in will be no problem.

BUT if everyone had a telsa then it would be an issue

[2011G6E]

I don't think it's about "pulling" 40 amps. It's to do with the power supply coming into the house. For now it's a 40 amp single phase, but it will need upgrading to a 32 amp three phase.

It says quite clearly "Most modern households with single phase electricity supply have a maximum capacity of 63 amps, however there are restrictions on how much energy any one item can draw, and each household needs to be inspected to determine how much spare capacity -- if any -- there is to install a Tesla charger."

So it might be a choice...do I use any other appliances while I'm trying to charge my car up, or spend an inordinate amount of money upgrading the whole house so I can power an outlet for the car and watch TV at the same time while the fridge is going...?

[arronm]

Yep. You won't be able to charge the car while you are making breakfast

[2011G6E]

I'm sorry...but as great as this car is, like every other electric car, they will only ever be an inner city novelty item for cashed up environmentally conscious people.

Green groups will say "Well they're not meant for everyone", but that's not the point. If you want us to move away from nasty fossil fuelled cars, then they have to be for "everyone everywhere". And they aren't, and never will be until the meet a few basic requirements that would mean they match or surpass petrol and diesel cars.
Namely, four to five passengers and luggage, able to drive at the speed limit and normal highway driving with a full load and air con going for a range of around 600km, with a five minute recharge to full capacity. Simple. Until they can do that, they will, as I said, remain an inner city novelty, no matter how good they are. Sad really.

[commodorenutt]

Exactly - they are a novelty, and they're simply shifting the pollution problem to somewhere else when Australia relies so heavily on coal fired power stations (and gas). Ironically, all the green NIMBY's are happy though.....

And the way power prices are going, how long before a "recharge" costs more than a tank of petrol?

[Freiherr]

No thanks. I am sticking with my XR8 order. Meets all the ease of use criteria apart from the 600 km range, which a jerry can in the boot should easily fix.
Another question for thought - how does the government work out the fuel excise on the Tesla charge top up? Surely the car energy tax will be different to the tax paid on the morning toast.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Freiherr

Another question for thought - how does the government work out the fuel excise on the Tesla charge top up? Surely the car energy tax will be different to the tax paid on the morning toast.

Like all the huge numbers of people that were fooled into getting LPG fitted to their cars when the government was heavily subsidising it and then once enough people had converted, oh look, they whacked up the excise that high that is is hardly worth having an LPG car any more.

It will come...once electric cars are in decent numbers (and in city areas they will be), they will bring in some sort of tariff...

[Yellow_Festiva]

I take it the uprated charging hardware is required due to the fact that it has such a large battery?

Looking at another EV (Mitsubishi I-MiEV), it quick charges in 30 minutes (probably on 3 phase) yet takes 7hrs to charge using a regular household outlet. God for a max range of only 160km.

Tesla is a much larger car, has a much larger range as well. I wonder if the Tesla's charging time using standard house supply is measured in days and not hours? Hence the requirement for such a beefy supply.

Any word on the charging time should you spend the extra coin for the upgraded supply?

I still think 'quick swap' stations are needed, not 'quick charge' stations.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I take it the uprated charging hardware is required due to the fact that it has such a large battery?

Looking at another EV (Mitsubishi I-MiEV), it quick charges in 30 minutes (probably on 3 phase) yet takes 7hrs to charge using a regular household outlet. God for a max range of only 160km.

Tesla is a much larger car, has a much larger range as well. I wonder if the Tesla's charging time using standard house supply is measured in days and not hours? Hence the requirement for such a beefy supply.

Any word on the charging time should you spend the extra coin for the upgraded supply?

I still think 'quick swap' stations are needed, not 'quick charge' stations.

The only problem with quick swap stations is the battery bank is usually a massive pain in the *** to get to/change out, plus precautions about high voltages need to be taken.

Plus you would be a bit inconsistent with range I think because you'd be constantly getting used batteries in there and you don't know how far down they would be on capacity.

Hopefully we're not far away from a breakthrough in battery technology

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

The only problem with quick swap stations is the battery bank is usually a massive pain in the *** to get to/change out, plus precautions about high voltages need to be taken.

Very true, but this can be overcome by having a standardised system that all manufactures follow. If the ability to quick swap was designed into the car it wouldn't be a problem. Battery packs can come in 3 sizes, much the same as we have AAA batteries for small devices, AA batteries for larger devices and C / D cell batteries for larger devices again.

Petrol is a highly flammable liquid, we pump millions of litres of the stuff a week with next to no issues. Safety is an issue, but those considerations need to be factored into the design - much the same with other electrical devices we use on a daily basis.

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Plus you would be a bit inconsistent with range I think because you'd be constantly getting used batteries in there and you don't know how far down they would be on capacity.

Perhaps have a guaranteed minimum (90%??). Again, we see this already with our unleaded / E10 stuff where it ranged from 91-95 RON depending on the blend and who you buy it from.

All new(ish) technology has its teething problems. There will always be ways to work around most issues and compromise on others.

These days, 'time is money' and I don't see people stopping for 30 min to quick charge their car.

I personally love the idea of electric vehicles, but I don't think they have it sorted it out for cheap mass consumption - yet. This Tesla issue highlights this.

[Cobra]

In 100 years, when every car has long been electric, Tesla will be remembered as the Model T of the electric powered vehicles. Teething problems today will be sorted over time.

[warpsp33d]

That article isn't really worded very well.

You don't strictly need that capacity of charging.

You can charge a Tesla using a normal power plug... it'll just take a while. Not an issue though if it's your daily driver and you plug it in overnight.

The Tesla has various different charging options that range from a single bog standard power point (that will take like 24 hours to fully charge the battery from empty), all the way up to the 80A super chargers (that will charge it in something like 3 hours - 80% charge in 30 minutes or something crazy like that).

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Cobra

In 100 years, when every car has long been electric, Tesla will be remembered as the Model T of the electric powered vehicles. Teething problems today will be sorted over time.

I'm sure that, literally at the start of last century, people were saying the same about the Lohner Porsche.
Nearly 120 years later, and this is all the development in regards to EVs we have seen!?

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by smoo

I'm sure that, literally at the start of last century, people were saying the same about the Lohner Porsche.
Nearly 120 years later, and this is all the development in regards to EVs we have seen!?

the concepts designed then have come a long way since the early 1900's

'The Lohner-Porsche's design was studied by Boeing and NASA to create the Apollo program’s Lunar rover. Many of its design principles were mirrored in the Rover’s design. The series hybrid concept underpins many modern railway locomotives, and interest in series hybrid automobiles is growing rapidly.'

[Davehoos]

People today refer to Model T not because it was an engineering leap or even a great product, but what it allow society.

Tesla will only be remembered in history if it engages society like Steve Jobs and home computors.

Received an excited club journal that refered to the first deliveries of P85 and the next years P85D. no mention of its ability-just that its here.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

the concepts designed then have come a long way since the early 1900's

'The Lohner-Porsche's design was studied by Boeing and NASA to create the Apollo program’s Lunar rover. Many of its design principles were mirrored in the Rover’s design. The series hybrid concept underpins many modern railway locomotives, and interest in series hybrid automobiles is growing rapidly.'

Sorry, my post was referring to private/light vehicles. So, no great amount of advancemet in over 100 years.

The same can be said for the internal combustion engine. Next time some euro poser gets on his high horse beacuse his BMW/Audi is 'efficient', well, the French, Germans and Italians had dohc & forced induction 100 years ago, and even the most tech loaded modern cars are struggling to break 40% effieiency. We are all driving dinosaurs and it aint gonna change anytime soon.

[mik]

Originally Posted by smoo

Sorry, my post was referring to private/light vehicles. So, no great amount of advancemet in over 100 years.

The same can be said for the internal combustion engine. Next time some euro poser gets on his high horse beacuse his BMW/Audi is 'efficient', well, the French, Germans and Italians had dohc & forced induction 100 years ago, and even the most tech loaded modern cars are struggling to break 40% effieiency. We are all driving dinosaurs and it aint gonna change anytime soon.

Yeah but this dinosaur you speak of is very versatile, it will run on a vast array of fuels, including rubbish fuels, and pollution coming from internal combustion engines is less about the way it operates and more about the type of fuel used in it.

[malazn mafia]

How large is a 40amp petrol generator? Just put one on a trailer for long trips and would probably be more economical than a petrol car anyway

[phild12s131e]

A few years ago they ran a Tesla in the Darwin to Adelaide solar challenge. There was much back slapping on the results from a number of supporters but it was when you actually looked at the complete results and the level of support that was required to keep it going that it was obvious that it was little more than a day to day commute vehicle in the more populated cities. The likelihood that many roadhouse's would be in the position to provide the power requirements from their self sourced generation capacity to cope with the Tesla are a long way in to the future. Also, the speed at which they had to cruise to allow the range they got would make for a very boring trip and the only people that would be happy would be the "Speed kills" brigade plus Skippy and his friends.

In 1988 we did a trip from Darwin via the East coast and back up the centre in a 1982 KA Ford Laser with 2 adults, one 3 year old, plenty of luggage and a roof top storage box. We did Adelaide to Darwin in just under 2 days with a good nights rest in Alice and all with unlimited use of air-conditioning, headlights all day, some use of driving lights for a while and even a quick visit to some friends while there. Only other support required was the fuel stops and a few meals. When the Tesla, or any other hybrid, can match or beat that I'll think about becoming a believer.

[esppwr]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How large is a 40amp petrol generator? Just put one on a trailer for long trips and would probably be more economical than a petrol car anyway

These sort of comments crack me up. Most greenies have no idea.
So it's more efficient to use a petrol generator in a trailer to power your electric car than to use a petrol engine to power your car.

A modern car converts about 35% of the energy in fuel into power
A 40 amp generator might do 40% if it's lucky.
Then you charge a battery which creates heat so you lose 10% of the 40% of the fuels energy you turned into power so your down to 36% of energy the fuel originally had.
Then you discharge the battery which again creates heat and so your down to 32% of the energy the fuel originally had
Even an electric motor ain't a 100% efficient say 95%, so now you lose another 5% so your down to 30%.
Your now driving a car that weighs more than the petrol equivelant due to the batteries and towing a trailer which adds more weight and drag in the forms of wind resistance and friction. So you ain't saving any fuel except when your stopped at the traffic lights.

Now to charging electric cars, most of Australia's power comes from burning coal so again it's bad news for the environment. Only in Tasmania were nearly all power comes from hydro would electric cars make sense but even then the technology is still way behind were it needs to be.

The plan for electric cars would be to charge during off peak(night), get you to work in the morning, be plugged in while at work and support the electricity grid as required, then get you home at night. This would allow less load on the grid during the day as your car would discharge into the grid and allow the big power companies generators to run flat out during the night optimizing there performance/efficiency. The electric cars battery need to increase in capacity, improve charge & discharge efficiency and reduce in weight for this to ever be viable. The auto industry has taken big steps in the past decade, but it's up to electricity companies to make the electric car an environmental solution.

[Cashie]

Originally Posted by esppwr

These sort of comments crack me up. Most greenies have no idea.

Now to charging electric cars, most of Australia's power comes from burning coal so again it's bad news for the environment. Only in Tasmania were nearly all power comes from hydro would electric cars make sense but even then the technology is still way behind were it needs to be.

Surprisingly coal fired power stations are very efficient, lots has been said about 'the long tailpipe' argument.

The efficiency of the electric motor coupled with the efficiency of the average coal power station is pretty awesome.

According to the World Resources Institute, electric powered cars recharging from coal-fired plants will reduce CO2 emissions by at least 17 to 22 percent.

Of course this doesn't account for owners with solar or the fact Teslas own free to use Super Chargers will be solar as well.

I'm far from a greenie but I respect the technology and performance of the Tesla.

[mik]

The problem with slow chargers is your without a car until its done, I would imagine for battery longevity doing partial bit charges would be a No No ? .......
I used a power calculator, correct me if I'm wrong
40 amps X 240 volts = 9600 watts. = holy **** ? That is a god awful lot of juice if that is correct.

[Bent8]

Electric cars are not a cleaner tech anyway when you really think about it...

Imagine if half the world suddenly switched to electric cars.. the demand for electricity would be astronomical.

And where does electric power come from?... coal, nuclear and fracking !

Until we have the tech to deploy solar recharging stations, this is all just a big waste of time and money.

To all prospective TESLA owners, enjoy charging your new toys.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Bent8

Electric cars are not a cleaner tech anyway when you really think about it...

Imagine if half the world suddenly switched to electric cars.. the demand for electricity would be astronomical.

And where does electric power come from?... coal, nuclear and fracking !

Until we have the tech to deploy solar recharging stations, this is all just a big waste of time and money.

To all prospective TESLA owners, enjoy charging your new toys.

Power requirements in terms of charging is only half the issue, don't forget the large battery banks these cars have, and the power requirements required to obtain and process the chemicals / elements that make them up.

[FGX335]

Just waiting for the first person to forget it is plugged in, and drive off down the road still connected to the charger. I'd be hoping there is some sort of quick release coupling...