Shannons auction - 2005 Mustang

[Yellow_Festiva]

Hello all,

I need some help with this seeing as I'm heading into unchartered territory and don't want to be burnt financially.

Next week at a Shannons auction there is a yellow mustang that has caught my eye down in Melbourne.

https://www.shannons.com.au/auctions...266437ENV055C/

Looks nice, have asked a few questions on the phone but they seemed to want to not give out specifics, so I have been sending some emails.

I'm a little concerned that it isn't registered. They have said it was properly converted and ADR complied.

By email they have also confirmed that the previous owner has lost all the paperwork on the car. (this is the part that has got me worried).

They have sent me through the following images:









The red one looks like something to do with compliance?

Can someone please share their thoughts? Why does that red plate look like it's been digitally modified? That white section with the VIN looks way too unblemished compared to the rest of it?

These pictures have come from Shannons auction representatives.

I have emailed for specific details of the modifications from their point of view as an insurer - I'm yet to receive a reply.

Cheers,

Jason

[Citroënbender]

You can identify and contact the workshop (Crossover Car Conversions, PIN 10001) who did the conversion, I think the white panel has been accentuated by the camera - possibly in portrait mode by mistake. They are in Ferntree Gully and are current in trading.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

You can identify and contact the workshop (Crossover Car Conversions, PIN 10001) who did the conversion, I think the white panel has been accentuated by the camera - possibly in portrait mode by mistake. They are in Ferntree Gully and are current in trading.

True, I was going to do that. But really the conversion was done some 10 years ago. Perhaps they will ask for some $$ to re-issue paperwork?

And if that was the case, why didn't the vendor arrange it themselves??

Something doesn't sit right with this car.

[Citroënbender]

If you are mistrustful already, let it go. It won’t get better.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

If you are mistrustful already, let it go. It won’t get better.

I was stupid enough to call Shannons to try and get an insurance quote...

That call lasted over an hour.

The gist of the disagreement was they refused to quote until I purchased...

They tried to impress me with their legalese that a quote is a legally binding contract that must be honoured.

What a joke....

The ONLY variable was the purchase price.. I was told that without a fixed price it was against their T&C's to quote.

Kept giving me examples of all the things that could go wrong if they dared give me a estimate based on a realistic purchase price.

After a while I asked for a supervisor... after 10 minutes waiting on hold I was told I can get an anonymous quote.

That took 25 minutes. Because after each question I was reminded how this discussion isn't binding...

I needed 2 Panadol after that conversation...

If her name wasn't Karen it should have been...

Over 1 bloody hr....

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[Captain Stubing]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I was stupid enough to call Shannons to try and get an insurance quote...

That call lasted over an hour.

The gist of the disagreement was they refused to quote until I purchased...

They tried to impress me with their legalese that a quote is a legally binding contract that must be honoured.

What a joke....

The ONLY variable was the purchase price.. I was told that without a fixed price it was against their T&C's to quote.

Kept giving me examples of all the things that could go wrong if they dared give me a estimate based on a realistic purchase price.

After a while I asked for a supervisor... after 10 minutes waiting on hold I was told I can get an anonymous quote.

That took 25 minutes. Because after each question I was reminded how this discussion isn't binding...

I needed 2 Panadol after that conversation...

If her name wasn't Karen it should have been...

Over 1 bloody hr....

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I did a bit of looking around, and that VIN shows up to be currently registered in Victoria, until 22/1/2022. The rego number is BKW483 (VIC).

[Full Noise]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I was stupid enough to call Shannons to try and get an insurance quote... That call lasted over an hour.

Just stumbled across this thread and I must admit that I was stupid enough to call Shannons as I’m getting a new ute. After the best part of 30 minutes on the phone, the call was abruptly ended as they have strict conditions on vehicles of this value, so he says, and they will not offer insurance for this type of vehicle unless it’s locked in a garage overnight, blah blah.

Then I remembered how difficult they were to deal with when I got my Trans Am. Moral of the story is that I went elsewhere and got a better deal.

[Tassie f100]

Surely Shannons are responsible for guaranteeing clear title and free of finance or other encumbrances

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Tassie f100

Surely Shannons are responsible for guaranteeing clear title and free of finance or other encumbrances

The T&C's of the auction seem to make the onus on the buyer to check.

I emailed that exact question and they confirmed that it's checked but then mentioned if it was never registered it may not appear:

"To protect he Buyer and the seller Shannons does a PPSR on every vehicle to make sure that it is not encumbered. If the ppsr has a record and shows that there are funds owing this is discussed with the owner and sorted out pre auction. Please keep in mind sometimes for some reason some vehicle do not show up on the ppsr reports ( many reasons - eg never been registered) ."

The km of the car do not reflect its age. I'm wondering if it was ever registered after RHD conversion, and if not why? If it were registered it would have been a selling point??

The person then said if I have more questions to call them. No, they were wishy washy on the phone the last time and talk means nothing after the fact.

[lumen8]

Id be concerned also if there was no evidence of being registered. If it wasnt, its a little odd that somebody would go to the trouble and expense of converting it and getting it approved, then letting it sit as a collector car... but that can happen. Of course the flip side is there was some kind of issue in registering it, so it never happened. Possibilities you have to think about and clearly have.

The red plate is basically the Australian compliance plate, it is required on cars like this if they are to be registered. Looks legit enough, but you can never know unless followed up.

The fact that the conversion place is still trading as already mentioned is a bonus though, many from back in the day are not... I have a Camaro that is in that situation... but I knew it was registered in the past (I was given the NSW rego papers, expired for couple years) , and everything matched the cars numbers and the plate added here, so I wasnt worried about it.

Finding if the conversion is legit should be much easier for you than if it was done at a place no longer operating. I guess you just have to contact them and find out.

[lumen8]

Well it could well be simply just registered and they are selling it without plates as its easier to just pull them, its a requirement in Vic even if you dont want to do the transfer paper route etc.

Not cool that Shannons (and perhaps the seller) are being all cagey about it.. because if they could just show you that car is indeed BKW 483, show you they had a vic rego paper in their possession, Id lean towards it being all above board. But given what you have (havent) been told, again id have concerns.

Youd think they would do all they could to legitimise the vehicle, and if it is currently registered why hide it. Strange indeed.

[MITCHAY]

While I understand they can't really quote without a purchase price (assuming this is agreed value) surely if you gave them a price roughly around what you would be willing to pay then the premium can't be more than that if it goes less?

It shouldn't take an hour plus of them ****ing you around though, that's ridiculous that they couldn't just suggest that. I have done heaps of online quotes without purchasing the car by putting in a ballpark figure.

In any case the factory RHD Mustangs are not that expensive so maybe just wait a bit for one of them.

Sure they won't be anything special but you won't have to worry about any of this BS.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

While I understand they can't really quote without a purchase price (assuming this is agreed value) surely if you gave them a price roughly around what you would be willing to pay then the premium can't be more than that if it goes less?

It shouldn't take an hour plus of them ****ing you around though, that's ridiculous that they couldn't just suggest that. I have done heaps of online quotes without purchasing the car by putting in a ballpark figure.

In any case the factory RHD Mustangs are not that expensive so maybe just wait a bit for one of them.

Sure they won't be anything special but you won't have to worry about any of this BS.

Looking back, the person either has no grasp of common sense or is a mindless robot reading a script that can't be deviated from.

I have another car insured with Shannons for several years and I was close to asking them to just cancel my other policy if providing a quote is just way too hard for another car with them.

Some pearlers from the conversation:

"Quotes are legally binding documents and MUST be 100% accurate and we are legally liable to cover ANY car we quote".

"You can simply bid on the car, then if you win ask the auctioneer to allow you time to seek clarification on the insurance premium - only once we know the value can we legally provide a quote. If you don't like the quote just simply pull out of the sale - happens all the time when people change their mind".

"Any person that is asking what insurance costs on a car as a deciding factor when buying perhaps shouldn't be buying that car.. don't you think?"

"There are dozens of variables that go into an insurance policy and you must know all of them, if you don't then you are practically conducting fraud for providing false information".

And when I reminded her the ONLY variable was the price..

"The purchase price is the MOST IMPORTANT variable when it comes to insurance.. say you give us the wrong price and you take out a policy and you have an accident then you have misled us as your insurance may be void.. that's why I simply can't provide you a quote".

"We will need evidence that you can handle such a car - have you owned or driven a car like this in the past? That answer will have a great bearing on if we can provide you cover".

When finally getting permission to get an anonymous quote I mentioned that the car will be parked in an under ground secure resident parking area in my own closed off garage.

"So, you say that it's parked in an apartment building - most are open space parking right? Oh, its closed off" But other people can access it right? - it's only closed off at the street right? Oh - you have an individual garage? Who else can access it? Is it open from the sides? Oh, you have a garage - does it have a door, like a roller door or something or is it open? you said the parking is secure but you didn't specify if you have a garage? Oh, you do, that's quite rare, are you sure? Garaging has a GREAT EMPHASIS of our decision to insure you and I will remind you that by providing false information may generate now a different outcome later on".

Can you imagine 30 questions having that sort of banter?

The person loved the sound of their own voice, constantly spoke over me, constantly interrupted me and just cut me off to explain the legalities of everything I said without allowing me to finish anything I was saying.

Actually... I'm tempted to make a formal complaint - it really shouldn't be that hard to give a quote for a car they themselves are selling and to keep an existing customer happy.

As for the more recent RHD cars - I take your point but they are a little too 'mainstream' for me to be honest.

[Franco Cozzo]

Wouldn't buy any conversion cars, unless it was done by an outfit like HSV/Walkinshaw or the old Tickford Mustangs.

Seen too many ****ing bodgy disasters from second stage manufacturers, cut on shut on wiring looms that cause problems etc.

Then there's the issue with the replacement parts, good luck trying to find replacement parts for a conversion car.

[lumen8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Wouldn't buy any conversion cars, unless it was done by an outfit like HSV/Walkinshaw or the old Tickford Mustangs.

Seen too many ****ing bodgy disasters from second stage manufacturers, cut on shut on wiring looms that cause problems etc.

Then there's the issue with the replacement parts, good luck trying to find replacement parts for a conversion car.

Agree it can be hit and miss, some are reasonable, but some are terrible.

Im less afraid as I can weld and wire , and was a dealership tech that worked on euro stuff ... but you make a good point that people should approach with caution.

Most of the time you cant see how things have been done until you have a chance to inspect things really closely, including up on a lift.. and under the dash also.

At least the mob who did this 'stang in question are still around, perhaps a sign that they do a decent job. So many from the 90s and 00's have dropped off the face of the earth.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by lumen8

Agree it can be hit and miss, some are reasonable, but some are terrible.

Im less afraid as I can weld and wire , and was a dealership tech that worked on euro stuff ... but you make a good point that people should approach with caution.

Most of the time you cant see how things have been done until you have a chance to inspect things really closely, including up on a lift.. and under the dash also.

At least the mob who did this 'stang in question are still around, perhaps a sign that they do a decent job. So many from the 90s and 00's have dropped off the face of the earth.

There's a couple still around which churn out shonky **** on the regular

Think cut and shut wiper linkages to suit RHD geometry, electrical and mechanical cables and the like, things made bespoke on a per car basis rather than as a production line item and all the variances that brings 10+ years down the track.

[XR Martin]

I love my Fords but I wouldn’t pay $10k for that letlone the $30-$40k estimate.
BA/BF GT would crap all over that and be a much better long term investment.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

I love my Fords but I wouldn’t pay $10k for that letlone the $30-$40k estimate.
BA/BF GT would crap all over that and be a much better long term investment.

Yes, but I just like the look of it, and it's the right colour.

Would happily pay $30-$40k as it is a little different.

Not really interested in the long term investment side of things.

[Vekgib]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Yes, but I just like the look of it, and it's the right colour.

Would happily pay $30-$40k as it is a little different.

Not really interested in the long term investment side of things.

Same. Love to get hold of something like that. Bugger the investment.

[MITCHAY]

I wonder how much having Walkinshaw doing RHD conversions cut the local converters grass

I suppose if you want a special Mustang or F truck it makes no difference though since you can't get them any other way.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

I wonder how much having Walkinshaw doing RHD conversions cut the local converters grass

I suppose if you want a special Mustang or F truck it makes no difference though since you can't get them any other way.

For someone like Performax International they'd be a huge threat, but they branched out to all other American utes though not just the couple that Walkinshaw do.

VDC only does Ford stuff.

[Pis-ton broke]

has a history search been done?

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Pis-ton broke

has a history search been done?

Not yet, but will do it if I decide to go ahead.

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[Hemihunter]

Crossover conversions are now Mustang Australia im sure, Good reputation they may have more detail for you.

[bangm001]

When you register it in NSW, will they need an ADR or similar compliance cert for the conversion?
After just reading this thread thought Gee who can be bothered.. Then clicked on the link for the car.. Its rather nice and different to the newer stangs so would be def worth it!

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by bangm001

When you register it in NSW, will they need an ADR or similar compliance cert for the conversion?

Isn't that the purpose of the red compliance plate ? This plate was fitted by the company that carried out the conversion, presumedly AFTER it was converted to RHD. Also an engineering certificate would have been issued at the time.

The plate seems to have all the info for full ADR compliance for all states in Australia. I don't believe that a LHD Mustang of that age would gain ADR compliance.

Dr Terry

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Isn't that the purpose of the red compliance plate ? This plate was fitted by the company that carried out the conversion, presumedly AFTER it was converted to RHD. Also an engineering certificate would have been issued at the time.

The plate seems to have all the info for full ADR compliance for all states in Australia. I don't believe that a LHD Mustang of that age would gain ADR compliance.

Dr Terry

That's what I was thinking seeing as the date on the red plate matches the rego information.

[Polyal]

For 20-30k it would be alright.

There are some dreamers with this model shape and the previous one with pricing.

The S550's are coming in the very low 40k range for the gen1's and even though they are the first of the bunch they are a much better package.

[Yellow_Festiva]

I'm now leaning towards repo / divorce sale.

Owner withholds paperwork, says it's not registered to scare buyers away then buys their own car back cheap...

[Yellow_Festiva]

I note that Shannons is yet to reply to a simple email sent yesterday asking to clarify modifications...

Will call them Monday and tell them I'm recording the call before I start talking. I'm wondering has that bonnet been cut up to fit that bulge?

I should have bid then asked for insurance after the sale like the Shannons insurance representative suggested? I'm sure they record their own calls.. would have been interesting to see what they say considering I'm following the advice of their own staff.