Queensland...those who forget the past are bound to relive it.

2011G6E · 25-01-2014, 11:22 AM

Not just talking about the bad old days of Joh's rule when a gathering of three or more in public could be classed as an "illegal protest" and the Plod would descend in numbers...

This is an interesting one:

Quote:

I've exchanged ONE word in this quote from a political leader from a foreign country from some years back. Can you guess who said it?

"For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to be solved by small concessions. For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Bikie spirit can ever really be eradicated. Don't be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus. Don't think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis. This Bikie contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Bikie, has been banished from our midst".

This works better than I expected. In this one I changed two words, adding "bikies" and "Queensland" instead of the original words:
"So, we are now going to have a total solution to the bikie question. The programme is clear. It reads: total separation, total segregation! What does this mean? It does not only mean the total exclusion of the bikies from the Queensland economic system... It means much more! No Queenslander can be expected to live under the same roof as bikies. The bikies must be chased out of our houses and our residential districts and made to live in rows or blocks of houses where they can keep to themselves and come into contact with Queenslanders as little as possible. They must be clearly identified.... And when we compel the rich bikies to provide for the `poor' of their race, which will certainly be necessary, they will all sink together into a pit of criminality. As this happens, we will be faced with the harsh necessity of eradicating the bikie underworld, just as we root out criminals from our own orderly state: with fire and sword. The result will be the certain and absolute end of bikies in Queensland; its complete annihilation!"

Has the same tone as Newmans rhetoric about bikies, how "the public needs to be our eyes and ears", how we should be turning in people we know who have bikie affiliations or who might know bikies.
You might be surprised...or you might not...when you see who made this quote originally.

You could just as easily substitute "hoon" where I have used "bikie" and it would be fairly close in some cases...but bikes are more relevant because of what's going on in our state.

Here's a link to the original versions and who made them:
http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/statements.htm

superyob · 25-01-2014, 11:43 AM

Here we go again... There is no/nil/nix comparison with Newman to Hitler or Nazi Germany. Please read your history books before making these comparisons. If you are to lazy to read up on the facts, don't make these dubious comparisons at all...

pottery beige · 25-01-2014, 11:46 AM

2011G6E · 25-01-2014, 12:09 PM

Really?
People being arrested not for what they've done, but merely for who they have been seen with in public, tradesman being expected to prove their innocence rather than the authorities having to prove their guilt, family members expected to disassociate with family members completely and not be seen in public with them, people being locked in solitary 23 hours a day for months on end before even being given a hearing before a court, someone being fined $2500 for wearing a ring in public, a government that has reversed the onus of proof and presumption of innocence so that you have to prove your innocence rather than police having to prove your guilt...the list goes on.

It's OK though...the government has already spent $800,000 on an advertising campaign, and is now going to spend over half a million more on a PR campaign to "create an engaged public" who can help them turn in their neighbours or people they think might be linked to bikies somehow.

Yep...sounds like a perfectly normal way to run a democracy...

See...there's that mistaken belief again that people have "rights" in Australia. We don't...we have no USA-style "bill of rights" attached to our constitution (though many many people mistakenly believe we do), and we only really have whatever "rights" the government of the day decides we are ALLOWED to have.
Why do you think it's so easy to pass laws like the VLAD, confiscate your expensive personal property (your car) under "hoon laws", and for governments to just walk in an "resume" your house and land and kick you out when they need to build a highway or something? Yes, a senior magistrate some years back did comment that we have an "implied" freedom of speech because of some previous government rulings, but "implied" isn't worth the paper it (isn't) written on.
Yes, Australia has signed up to UN treaties on various things, but they have no real power as they would infringe on a countries sovereign rights to pass whatever laws internally that it sees fit to "maintain law and order". You don't have rights, you are only supposed to sit quietly and hope the government doesn't notice you, or they can very easily pass whatever laws they want to control you quite easily. Sad, but true.

It's not being paranoid...it's keeping your eyes open to what's going on around you...

superyob · 25-01-2014, 12:20 PM

2011G6E - I do not dispute your opinion about the current state of Queensland's legal landscape although my opinion differs somewhat. What I dispute is a completely erroneous comparison to Hitler and Nazi Germany and the out of context swapping of words in a speech that had murderous genocidal intent...

2011G6E · 25-01-2014, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superyob

2011G6E - I do not dispute your opinion about the current state of Queensland's legal landscape although my opinion differs somewhat. What I dispute is a completely erroneous comparison to Hitler and Nazi Germany and the out of context swapping of words in a speech that had murderous genocidal intent...

Merely showing that repressive regimes can start from what was a normal functioning democracy, slowly and sneakily.

Hell, their own ministers...Bleijie in this case...told us that we had to fear a government that wanted to bring in almost the exact same type of laws when he was in opposition...

Or, there was this funny one posted on Facebook...I didn't believe it until I went and checked the actual book. Is Newman a fan of the Harry Potter series...?

MITCHAY · 25-01-2014, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by superyob

2011G6E - I do not dispute your opinion about the current state of Queensland's legal landscape although my opinion differs somewhat. What I dispute is a completely erroneous comparison to Hitler and Nazi Germany and the out of context swapping of words in a speech that had murderous genocidal intent...

And to add to that it is very disrespectful and an insult to those who lived through those times relating the Queensland government and the Nazis even in jest.

karj · 25-01-2014, 12:55 PM

Reductio ad Hitlerum

Franco Cozzo · 25-01-2014, 01:00 PM

You guys (as a whole) voted for them.

Anna who?

superyob · 25-01-2014, 01:19 PM

2011G6E - The Weimar Republic was not a 'a normal functioning democracy'... It was born out of one of the greatest human disasters of all time, WW1, which spawned a set of circumstances we cannot begin to comprehend in reality. These circumstance included machine gun nests in suburbia, gangs of brown shirts roaming the streets looking for fights and murdering the odd communist or two, runaway rampant inflation, abnormally high unemployment rates, seething anger and loss of pride as a nation due to the Treaty of Versailles, monarchists backing any cause to bring the Kaiser back into power, and that's only the surface...

BHDOGS · 25-01-2014, 01:35 PM

would you say its alot like north korea

69XWGT · 25-01-2014, 02:02 PM

Spin it however you like Superyob. This QLD government sucks big time.

These anti association laws could affect a heap of pensioners playing bridge.

While I want to see the end of criminal bikies, this dumb **** government has gone the wrong way about it and plenty of innocent people are being targeted by over zealous officers.
Basic human rights are being violated

cheap · 25-01-2014, 04:56 PM

Take a deep breath, people can walk down the Gold Coast streets (we along with thousands of people did this today).

The only people who seem to be upset are the conspiracy theorists, bleeding hearts, OMG's and their associates, it would seem the target profiling is working.

Trump · 25-01-2014, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Take a deep breath, people can walk down the Gold Coast streets (we along with thousands of people did this today).

The only people who seem to be upset are the conspiracy theorists, bleeding hearts, OMG's and their associates, it would seem the target profiling is working.

How is life with the govco blinkers on and their Kool-Aid?

cheap · 26-01-2014, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

How is life with the govco blinkers on and their Kool-Aid?

Life is great. Personally I think it wonderful to finally have a few politicians with the determination to put the thugs behind bars.

Maybe you should ask the good folks from Greenacre, Campsie, Punchbowl and other Sydney suburbs how life is treating them. As they tolerate daily shootings with little support from their politicians...

MNM96 · 26-01-2014, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheap

Life is great. Personally I think it wonderful to finally have a few politicians with the determination to put the thugs behind bars.

Maybe you should ask the good folks from Greenacre, Campsie, Punchbowl and other Sydney suburbs how life is treating them. As they tolerate daily shootings with little support from their politicians...

Cheap,

People don't seem to mind those who don't pay their drug debts getting shot.

**Burnout** · 25-01-2014, 08:59 PM

What a complete "load of old cobblers" this thread is!

nstg8a · 25-01-2014, 09:18 PM

I've been pretty vocal in my disdain for these laws but have, at least as far as I know, fallen shy of threatening or suggesting harm to any members of qld's govt, or qpol,
however after a (not very) chance encounter with a member of qpol it was suggested that I refrain from voicing my opinion too readily because of my vulnerable immigration status.

Message received loud and clear here.
Pick your fights people.

Trump · 25-01-2014, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

I've been pretty vocal in my disdain for these laws but have, at least as far as I know, fallen shy of threatening or suggesting harm to any members of qld's govt, or qpol,
however after a (not very) chance encounter with a member of qpol it was suggested that I refrain from voicing my opinion too readily because of my vulnerable immigration status.

Message received loud and clear here.
Pick your fights people.

And people think we live in a just, free democracy...

Govco Pty Ltd (and its shareholders, NOT the public) need to be held to account. And by account, I mean they need to be lynched.

Samurai_Chris · 25-01-2014, 11:04 PM

So lets go back to a left wing do good society that spent all our money. Let all the bad guy's go free, let all the wrong people stay, and have left a world where a young bloke and his girlfriend can't go out for drink with their mates without being killed or glassed in the face!

I am sorry guys. But I for one hope the laws extend to dole bludger's, bogan's, people who resort to road rage, and the piece of **** 15y.o kid that want's to go me in the Ipswich mall because I wouldn't give him a smoke or money!!!

The problem with this country is that we lost our balls for standing up to what is right and just, and allowed the ******* left wing Labor/ Greens/ Independent do-gooder's of this country dictate to us what we can & can't do.. While kid's are running riot with no respect and moral compass. Simply because their parents have been allowed to bludge off the welfare system and stick needles in their arms!

You idiots that talk about the bad old Joh day's are either too young to remember, or are children of a father that was laid off for being too lazy & greedy to know what a good productive job was to realize that we were the envy of this nation....

We had the cheapest living standards. We could walk down the street safe. We had the cheapest petrol. The cheapest alcohol. And people came in drove's with truck's to get the cheapest cigarette's in the country! But no.. The union's and their socialist agenda simply didn't believe that it was ever enough?

Well QLD. You got what you wanted for nearly 20 years and only now we are feeling the pain from that stupid STUPID decision to let children run the show.. If you are winging now. Then don't blame the current government? They are just trying to clean up the mess that YOU left!!!! Are you happy. I mean seriously. Are you happy? You ****** it up for everyone. And if a few bikies getting what they deserves bother you. Then **** off to Afghanistan and tell your story to them!!!!

Ford_The_Win · 25-01-2014, 11:13 PM

Oh, those Queenslanders...

2011G6E · 25-01-2014, 11:22 PM

Bikies: responsible for less than 1% of the crime in the state, yet used as an excuse to bring in vastly wide ranging and broadly worded laws restricting peoples associations which have spread to ordinary law abiding motorcyclists and citizens who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, as well as tradesman who have to explain who all their friends are and what those friends do.

Wait until the "out of control party" laws come in soon, and see the arrest toll mount and see what people think...more than twelve people in a gathering where three create a "public nuisance" or are subject to a public complaint, and police (without needing a warrant) can now just walk in and take control, arresting the organiser who will face a massive fine and a years jail.
Foolish people believe the government spin that this is for those huge Facebook parties where hundreds of teenagers riot in a suburban street.
Yes? Then why does it only say "twelve people or more" and only "three of them" need do something like swear too loudly or block a footpath (examples given by the government of "out of control behaviour)...?

Many nasty things have been done over the years in the name of "law and order", and sadly a lot of the public just believe everything the government tells them despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

MNM96 · 26-01-2014, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Bikies: responsible for less than 1% of the crime in the state, yet used as an excuse to bring in vastly wide ranging and broadly worded laws restricting peoples associations which have spread to ordinary law abiding motorcyclists and citizens who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, as well as tradesman who have to explain who all their friends are and what those friends do.

Bike rider and tradie here. Never had to have the conversation you mention.

Law abiding citizen who lists bike riding tradies as friends and associates, yet I have no fear of the laws you are scaremongering.

I guess you lay with dogs, you get fleas.

Anyone truely believe that these groups mentioned as Criminal MC Associations, the Hells Warriors or Odins Rebels, or whatevers, are honest, law abiding community groups? You are not able to be a part of these groups on a weekend and cry your an upstanding Honest Joe, Monday to Friday.

monte.b · 26-01-2014, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai_Chris

So lets go back to a left wing do good society that spent all our money. Let all the bad guy's go free, let all the wrong people stay, and have left a world where a young bloke and his girlfriend can't go out for drink with their mates without being killed or glassed in the face!

I am sorry guys. But I for one hope the laws extend to dole bludger's, bogan's, people who resort to road rage, and the piece of **** 15y.o kid that want's to go me in the Ipswich mall because I wouldn't give him a smoke or money!!!

The problem with this country is that we lost our balls for standing up to what is right and just, and allowed the ******* left wing Labor/ Greens/ Independent do-gooder's of this country dictate to us what we can & can't do.. While kid's are running riot with no respect and moral compass. Simply because their parents have been allowed to bludge off the welfare system and stick needles in their arms!

You idiots that talk about the bad old Joh day's are either too young to remember, or are children of a father that was laid off for being too lazy & greedy to know what a good productive job was to realize that we were the envy of this nation....

We had the cheapest living standards. We could walk down the street safe. We had the cheapest petrol. The cheapest alcohol. And people came in drove's with truck's to get the cheapest cigarette's in the country! But no.. The union's and their socialist agenda simply didn't believe that it was ever enough?

Well QLD. You got what you wanted for nearly 20 years and only now we are feeling the pain from that stupid STUPID decision to let children run the show.. If you are winging now. Then don't blame the current government? They are just trying to clean up the mess that YOU left!!!! Are you happy. I mean seriously. Are you happy? You ****** it up for everyone. And if a few bikies getting what they deserves bother you. Then **** off to Afghanistan and tell your story to them!!!!

Thats just the best post ive ever read ,well done mate ,i agree absolutely and so do most real Queenslanders

superyob · 26-01-2014, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samurai_Chris

So lets go back to a left wing do good society that spent all our money. Let all the bad guy's go free, let all the wrong people stay, and have left a world where a young bloke and his girlfriend can't go out for drink with their mates without being killed or glassed in the face!

I am sorry guys. But I for one hope the laws extend to dole bludger's, bogan's, people who resort to road rage, and the piece of **** 15y.o kid that want's to go me in the Ipswich mall because I wouldn't give him a smoke or money!!!

The problem with this country is that we lost our balls for standing up to what is right and just, and allowed the ******* left wing Labor/ Greens/ Independent do-gooder's of this country dictate to us what we can & can't do.. While kid's are running riot with no respect and moral compass. Simply because their parents have been allowed to bludge off the welfare system and stick needles in their arms!

You idiots that talk about the bad old Joh day's are either too young to remember, or are children of a father that was laid off for being too lazy & greedy to know what a good productive job was to realize that we were the envy of this nation....

We had the cheapest living standards. We could walk down the street safe. We had the cheapest petrol. The cheapest alcohol. And people came in drove's with truck's to get the cheapest cigarette's in the country! But no.. The union's and their socialist agenda simply didn't believe that it was ever enough?

Well QLD. You got what you wanted for nearly 20 years and only now we are feeling the pain from that stupid STUPID decision to let children run the show.. If you are winging now. Then don't blame the current government? They are just trying to clean up the mess that YOU left!!!! Are you happy. I mean seriously. Are you happy? You ****** it up for everyone. And if a few bikies getting what they deserves bother you. Then **** off to Afghanistan and tell your story to them!!!!

I myself am no friend off the left and I think you have made some astute observations here. The only way that the left can attract votes is to support minorities and pander to their often obscene views. People run off at the mouth about that nasty wicked Joe, but forget all the benefits Qld enjoyed...

Franco Cozzo · 25-01-2014, 11:08 PM

^ Yeah no worries Rupert.

BHDOGS · 26-01-2014, 12:04 AM

Sounds like a good law actually if only they'd bring that into private venues would help us security guys out alot

superyob · 26-01-2014, 12:09 AM

I have yet to hear of anyone who is an ordinary law abiding citizen like me being caught up in these laws. The police are not stupid.

I love how people decry these laws yet every raid on criminal groups seems to turn up a cache of weapons, drugs or huge amounts of cash... and still people moan about how innocents will be caught up...

Please correct me if I am wrong...

csv8 · 26-01-2014, 12:21 AM

superyob..check the thread in the Two Wheels section for people unfairly targetted.

ford man xf · 26-01-2014, 12:38 AM

Queensland is seriously a weird place though, a lot of people I know who moved up there always comment how different (in a bad way) it is there.
Even the cops are getting in on the action, these guys were questioned on why they were handing out reading material and they are in a public place! And then when the guy is explaining to them that it is religious material, the look on the cops face is the look of intolerance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLFXhs3r3R0