How is the economy affecting you?

russxr67 · 23-02-2009, 09:51 PM

I work for myself in the construction industry as a ceramic tiler in Perth and have been self employed since 1988. I have never seen things so quiet on the work front in all my years.
Used to get around 10-15 calls a week thru the Yellow pages but that has trickled down to about 3 a week. Been quoting on jobs but not getting many as i am obviously being undercut. I value my work as being better than most in my profession but it seems atm that people are not interested in quality work ,just a bottom dollar figure. He who gives the lowest quote seems to get the job.
I refuse to bastardize my rates . I have moved them down accordingly but I refuse to work for wages. I have an apprentice as well in his second year and if things don't improve will have to lay him off. Anyone who has their own business will sypathise with this. It costs a truck load of money to have people work for you.

One of the biggest problemswe have is that the market is being inundated with offshore workers here on temporary visa's. They are working for some builders at rates that local guy's cannot compete with. I think the government needs to step in and send these people back home to protect what little work is filtering thru. In good times i can understand the need for these extra workers but the reality is they are no longer needed and don't spend any of their hard earned here.
Go home ,and let the local's who spend their money here enjoy the lifestyle we are accustomed to.

Thoughts and experiences welcome.
Russ

svo347 · 23-02-2009, 10:21 PM

Mate i worked for BHPBilliton in Ravensthorpe, i started there in construction(18mths) with GRD Kirfield, went back with United Group resources, mine maintenance(18mths) then jumped ship to bhp. Now 7 months on ive just been made redundant due to the economic turmoil. Nickel was at 54K p/ton now at around 12k/ton. I now see the squeeze as alot of construction jobs have been put on hold putting alot of people out of work, this in turn has flowed down to the small businesses and affecting them too. Flame me or not but i believe keep the jobs for the locals, send the 347's or 357 or whatever home ,

**Sorted** · 23-02-2009, 10:46 PM

Hasn't effected me at all, if not I am better off........

Lower Interest Rates, Cheaper Fuel, Bargains everywhere.........

I work in Insurance and as Houses are Cheaper to buy, Cars are Cheaper to buy and the Fires have scared the once un-insured and under-insured to actually look into their insurance I am run off my feet.

We had a $40,000 add in the Yellow Pages but now its only a $10,000 add as its not bring in as much New Business as it did as the Internet has take over.

In regards to Tradesman if any of our clients have a claim where they need some work done to their house we tell them to call 1300 ALL TRADES CLICK HERE as we are always getting complaints from our clients that Tradesman never show up.

Prime example was my parents wanted an air con system installed in there house, they called around to get some quotes from tradesman and out of the 6 they called only 2 turned up.

Out of those 2 - both were late BUT the one of them who was late called them and told them that they were going to be late...................

Tradesman usually tell our clients they will be over in the morning or the afternoon then they dont turn up or they come the next day - HOW HARD IS IT TO USE A MOBILE AND CALL TO SAY YOUR RUNNING LATE????

Anyway back to my parents, the tradie who was late quoted $7,000 and the tradie who was late but called to say he was going to be late quoted $10,000

They got the Air Con fitted by the guy who quoted $10,000 as they liked his work protocol.

Don'T get my started on Motor Smash Repairers who don't quote on business unless our client has a claim number.......................

russxr67 · 23-02-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorted

Hasn't effected me at all, if not I am better off........

Lower Interest Rates, Cheaper Fuel, Bargains everywhere.........

I work in Insurance and as Houses are Cheaper to buy, Cars are Cheaper to buy and the Fires have scared the once un-insured and under-insured to actually look into their insurance I am run off my feet.

We had a $40,000 add in the Yellow Pages but now its only a $10,000 add as its not bring in as much New Business as it did as the Internet has take over.

In regards to Tradesman if any of our clients have a claim where they need some work done to their house we tell them to call 1300 ALL TRADES CLICK HERE as we are always getting complaints from our clients that Tradesman never show up.

Prime example was my parents wanted an air con system installed in there house, they called around to get some quotes from tradesman and out of the 6 they called only 2 turned up.

Out of those 2 - both were late BUT the one of them who was late called them and told them that they were going to be late...................

Tradesman usually tell our clients they will be over in the morning or the afternoon then they dont turn up or they come the next day - HOW HARD IS IT TO USE A MOBILE AND CALL TO SAY YOUR RUNNING LATE????

Anyway back to my parents, the tradie who was late quoted $7,000 and the tradie who was late but called to say he was going to be late quoted $10,000

They got the Air Con fitted by the guy who quoted $10,000 as they liked his work protocol.

Don'T get my started on Motor Smash Repairers who don't quote on business unless our client has a claim number.......................

You should try your hand at this game sometime Sorted.
I too have been guilty of that but 99% of the time if i am inundated with work i will let the potential client know of how much work I have booked up and let them make the call as to whether they want to wait or not.

And,in most cases ,if I can't do the job,I will try and recommend someone ,of equal talent ,to tackle the job.

I am often not the cheapest and I make clients clear of that fact.

What does irk me is that sometimes you will spend countless hours with a client ,give them all of your idea's ,tell them what ,who ,how ,why and where to make the project happen and then they tell you they are going to use a friend of their mates who is a fireman that moonlights as a friggin tiler.
PLEASE........... It's time wasting phuckers like that make me have to bite my tongue.
I could write a novel,believe me. It ain't all wine and roses mate.

**Sorted** · 24-02-2009, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russxr67

What does irk me is that sometimes you will spend countless hours with a client ,give them all of your idea's ,tell them what ,who ,how ,why and where to make the project happen and then they tell you they are going to use a friend of their mates who is a fireman that moonlights as a friggin tiler.
PLEASE........... It's time wasting phuckers like that make me have to bite my tongue.
I could write a novel,believe me. It ain't all wine and roses mate.

Thats the problem right there,your quoting on a job, its a quote, its not a contract...............

We find the best quote, we issue cover when requested, we extend the payment due by date, we offer monthly payments, insurance contracts acts states we as the broker are not allowed to cancel cover unless the insurance company request it in writing which is usualy after 90 days from issue date without payment.

Then after 90 days we cancel the policy without payment, without the sale, being used for cover as they needed the insurance then and there...........they dont call and adivise they placed cover elsewhere.

We waste more time chasing payment, chasing the completed proposal form, sending a statement, an overdue statement, a letter saying the policy will be cancelled in 7 days and then a letter confirming the policy is cancelled.

BUT if we dont do that then we will not win as much new business as we do, you can't win them all but you have to try for them all, thats the game

Sam_Boss260 · 23-02-2009, 11:11 PM

I work in the IT industry, and things are fairly tight at the moment. Private enterprise, and even publicly listed companies are all sitting on their hands and not spending any money. They aren't saying "no" instead they are saying "not now".

So with that, our company is tightening the belt almost to strangling point. 8 people were laid off last year, and you have to question your job security from time to time.

So yeah, whilst interest rates and fuel are down, which is great to reduce expenses, my revenue is also down - hence the end result is me looking for a second job on the weekends.

**ebxr8240** · 23-02-2009, 11:12 PM

18 month's ago I got a quote to reno a bathroom in rental property..
The cheapest quote was $12k labour and I still had to pay for tiles, shower, bath, plumbing etc..
So we tidied it up ourselves with some grouting and fitted new vanity for $250...
I don't feel sorry for these guys as they where definitely making some $$$ when the times where good..
I feel for the guys that have been laid off ...

russxr67 · 23-02-2009, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

18 month's ago I got a quote to reno a bathroom in rental property..
The cheapest quote was $12k labour and I still had to pay for tiles, shower, bath, plumbing etc..
So we tidied it up ourselves with some grouting and fitted new vanity for $250...
I don't feel sorry for these guys as they where definitely making some $$$ when the times where good..
I feel for the guys that have been laid off ...

12k is a rip off.This is what you get IF you get one of the bathroom renovation companies to do the job.
They usually tack on 20% for each trade .

rodderz · 23-02-2009, 11:59 PM

I'm the busiest I have ever been atm, although I'm at the expansion stage. I'm about to put a qualified guy on (I have a 2nd yr apprentice) as I have had 3 months work ahead of me since probably June last year. The stress gets pretty bad at times due to having to be on the tools plus quoting/books etc but I also realise that I can't take things for granted and the jobs have to tee'd up in advance to keep the work flowing in.

I get probably over 10 enquiries per week from yellow pages/email/word of mouth and try to keep quoting even if busy. If people are happy with your service and sell job of your company most times they will wait. Also the jobs you knock back are ones you never get.

One thing I have found this year, regarding advertising, is that putting in a more detailed and colourful ad have resulted in getting enquiries from clients that require bigger jobs done and are willing to pay more $$ for a bigger and better job. I know that word of mouth jobs are always better to get, but when advertising having a good ad sorts the tyre kickers from the serious ones.

There are still a hell of a lot of people out there with loads of money, I guess the amount of work and people's willingness to spend it could also vary from city to city.

I also see youjr point too Russ. You get people shaft you on price and customers that use your quote or design to get cheaper quotes elsewhere. Or want to get the job done for cash but then hand you a cheque for the pre-gst price. Some trades would be worse than others, I spose tilers and plasterers have lately (here anyway) been popular with foreign workers, therefore cheaper.

russxr67 · 24-02-2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

I'm the busiest I have ever been atm, although I'm at the expansion stage. I'm about to put a qualified guy on (I have a 2nd yr apprentice) as I have had 3 months work ahead of me since probably June last year. The stress gets pretty bad at times due to having to be on the tools plus quoting/books etc but I also realise that I can't take things for granted and the jobs have to tee'd up in advance to keep the work flowing in.

I get probably over 10 enquiries per week from yellow pages/email/word of mouth and try to keep quoting even if busy. If people are happy with your service and sell job of your company most times they will wait. Also the jobs you knock back are ones you never get.

One thing I have found this year, regarding advertising, is that putting in a more detailed and colourful ad have resulted in getting enquiries from clients that require bigger jobs done and are willing to pay more $$ for a bigger and better job. I know that word of mouth jobs are always better to get, but when advertising having a good ad sorts the tyre kickers from the serious ones.

There are still a hell of a lot of people out there with loads of money, I guess the amount of work and people's willingness to spend it could also vary from city to city.

I also see youjr point too Russ. You get people shaft you on price and customers that use your quote or design to get cheaper quotes elsewhere. Or want to get the job done for cash but then hand you a cheque for the pre-gst price. Some trades would be worse than others, I spose tilers and plasterers have lately (here anyway) been popular with foreign workers, therefore cheaper.

I have been using the Yellow pages for over ten years and it flat out works. It ain't cheap though. I have an ad about the size of a business card in black and white and that is 4K.
I am about to expand my coverage via the net though and hopefully this will result in more enquiries.

Problem is that when these foreigners do depart,they will leave a legacy of their shoddy workmanship behind. There is a lot of product knowledge lacking with these individuals as well as knowing what the Australian Standards are in relation to tiling. It will,no doubt,rear it's ugly head soon enough.
The sad thing is that most people don't realise that once these people leave there is no recourse,no warranty as such. You paid cheap,you got cheap.

schnoods · 24-02-2009, 12:38 AM

I am a boilermaker, here in Perth, I have never seen it this bad (even through the 90's with my old man).

Now that the workshops are all pretty much down to 38 hr weeks, and all the cancelled shutdowns and smaller maintenance crews on site, throw into the mix the lack of major construction jobs and there is now a oversupply of labour in my field.

Now i have found 8 days work this year throwing my name at everything to no avail.

I am 24 and there are people with decades more experience getting ahead of me due to the over abundance of boilermakers, they can pick and choose.

I rang a firm (who i had worked for before) and was questioning why i didnt get a look into. They replied they had recieved over 150 applicants and the people they hired were people who had worked numerous years at that firm that got the nod....

Will be the hardest 2 years of my life if i dont get out of the metal game.... or start my own business....

gtfpv · 24-02-2009, 12:29 AM

i sympathise with small businesses at this time . hope it picks up soon guys . the last thing we need is massive undercutting by competiters . that just sends everybody broke.

gtfpv · 24-02-2009, 12:40 AM

i would just like to add , in defence of professional trade tilers .

a friend of mine got his fellow prison officer workmate ( TILER ON THE SIDE) to tile his floor at ( mates rates) . my friends WIFE, weighs about the same as a FORD FESTIVA - with spare tyre removed. the bouncing floor had a domino effect on popping tiles . the poor guy had to pay twice for the job .

AND THE 2ND TIME . he used a proffessional. ( god i hope my friend isn't a member here).

ea90gl · 24-02-2009, 01:28 AM

Try getting an electrical apprenticeship, done a course with a big group training organisation here in Adelaide thinking they will find us host employers no worries. The pre apprenticeship course was completed towards the end of November last year and we are still waiting for them to find us something. We all got great results and were punctual etc etc. All the ringing/hunting/applying around by myself has led to nothing so far and I always hear the same thing, economy this economy that. It's getting frustrating but hey what can ya do. If I done what I have been doing say 9 months ago I would have been on my way to becoming a 2nd year apprentice by now.

russxr67 · 24-02-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtfpv

i would just like to add , in defence of professional trade tilers .

a friend of mine got his fellow prison officer workmate ( TILER ON THE SIDE) to tile his floor at ( mates rates) . my friends WIFE, weighs about the same as a FORD FESTIVA - with spare tyre removed. the bouncing floor had a domino effect on popping tiles . the poor guy had to pay twice for the job .

AND THE 2ND TIME . he used a proffessional. ( god i hope my friend isn't a member here).

These are the some of the pricks in the trade that make it difficult for me to score jobs and usually the nett result is one that is of poor quality.

Sadly,I have seen this scenario dozens of times. Product knowledge and skill takes years to aquire . There are no regulations in regards to tilers.Anyone who can mix a bucket a glue is an instant pro.
I hope your mate learnt a valuable lesson.

grey_esp · 24-02-2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russxr67

These are the some of the pricks in the trade that make it difficult for me to score jobs and usually the nett result is one that is of poor quality.

Sadly,I have seen this scenario dozens of times. Product knowledge and skill takes years to aquire . There are no regulations in regards to tilers.Anyone who can mix a bucket a glue is an instant pro.
I hope your mate learnt a valuable lesson.

My shoe is on the other foot on this one. I dont mean to offend you mate, but over the past 5 or so years of the boom how much did you increase your rate by?

I got a quote to have some tiles laid a little over 12 months ago (maybe 18) $45/m which was about twice the price I could get laminate flooring laid for at the time, and was about the same price per/m as the tile itself.
I went and got some quotes a couple of weeks ago having saved the money and recently purchased the same tile (a fair bit cheaper on sale, but the retail price was still the same) quotes to have them laid now are $65/m (and i did get a quote from the same guy). Now my pay hasnt increased by 50% in the last 18 months. Fuel has gone down, interest rates are down, So how does that work?

Isnt the term "Cashed up bogan" born out of the boom and all these tradies who have been making a killing charging what ever that wanted because they could then going and blowing it on cars and boats and bikes etc.

All that aside, when it comes down to it, If it didnt cost so much to get things done, then more people could afford to do it. Then alot of tradies would still have a lot of work. I can appreciate what your saying about imported labour, and there is no way Im paying someone who cant even speak english to do anything on my place.

Im going to lay them myself. I can afford to make a lot of mistakes for $65/m

gazza414 · 24-02-2009, 03:54 PM

Our largest trading partner Japan just last week announced that their economy had contrated by 14% in the last month

there are hard times ahead.

look at the steel industry too...its almost at a standstill with reported stockpiles of 500,000 tonnes at Port Kembla. NSW as has been reported.

Look what Honda and Vauxhall has done to their workforce in the UK.

we are going to be looking at a very different situation in 6 to 9mths as the fallout continues I'd suggest for the majority of working folks.... and many have had to put retirement plans on hold as investments collapse.

gazza414 · 24-02-2009, 03:56 PM

Its great to hear some are doing better than most... those who are in the public service arent aware there is a financial crisis.

Those like me who work for large multi national companies know all too well.

russxr67 · 24-02-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grey_esp

My shoe is on the other foot on this one. I dont mean to offend you mate, but over the past 5 or so years of the boom how much did you increase your rate by?

I got a quote to have some tiles laid a little over 12 months ago (maybe 18) $45/m which was about twice the price I could get laminate flooring laid for at the time, and was about the same price per/m as the tile itself.
I went and got some quotes a couple of weeks ago having saved the money and recently purchased the same tile (a fair bit cheaper on sale, but the retail price was still the same) quotes to have them laid now are $65/m (and i did get a quote from the same guy). Now my pay hasnt increased by 50% in the last 18 months. Fuel has gone down, interest rates are down, So how does that work?

Isnt the term "Cashed up bogan" born out of the boom and all these tradies who have been making a killing charging what ever that wanted because they could then going and blowing it on cars and boats and bikes etc.

All that aside, when it comes down to it, If it didnt cost so much to get things done, then more people could afford to do it. Then alot of tradies would still have a lot of work. I can appreciate what your saying about imported labour, and there is no way Im paying someone who cant even speak english to do anything on my place.

Im going to lay them myself. I can afford to make a lot of mistakes for $65/m

I'm guessing the tiles in question were of a rectified nature or polished porcelain ?? What size were they? It does make a difference to the price.

BTW,laminate flooring is crap. It costs $20 per m2 for a reason.Scratch it and it's ruined.

Jesk · 24-02-2009, 07:10 AM

well, I'm in Adelaide as a first year apprentice mechanic, the bloke I work for is absolutely run off his feet, hes taken on another bloke which brings the workshop up to 3 trademen and 1 apprentice, and we are still booked out more then a week in advance, Its a small business that takes pride in its work, but still doesnt charge like dealerships so we get quite a few people that are fed up with customers looking for a mechanic who doesnt get into their wallet and get out when empty.

mowog · 24-02-2009, 07:27 AM

I am doing fine I have a job interest rates are down so its all good.

My wife runs a small dressmaking business and she is busier than normal for this time of year one thing she has noticed is people take a little longer to pay for their items. One of the factors for her is repairs and alterations on older garments. So people aren't buying as much new stuff but the flip side is they are fixing older garments.

Cam · 24-02-2009, 07:34 AM

How has it affected me?

I work in IT for a contractor for ABC Learning, seeing as ABC are not doing so great and there is little job security.....

So... I went out and got a better paying IT job, happy days!

falconboy · 24-02-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cam

I work in IT

You poor bugger. Are you sick of it like I am?

In regards to the economy though, luckily I service home users mainly, and even though they are fairly tough times, most people will not, or can not go without their computer and internet, so I'm still getting some work - if anything, I think the last few months have been busier than usual.

Cam · 24-02-2009, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconboy

You poor bugger. Are you sick of it like I am?

I don't mind it, it pays the bills until the missus goes back to work! I am moving into a more project management based role, which is the sort of thing I like to do. The Systems / Network admin is getting a lil boring

sleep:

Spudz27 · 24-02-2009, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cam

How has it affected me?

I work in IT for a contractor for ABC Learning, seeing as ABC are not doing so great and there is little job security.....

So... I went out and got a better paying IT job, happy days!

My mrs works for ABC but her centre has 80 or more kids so their jobs are safe.

As for myself the people need what I do. I sell and refill new, compat and refill printer carts. Because people are feeling the pinch we are making more money. Our prices are the same as always been, but people want to refill their laser and inks not buy new and people/businesses need printers.

To the guy who worked in Ravy. I think it will be some time before the small businesses feel the full on effect of the mine closure. We are in ravy once a month and business there hasn't dropped off yet

gcg2503 · 24-02-2009, 07:37 AM

Rates in my industry (work for banks/investment banks on credit risk / regulatory risk system projects) and work as a contractor being paid a daily rate

These rates have dropped by 10-15% on average across all banks (retail and investment banks jointly)

This leads to a decrease in gross pay of $50k per year. Quite scary but it just goes to show how overpaid we were to begin with

I dont see any recovery in Oz till 2010 at the earlest :(

ZA-289 · 24-02-2009, 08:16 AM

I got made redundant :(

But it was a crap job anyway so I'm not to upset, just MAKES me find a better job.

MITCHAY · 24-02-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZA-289

I got made redundant :(

But it was a crap job anyway so I'm not to upset, just MAKES me find a better job.

X2 but the problem is the jobs aren't there :(

My second job (now my only one) I have is quiet as hell too

:

gtfpv · 24-02-2009, 09:47 AM

well a mate works at the ports. he says that the ports are now feeling? seeing the effects of the downturn . the ports were always full of containers . now they are clearing out and there is empty space. 30 - 50% downturn . in the passed recessions were almost unnoticable at the ports .

my wife works 2 days a week 5 hours a day. her and the boss agreed for her to work 6 hours instead of 5. and the 6th hour will be paid at over time because it is over her hours contract of 5. without notice , they stopped paying the 6th hour at OT rate. and said . take it or leave it . they have the right to drop her back to 5 hours . but thats not the point . the point is shes taken a pay cut . like any others.

big_waity · 24-02-2009, 10:15 AM

My work has dropped off heaps!
I work in car transport. No-one is buying new cars so cars don't need to be moved. I am earning between half and a third of what I was. Has made a really big change to what I can spend. Too add to the fun for me, the wife is pregnant so isn't working. Overall, our average income has dropped in the last 2 months by about 95k a year! That hurts!