Time for a new engine?

Sundeep · 30-08-2005, 04:37 PM

Hey guys,

Me and Doug got crackin' on the head gasket on Sunday and got it all fixed up sweet, along with all the annoying exhaust leaks. It was running all sweet, but then out nowhere while driving normally there was popping noise and then like chinking sound. Not cool.

Anyways, it's turned out to be the timing case. The chain's been rubbing against due to being loose or something and it blew a hole in it. The car wont start, it cranks and sounds like it's got it's full compression still. I haven't checked if it's got spark or anything but I've hear of this same problem before, where a loose timing chain has caused the timing chain cover to break.

Can anyone say what might have happened before I pull it apart? Or should I just replace the motor and not worry about it? Pretty ****ed off because I've got the right injectors for the TB, a new Walbro fuel pump and was hoping I'd be putting it on a dyno this week!

I'm thinking it's a busted the dizzy shaft or something, because Doug reckons the chain looks like it's going side to side as you crank the motor. The hole is in about the spot of the dizzy sprocket thing. That could also explain the very SLIGHT knock that comes and goes as you crank.

:

Cheers,

Sundeep

STOKEB · 30-08-2005, 04:48 PM

hhhmmm If its just the dizzy and chain replace it but if the whole motor is stuffed do what doug did get your self another motor, But find out what engine will suit you best for the turbo setup.

dansedgli · 30-08-2005, 04:52 PM

Replace it.

Sundeep · 30-08-2005, 04:54 PM

Another quality, informed and helpful Dan post lol :P

Do the dizzy shafts break easy? I haven't really checked it out that much but the nothing broke inside the motor, it cranks easy and stuff.

Sundeep

dansedgli · 30-08-2005, 04:57 PM

Im here to help

How many K's does that engine have on it now?

Does it have decent compression in all cylinders? I thought it was F**ked??

The money spent fixing it can help replace it.

Sundeep · 30-08-2005, 05:01 PM

It's got about 350 on it. The pistons aren't original so it's had a reco somewhere along the line and it's got a EF head. I did a compression test on it when it was CFI straight gas (lol, hard to believe it ever was CFI straight gas) and it came up with top marks lol.

I can't be screwed changing it and I can't be screwed fixing it!

I just wanna drive it it looks sick...ssccccccchhhhttt du du du du.

Sundeep

dansedgli · 30-08-2005, 05:03 PM

Fix it!

old_mate · 30-08-2005, 05:09 PM

u sure the knocking isnt valves getting cosy with pistons? If the chain is that loose, maybe it missed a few teeth on the cam gear causing you to have a John like experience. And when it all got nasty thats what caused the hole....im only thinking worse case scenario

AU motor for sure

steven95falc · 30-08-2005, 05:10 PM

dude id fix it if its had a rebuild ill bet its just cam timing but i wouldnt crank it just incase you bend a valve and hole a piston ect cost ya jack if the ea covers are the same i have one at home if you pull it of the motor in the car its yours

saudia_man · 30-08-2005, 05:12 PM

Bring it to saudi ill help ya fix it!!!

SWOOP · 30-08-2005, 05:32 PM

junk it and get another engine built to cope ,

Im in same position atm ,got a complete turbo setup ready to bolt on , got a car thats half decent ,manual cammed etc 120@rears already and now Ive got cold feet

,I know if I boost it it will DIE and I cant justify spending even more E-series Dollars to blow it up:(

EFFalcon · 30-08-2005, 05:55 PM

do as doug did, AU engine.
my car cracked the timing case open, and apon removing the timing case, some hefty wear marks inside the case too.
if i had of been able to turn back the clock, i'd have a completely differnet engine in my car right now, its only a matter of time till this one is dead.

XplosiveR6 · 01-09-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

do as doug did, AU engine.
my car cracked the timing case open, and apon removing the timing case, some hefty wear marks inside the case too.
if i had of been able to turn back the clock, i'd have a completely differnet engine in my car right now, its only a matter of time till this one is dead.

why have you been through so many motors?

Rmyers · 30-08-2005, 06:14 PM

I'd just change the engine, it'd prolly end up being easier anyway :P

niko · 30-08-2005, 07:13 PM

better results ?

best thing ive done was move away from the ea motors onto a nice ed 4litre

InitialD · 30-08-2005, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niko

best thing ive done was move away from the ea motors onto a nice ed 4litre

Nick your a laugh :P

the 3.9 and 4.0's are the same style of motor, just slightly bigger pistons and different head modifications

:

Damo · 30-08-2005, 07:35 PM

You can have my motor Sunny. ;) I reckon you should just fix it, pull the head off and make sure everything is hunky dorey inside, then fix the chain and get a new cover and more boost.

sphell · 31-08-2005, 08:00 PM

sunny called me today and said that the dizzy gear shaft had busted off and smashed through the timing case, but it was still trapped inside the engine, which would probably explain the knocking sound when you crank it. I'm all for fixing it, cause after re-threading just about every exhaust manifold bolt, there is no way in hell I'm gonna undo them again!!!!!!

The motor went grouse though (for the 20mins we actually had it running)! It was smooth and didn't ping and had heaps of power. It was also quiet cause we fixed all the bloody annoying exhaust leaks. Once this is fixed it'll be sweet.

EFFalcon · 31-08-2005, 08:04 PM

do you know *why* it snapped?
that'd be more along the lines of what i'd wanna know.. don't want taht happening again!

INJECTED_250 · 31-08-2005, 08:18 PM

You will find that the auxually shaft has welded its self to the block... its a throwaway. That shaft doesnt have any bearings, it runs on a film of oil, if the tensioner/chain isnt released corectly, the tension on the chain holds the shaft hard against the block, when its running the shaft gets hot due to the friction and "Friction Welds" its self to the block.. the aux drive gear then snaps the front of the shaft all over.

Ive seen it hapen once before there was no way it was comming out..

(I have a CHEAP low k Au motor "less head" in geelong if u want it pm me)

sphell · 31-08-2005, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INJECTED_250

You will find that the auxually shaft has welded its self to the block... its a throwaway. That shaft doesnt have any bearings, it runs on a film of oil, if the tensioner/chain isnt released corectly, the tension on the chain holds the shaft hard against the block, when its running the shaft gets hot due to the friction and "Friction Welds" its self to the block.. the aux drive gear then snaps the front of the shaft all over.

Ive seen it hapen once before there was no way it was comming out..

(I have a CHEAP low k Au motor "less head" in geelong if u want it pm me)

damn, that sucks. That means more weekends I'll have to spend pulling out freakin engines lol! Would it have anything to do with the fact that the oil had heaps of water in it still from when it blew the headgasket, and that could have ruined the 'film of oil' around the shaft? Just seems weird cause we've done heaps of heads and cam changes etc and never release the tensioner.

Age182 · 31-08-2005, 08:42 PM

usually when ya take the head off ya ment to take the chain tentioner out of the drivers side of the block the put bak in once new head is on they tell me at work things can happen if its not done

niko · 31-08-2005, 08:46 PM

mik, then if thats the case why do i hardly ever see 4litres in for headgaskets or repairs compared to 3.9's

EFFalcon · 31-08-2005, 11:12 PM

if you never released the tensioner... did u simply pull the gear back up as hard as possible to put it back on?

galapogos01 · 01-09-2005, 12:41 AM

i've done it that way before.

or, sometimes the whole tensioner comes out when you try to undo the middle bolt. it releses the tension anyway, so it works for me.

Sundeep · 01-09-2005, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

if you never released the tensioner... did u simply pull the gear back up as hard as possible to put it back on?

Yep. Only done it about 6 or 7 times and it's worked a treat all those times. There's all these theories going around that you 'have to' machine the head, and 'have to' release the tension, and 'have to' get new bolts but out of all that you'd probably get about 10% more reliability than doing it without all that.

I'm thinking if INJECTED's theory is right, it happened because of contaminated oil, which we were about 2 minutes away from changing. Could it have welded itself on to the the thrust plate that holds it in place? The chain tension is spot on, and the timing lines up perfect. What a waste of good head gasket and 10 hours work getting it all right :o( I didn't think that shaft could break, I've got a spare and it's freakin thick as anything.

I've a found a damaged EL2 for $990 but it's pretty raped, couldn't salvage much besides the motor. Also found a EF motor and gearbox, which come with a whole lot of other parts for $550. If the motor's screwed I'll most likely be buying a wreck next week from auctions.

Sundeep

EFFalcon · 01-09-2005, 08:12 PM

i've only had the 1 bottom end in my car.
but 3 heads, first one was destroyed when the timing guides or similar failed... not exactly sure but there was plenty of wear on the inside of the timing case.

2nd head went when the vernier gear came apart, stopping the cam and spinning the pistons, whacking all the valves, bottom end still has a few noises that i'm not comfortabnle with, but head changes are old hat now lol.

hyperno_1979 · 02-09-2005, 12:33 AM

This is just my humble theory, but after reading all these horror stories about the 3.9 & 4.0 engines, i think i'll stick with my trusty 3.2. I only paid $800 for it so if it does go boom it's off to the dump and owes me nothing.

dansedgli · 02-09-2005, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hyperno_1979

This is just my humble theory, but after reading all these horror stories about the 3.9 & 4.0 engines, i think i'll stick with my trusty 3.2. I only paid $800 for it so if it does go boom it's off to the dump and owes me nothing.

So what was your theory?

:

TUFED6 · 02-09-2005, 08:38 AM

F##k rooting around with a busted *** old motor, ditch it and get another!

It's probably got a pile of shavings from the timing cover sitting in the sump now, so either way its coming apart. AU motor!

- John