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OzECruisers General Discussions E/N/D vehicles General Discussion ONLY. NO TECH THREADS |
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16-06-2006, 04:51 PM | #1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: Under the bonnet, trying to keep as clean as above!
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Now to start with i got told this today from the bloke who rebuilt my auto. he seems to know everything about every gearbox.
anyway when i picked it up he asked me if my car had a tranny cooler. i told him a had just bought one and that i was contremplating whether or not i still use the radiator aswell. heres where it gets interesting. he said EA-ED have barely any troubles with the oil core in the radiator breaking down, where as in the EF onwards it's a big problem. he said he replaces at least 1 radiator a week in these later model cars. then he said that the reason is because of the THERMO FANS. he was told that the electro magretic field produced by the fan motors induced a voltage into the radiator, which in turn causes electrolisys (or whatever it is) in turn breaking down the cores alot faster. then he continued to say that he had been talking to some ford dude about it and was told that 'apparently' they earth the 2 fan motors to the thermostat and this normally stops it happening. now i don't know if it's true but it makes sense to me as i have learnt all about that electrical crap. what do yas think? |
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16-06-2006, 05:38 PM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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no one else found that interesting? i'm about to put thermos on my car and i'm thinking about earthing them
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16-06-2006, 06:03 PM | #3 | ||
Banned
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Location: Ipswich QLD
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deff sounds interesting..if he went to all that effort to tell u the story u may as well earth them. Better to be safe than sorry bud :
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16-06-2006, 06:37 PM | #4 | ||
rofl copter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Werribee
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why dont u just use a trans cooler? save ur auto, and ur radiator! but interesting to know. btw, i have a transcooler if anyone wants to buy it has half the hoses too, the pipes from the tranny are stuffed :P
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16-06-2006, 07:22 PM | #5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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The mechanic is correct - stray electrical currents will eat out aluminium core radiators very quickly. Check out this link:
http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/straycurrent.htm |
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16-06-2006, 08:28 PM | #6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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interesting read i can atest too the power of electrolysis, a few years ago i was an owner driver of a semi , anyway after loosing coolant internally i found that one of the cylander liners had become porouse after after inspection the whole lot had too be replaced , it looked like wood borers had eaten the the liners, apparently diesels are more susseptable too electrolysis(static electricity), diesels use an additive too counter this problem, the earth strap sounds like a good idea
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16-06-2006, 08:34 PM | #7 | |||
AFF's 1st DM.......
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Cant see how when the fans are connected to a diode which inhibits back current.
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FORD GIVING POWER TO THE PEOPLE Alloy headed 347ci EDXR8 13.21 @107.7mph Quote:
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16-06-2006, 08:45 PM | #8 | ||
OzEcruisers PRESIDENT
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I heard something similar with regards to electrolysis but it was to do with putting a Aluminum Head on my Cast Iron Hemi 6.
Electrolysis can eat into the head and destroy it BUT it also was connected to using the wrong coolant or mixing it wrong...... To stop this from happening you had to add another earth to the block
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1994 Ford Fairmont EF NA 6cyl Man 3.9 diff Sedan PROEF 13.46 @ 105.78mph Tuned by DYNOMOTIVE 200BUX - AFF Drag Nats 2019 EF Wagon
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16-06-2006, 11:56 PM | #9 | |||
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Quote:
anything that has electrical current flowing through it generates a magnetic field, which can induce voltage on some things. |
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17-06-2006, 04:01 AM | #10 | |||
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Quote:
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17-06-2006, 11:13 AM | #11 | |||
Shoot.
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Quote:
But what's a "back EMF" : Or shouldn't I ask?
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18-06-2006, 05:53 PM | #12 | |||
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Quote:
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17-06-2006, 08:11 PM | #13 | |||
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Quote:
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18-06-2006, 05:49 PM | #14 | |||
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Quote:
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18-06-2006, 07:31 PM | #15 | ||
Man from Ironbark
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for every action , there is an equal and opposite reaction
[Law of relativity] Earth strap to block should be sufficient , as H20 is a conductor , and is always in contact with block |
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18-06-2006, 07:48 PM | #16 | ||
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Im an Electrician, Here are some facts
1, Electrolysis requires a liquid or paste and normally 2 dissimilar metals. 2, Ths induced EMF created by the Electric motors would be that small they would be insignificant. 3, I believe most of the housing is plastic so it may be difficult to earth the motor, and a waste of time as the motor is using the "Earth" or negative as a return for the circuit. 4 Ask your tranny technician to stick with tranny info. |
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18-06-2006, 08:06 PM | #17 | |||
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Quote:
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18-06-2006, 09:19 PM | #18 | |||
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Quote:
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18-06-2006, 09:40 PM | #19 | |||
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Quote:
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18-06-2006, 09:50 PM | #20 | |||
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Quote:
__________________
1994 Ford Fairmont EF NA 6cyl Man 3.9 diff Sedan PROEF 13.46 @ 105.78mph Tuned by DYNOMOTIVE 200BUX - AFF Drag Nats 2019 EF Wagon
Last edited by wulos; 19-06-2006 at 05:19 PM. Reason: fixed up the quoting.. |
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18-06-2006, 09:58 PM | #21 | ||
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yeah same. i just found it interesting.
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19-06-2006, 08:43 AM | #22 | ||
Regular Member
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I think it would be more a case of the Aluminium cored radiator not being earthed more than the themofans.
The after market Aluminium radiators i have seen for the E series have a earth strap that earths to the body or the engine. to stop this. As what has been said the fans wouldnt generate enough electricity. |
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19-06-2006, 05:47 PM | #23 | ||
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The actual process that you are talking about (one electrical source, transfering an electrical potential to another nearby conductive media) is actually called electrical induction. Electrolysis is a different thing altogether. (can go into describing that process in more depth if ya like - in short though is similar theory to how a battery works)
The thermo fans may well be a cause of earlier then expected failure. It would be more likely that the fans are allowing increased rates of 'heat cylcing', which is increasing metal fatigue, increased vibration levels shaking the crap loose. |
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19-06-2006, 06:38 PM | #24 | ||
SnortPerformance.com
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As opto said, the induced EMF created by the electrical motors is insignificant.
As svo347 said the fans are usualy conected to a diode that inhibits back current. I think you'll find that the problem with EF/EL radiator oil coolers is so much simpler. The reason is that the oil coolers in EF/EL had a copper mesh wound around the inside of the cooler, whereas the EA-ED coolers didn't. It is this copper mesh that is breaking down and travelling into the auto. This is proven in the amount of EA-ED auto falcons that have had EF/EL twin thermo fans fitted for a number of years that haven't had the problem. Putting these fans on earlier falcons is not a new idea there are plenty out there running fine. |
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20-06-2006, 12:27 AM | #25 | ||
Man from Ironbark
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Quote- [This is proven in the amount of EA-ED auto falcons that have had EF/EL twin thermo fans fitted for a number of years that haven't had the problem. Putting these fans on earlier falcons is not a new idea there are plenty out there running fine.]
Yep , no probs..steel heads etc./ go electrolysis , I and am not worried..... |
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20-06-2006, 07:27 AM | #26 | |||
SnortPerformance.com
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Quote:
This thread was originaly about EF/EL thermo fans inducing enough electrolysis to break down parts of the radiator. Also EB Pete you probably already know this but you mentioned something earlier on about alloy radiators. The standard radiators in these falcons is a steel core with some form of plastic tanks, they're not alloy. |
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20-06-2006, 04:35 PM | #27 | |||
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Quote:
does the coolent additive helped stop the electrolysis between the alloy head and cast block? |
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20-06-2006, 05:59 PM | #28 | ||
SnortPerformance.com
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I think the aditive does help a bit with that. The best fix I've heard for that problem is, as I think I have already posted, the earth strap from head to block. It would be a pretty easy fix too, I'm going to put one on my car pretty soon.
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25-06-2006, 11:16 AM | #29 | |||
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21-08-2007, 06:44 PM | #30 | ||
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I have had two radiators in 125k and have a concern that this one is not going to last. I have been investigating possible causes and have virtually narrowed it down to the fact that the core is not earthed. The action of the coolant with two disimilar materials ie the block is cast and the core alluminium will make a primative battery. And you get nothing for nothing so something has to go and being the softess the core is going to first. Therefore to halt the electrolitic action all it needs is an earth strap for the core. The same as with an aluminium hull of a boat or an outboard where you fit an anode. The anode in the car is the soft alluminum core. I have asked taxis and found out that they earth the raditor cores. So this weekend I will be grounding my radiator cores.
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