Vinyl Records. are making a comeback...

[vbvbvb088]

At your best guess... original pressings?

Me:

Albums:

Broderick Smith 'Last Train to Mobil Town"
Chisel 'Your 13 etc etc' (naughty)
Col Joye - 'Best Of'
John Swan - 'Days Gone By'
Unopened 'Barking Spiders'
The Seekers - double album at Myer Music Bowl

Singles:

USA for Africa
Do they know its Christmas
Careless Whisper - George Michael

..... and big collection of 17 inch(?) extended mixes..

Last Christmas (WHAM)
Careless Whisper (as above)
Se* Crimes - Eurythmics
Jimmy Barnes and Crowded House - 'Many Rivers to Cross'
Time Bandits

..and a box of heaps home made cassettes.

[poppa smurf]

they never went out.....I still have a massive collection starting from the late 60's til the 90's.

it is stated by "purists" that the sound quality is far better, my ears are buggered so I cant tell.

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

it is stated by "purists" that the sound quality is far better, my ears are buggered so I cant tell.

A "purist" load of drivel. How can essentially a mechanical device (a sharpened point traveling over little bumps) come up with a "pure" sound. Every time a track is played on a "record" the sound will to some minute extent change as the groove wears. A record has a fixed dynamic range where as a digital device is only limited by the machinery its played on.

This seems to be the same view as those that think old cars are better. Its just living in the past.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

A "purist" load of drivel. How can essentially a mechanical device (a sharpened point traveling over little bumps) come up with a "pure" sound. Every time a track is played on a "record" the sound will to some minute extent change as the groove wears. A record has a fixed dynamic range where as a digital device is only limited by the machinery its played on.

This seems to be the same view as those that think old cars are better. Its just living in the past.

not quite right I'm afraid, it's all to do with the way the initial recording was made.

the two mediums are totally different in the way the sound is portrayed.

vinyl captures the whole analogue sound and portrays the sound as it was meant to be heard, cd's merely make a digital "guess" as to what is there.

just have a little read of this to get what I mean

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm

there is a huge difference between the two and sound quality reflects this, given the two sound output devices are of similar quality.

not drivel.....fact.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

not quite right I'm afraid, it's all to do with the way the initial recording was made.

the two mediums are totally different in the way the sound is portrayed.

Not really. The sound of the very best of each medium is very similar.

vinyl captures the whole analogue sound and portrays the sound as it was meant to be heard, cd's merely make a digital "guess" as to what is there.

Complete nonsense and a myth.

Vinyl suffers from more audible artefacts than 16/44 ever will.

There have been countless blind tests over the years comparing master tapes to 16/44 digital and vinyl.
16/44 is always closer than vinyl, and virtually indistinguishable from the master tape.

just have a little read of this to get what I mean

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/question487.htm

If I had a penny for every time someone quotes a misleading article like this I'd be wealthy.
These kinds of articles rarely tell the full story, and are almost always skewed to one side.
DVD-A and SACD are pretty much redundant because they failed to deliver the supposed and promised superiority over regular 16/44 redbook CD.

Believe me, I went down the road of both.

there is a huge difference between the two and sound quality reflects this, given the two sound output devices are of similar quality.

No there is not.
There are small differences at the upper end of the spectrum.
IME experiences, vinyl always falls slightly short of state of the art, but for the most part, most people would not notice.

not drivel.....fact.

Sorry, but it is most certainly drivel.

FWIW, I have a massive collection of both CD's and vinyl. I also have many DVD-A's, and SACD's.
I have a modest vinyl rig worth approx $3000. My CD spinner is worth approx the same.
My CD spinner has far better performance than my vinyl system.
Much much more needs to be spent on a vinyl system to approach the level of 16/44.


PS, try this experiment sometime.
Capture your vinyl with a good 16/44 A/D converter, then burn it to CD and throw it in your CD spinner.
You know where this is going, get back to me with results, it will surprise you...

[TC200six]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

it is stated by "purists" that the sound quality is far better, my ears are buggered so I cant tell.

I hear that too. I think that might be a comparison with digital like mp3 files which are compressed.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by TC200six

I hear that too. I think that might be a comparison with digital like mp3 files which are compressed.

No, it's a comparison to CD.
MP3 is not in the running, except for casual listening.

The vinyl purists believe vinyl is where it's at and nothing sounds better. That's their call.

As I mentioned above, the best vinyl can sound superb, but it's also slightly different to CD, with a couple of artifacts which are always audible.
I believe it's these artifacts which make the sound more pleasing to those people.

CD is virtually indistinguishable from the original master tapes.

All in my opinion, of course.

[DJR-351]

I always found it interesting that when one of the pioneers of digital music was at home and wanted to listen to music, he listened to vinyl.....

He also had a sizable record collection which was the envy of the most ardent collector...

And yes, I prefer the sound (and look) of vinyl....

[vbvbvb088]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

I always found it interesting that when one of the pioneers of digital music was at home and wanted to listen to music, he listened to vinyl.....

He also had a sizable record collection which was the envy of the most ardent collector...

And yes, I prefer the sound (and look) of vinyl....

I have a 'Thorn' record player (Dad's) that dropped albums when finished. 16/33/45/78....

[Sox]

I play with this stuff for a living...

Records are not making a comeback, they really never went away totally, and have remained a very tiny niche market.
They will always be a tiny niche market.

As for the sound quality, they of course can sound superb with the right equipment.
I've only heard a handful of vinyl rigs that can approach the sound quality of 16/44 digital, that is, CD, and they were all well over $15,000, with the CD spinner typically no more than 2-4k.

I've never heard a vinyl system surpass the performance of CD.

IMO it's not possible technically, and my listening experiences have proved that to myself.

[poppa smurf]

so who writes these reports, and they are everywhere on the net, this was only one place that I quoted, there are literally hundreds out there saying the same thing, surely they are not all wrong

if they are so wrong why are they not brought into disrepute.

I don't listen to vinyl, I dont have a record player but I refuse to poo poo those that do and will rigorously defend the difference.

my mate still reckons 8 track is the way to go. LOL!

[Sox]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

so who writes these reports,

No idea, it's the internet, so I'm guessing every man and his dog.

and they are everywhere on the net, this was only one place that I quoted, there are literally hundreds out there saying the same thing, surely they are not all wrong

Have you seen how much misinformation is on the internet? It's rampant.

if they are so wrong why are they not brought into disrepute.

Like all the other millions of bogus articles on every other subject on the web?

I don't listen to vinyl, I dont have a record player but I refuse to poo poo those that do and will rigorously defend the difference.

I'm not poo pooing anything or anyone.
I have no issue with vinyl or the people who listen to it.

But facts are facts.

my mate still reckons 8 track is the way to go. LOL!

[Nikked]

Sound used to be recorded analogue, in the "Old" days, recordings were done onto real-to-real tape, this gave off a warmer, natural sound.

Of course, when it came to put these recordings onto a sellable medium, Vinyl was the best, as it captured the sound from the R2R tape perfectly...and was a problem when CD's were released as the recordings were initially not masted for digital processing...


Things changed a little with DAT replacing reel-to-reel tape...and albums being mastered in a digital format...


But still there are many Rock and blues artists that still sware by analogue recording, mastering and playback...and god bless them because there are too many kids with laptops creating blandly produced digital music...


Even some digital recordings I have on CD and Vinyl, the Vinyl still comes out on top...yummy warmth...

Oh...CD's aren't perfect, scratches, the top foil flaking off and the laser eventually eats away the disk.

[MarkAW]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

so who writes these reports, and they are everywhere on the net, this was only one place that I quoted, there are literally hundreds out there saying the same thing, surely they are not all wrong

if they are so wrong why are they not brought into disrepute.

There are many out there who just agree with something that they read whether its true or not, and will go to the effort of writing supporting material just to maintain they're own ideals. At least with Wiki, you're more likely to have unsupported fact torn down than in other blerbs. That's not to say that Wiki is a 100% factual.

I never believe in anything thats written or shown on TV unless it has the evidence to go with it - and yes this includes newspapers, religeon and ACA

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by MarkAW

There are many out there who just agree with something that they read whether its true or not, and will go to the effort of writing supporting material just to maintain they're own ideals. At least with Wiki, you're more likely to have unsupported fact torn down than in other blerbs. That's not to say that Wiki is a 100% factual.

I never believe in anything thats written or shown on TV unless it has the evidence to go with it - and yes this includes newspapers, religeon and ACA

oh dear! ...you have just shattered my belief in the electronic media......

this debate has been running for as long as the VHS beta thing........always guaranteed to get a rise from someone.

[Fev]

Picked this up from Amoeba records when I was in LA in July.




Also have other Hendrix, Alice Cooper, Queen, AFI (purple edition, black sails album), Iwrestledabearonce and more on vinyl
Last vinyl I got was the new Queens of the Stone Age record. Can't stop listening to that album!

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Fev

Picked this up from Amoeba records when I was in LA in July.
image
image
image

Also have other Hendrix, Alice Cooper, Queen, AFI (purple edition, black sails album), Iwrestledabearonce and more on vinyl
Last vinyl I got was the new Queens of the Stone Age record. Can't stop listening to that album!

my mate smoked heaps of bongs listening to that stuff...

[burnz]

I prefer vinyl to CD...
on the old record they sounded sort of raw where the remade CD sounded touched up.
and some early one's were not good when hissing (exposes analogue limit).

the newer CD's recorded in a digital studio sound a lot better.

[Fev]

Yeah there is a sort of very very quiet mellow distortion that adds some depth to the sound.

[302 XC]

I get vinyl records to line the toy room,some album covers are excellent,picked up ZZ tops eliminator, Hendricks experience,CCRs golden greats from the local tip,not a mark on them,scored Led Zeps "Song remains the same" double LP for a measly coupla bucks,yep pin them on the wall,excellent subject matter
Wont go into what sounds better,grew up around reel to reel, records,cassettes,CDs,MP3,ipods,its all a noise when your working away,dont have time to sit and listen for best quality

[superyob]

Ask any DJ what sounds better, and they will say vinyl...

[Sox]

Originally Posted by superyob

Ask any DJ what sounds better, and they will say vinyl...

Which doesn't really mean much.

It's like asking your 106yo grandmother to do a comparison between a GT Falcon and a HSV Commodore.

Neither are qualified.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Sox

Which doesn't really mean much.

It's like asking your 106yo grandmother to do a comparison between a GT Falcon and a HSV Commodore.

Neither are qualified.

The DJs I have asked were actually from the digital age. They all preferred to play vinyl because they did not have to crank up the gain in order to get great sound from their systems. I'd say that's more qualified than you or me as I have no idea what gain is and neither do you I suspect...

[Sox]

Originally Posted by superyob

The DJs I have asked were actually from the digital age.

It doesn't matter where they're from, they typically have little knowledge of absolute quality of sound.

They all preferred to play vinyl because they did not have to crank up the gain in order to get great sound from their systems.

If that's the reason they're giving, then it's absurd as the notion that they are qualified to judge which is the superior format.

I'd say that's more qualified than you

I doubt that very much, I've been in the audio industry for as long as I can remember.
I have a reasonable handle on things these days.

or me as I have no idea what gain is and neither do you I suspect...

Gain is simply the measure of how much an output is increased over the input.
Typically measured in dB.

There are other contexts in which the term gain may be used.
For instance the volume control on an amplifier can often be labelled 'gain'.


Moving on, DJ's have their place and skills in the world, as we all do, however they are most certainly not qualified (generally speaking) to judge the differences between top flight vinyl and CD.
Not many people are, the high end audio scene is very small indeed.

I'm guessing the vast majority of the population have never auditioned a $2000 turntable, let alone a $20,000 turntable and a system to realise it's potential.
This is what's required to get close to the performance of a ~$3000 CD player.

[superyob]

Originally Posted by Sox

It doesn't matter where they're from, they typically have little knowledge of absolute quality of sound.

If that's the reason they're giving, then it's absurd as the notion that they are qualified to judge which is the superior format.

I doubt that very much, I've been in the audio industry for as long as I can remember.
I have a reasonable handle on things these days.

Gain is simply the measure of how much an output is increased over the input.
Typically measured in dB.

There are other contexts in which the term gain may be used.
For instance the volume control on an amplifier can often be labelled 'gain'.


Moving on, DJ's have their place and skills in the world, as we all do, however they are most certainly not qualified (generally speaking) to judge the differences between top flight vinyl and CD.
Not many people are, the high end audio scene is very small indeed.

I'm guessing the vast majority of the population have never auditioned a $2000 turntable, let alone a $20,000 turntable and a system to realise it's potential.
This is what's required to get close to the performance of a ~$3000 CD player.

I humbly bow before your superior audio knowledge...

[xtremerus]

Originally Posted by Sox

I'm guessing the vast majority of the population have never auditioned a $2000 turntable, let alone a $20,000 turntable and a system to realise it's potential.
This is what's required to get close to the performance of a ~$3000 CD player.

Just a question, Sox.
I can understand the cost of a good turntable to get the best from vinyl, But why does a Cd player, that you say can be up to $3000, have to be so expensive to be a good one .
After all, they only have to read 0 an I.

If top quality Amps are used for both, the majority of people wouldn't tell the difference.

[arronm]

This says it all

[cs123]

Audiophiles, wine experts, car care products... There are so many things I just don't get into as much as some.

I don't miss vinyl at all.

[Bearman]

I was into high end, or high-ish at least hi fi in my younger days.

My ears are nowhere near as critical now that I'm old and half deaf!!

I had a really good setup most of which lived in the wardrobe for the last 10 years. Recently moved on my old Rega turntable and Denon CD player. The big mutha Denon intergrated amp is still with me hooked up to the tv and DVD. Rarely is used. My old AR speakers are now with a mate and need to be re-coned. I also had a Nakamichi tape deck now long gone. Still have my Kenwood deck which is/was a more basic unit meant to be a daily thrasher.

I seriously loved my old Teac X1000 reel to reel, it's long gone. I love that format most of all.

Now it's just the car stereo and my iPod!!

[Iggypoppin']

My old man has about 5,000 vinyls, lots of them are first presses and in their original packaging, never played. He always bought two of everything so he had one for himself and one to play at parties but he always played the party ones at home anyway. Now his collection is probably worth as much as our house. Lucky it's stored in secure storage though.