EV policy by federal government and the states

[happy1]

Hi,
Prime minister Morrison's EV strategy was rather disappointing. Not much details in there. No new emission standards etc, no GST exemption or other incentives to steer the public towards non-ICE vehicles. (other than the charging stations and liquid hydrogen distribution support).

But it was interesting to see individual states adding their policies, such as this one for NSW:

https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-release...hicle-strategy

In comparison, in Norway the EVs have been tax free, GST free, free charging many places, free toll roads, and access to bus lanes. Whilst petrol / diesel fuel have been heavily taxed, both at the pumps, and for purchasing the vehicles.

Interesting to see if some of the other states will follow NSW.

Cheers,

[burnz]

the market will decide what gets driven, NSW won't give a free lunch when it comes to tax..

TOLL, extra rego, pay as you go..
ICE cars pay 50% on petrol and rego tax by weight.

[Wretched]

Australia has no policy, states have no policy. They just left it to the last minute and scrambled something together to make it look like they did some work. It is embarrassing.

[xxx000]

Future Fuels Strategy or FFS.

Oh the irony.
The producers of the show Utopia must be having a chuckle at this announcement. It's as though the Govt lifted the name from the show.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by happy1

Hi,
Prime minister Morrison's EV strategy was rather disappointing. Not much details in there. No new emission standards etc, no GST exemption or other incentives to steer the public towards non-ICE vehicles. (other than the charging stations and liquid hydrogen distribution support).

But it was interesting to see individual states adding their policies, such as this one for NSW:

https://www.nsw.gov.au/media-release...hicle-strategy

In comparison, in Norway the EVs have been tax free, GST free, free charging many places, free toll roads, and access to bus lanes. Whilst petrol / diesel fuel have been heavily taxed, both at the pumps, and for purchasing the vehicles.

Interesting to see if some of the other states will follow NSW.

Cheers,

Here's an idea, pay for your own electric car

EV subsidies are middle class welfare, why should you get a discount on your Tesla?

Tell you what though this COP26 thing, made my hydrogen shares increase 15-30% day on day consecutively, I'm up 235% in about a week.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Here's an idea, pay for your own electric car

Flogging a dead horse with these types

Blaming the Govt for not allowing them a new toy. now that's embarrassing

[deesun]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Here's an idea, pay for your own electric car

We never paid for our ICE cars after so many subsidies to Holden Ford and Toyota to manufacture here.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by deesun

We never paid for our ICE cars after so many subsidies to Holden Ford and Toyota to manufacture here.

Those subsidies were to support a workforce here in Australia. not to make the car cheaper.

next?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Those subsidies were to support a workforce here in Australia. not to make the car cheaper.



next?

They go hand in hand. The price of the car would have had to be higher without the subsidies or they would've just shut shop earlier.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by deesun

How soon you forget, ever heard of an FG EcoLPi. Great reviews, waayyy too late to market. Ford behind the 8 ball again.

What did that have to do with what I posted?

Ever heard of it

I looked over the xr6 Turbo LPI prototype, and must have driven dozens of LPI powered company vehicles.

Behind the 8 ball? Please name another company that actually made an LPI vehicle. It was a world first.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Here's an idea, pay for your own electric car

EV subsidies are middle class welfare, why should you get a discount on your Tesla?

I completely agree! Open market. I want no handouts to get into an EV. Similarly, I don't want any Road Tax usage tax because I found a way around fuel excise. In fact, scrap any subsidies for Fossil Fuels whilst we're at it too. Lets all pay the exact price that things should cost! I've paid more in LCT and GST than many do on buying a car.

I even skipped claiming the $3000 price reduction on our most recent purchase as if you take it up, you have to pay a road tax in 2027. Bugger that. They are grandfathering the "no road tax" for cars that didn't get incentives. Win!

[b0son]

Originally Posted by kypez

I completely agree! Open market. I want no handouts to get into an EV. Similarly, I don't want any Road Tax usage tax because I found a way around fuel excise.

The fuel excise is essentially that though, even if it's tied to fuel use. How else do we fund the road network? Especially once we all go EV? Ditch all excises and just slug it via rego, and tie it to contribution toward road maintenance based on propensity for road damage?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by b0son

The fuel excise is essentially that though, even if it's tied to fuel use. How else do we fund the road network? Especially once we all go EV? Ditch all excises and just slug it via rego, and tie it to contribution toward road maintenance based on propensity for road damage?

Its a federal tax. Just like LCT and GST. I've paid more in LCT and GST on the cars than many pay on fuel in a couple of decades. I think they can use some of that for Roads! I've just prepaid the excise.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by kypez

Its a federal tax. Just like LCT and GST. I've paid more in LCT and GST on the cars than many pay on fuel in a couple of decades. I think they can use some of that for Roads! I've just prepaid the excise.

relevance?? everybody whom has bought an expensive car by choice pays.. EV/ICE same same.

ICE should not be used to subsidies EV!

[kmav23]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Here's an idea, pay for your own electric car

EV subsidies are middle class welfare, why should you get a discount on your Tesla?

Tell you what though this COP26 thing, made my hydrogen shares increase 15-30% day on day consecutively, I'm up 235% in about a week.

Why do you think other developed and even some developing countries have EV subsidies?

China, America and many wealthy European nations.

It's good for their economy and society.

There are many subsidies in farming, mining, and th car industry in Australia.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kmav23

Why do you think other developed and even some developing countries have EV subsidies?

China, America and many wealthy European nations.

It's good for their economy and society.

There are many subsidies in farming, mining, and th car industry in Australia.

Because they're a bunch of virtue signalling flogs, too busy having their elites flying to climate conferences in private jets to lecture everyone on what they should be doing, are these the same European nations that encouraged diesel vehicles because they were 'cleaner'?

'Developing countries' - the world's second largest economy isn't a 'developing country' regardless of what the official documents say or what they claim

People in developing nations will care about the environment when they don't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from - that's the real way to improve response to environmental issues without needing to throw money at the middle class for a shiny new toy in developed western countries.

Then there's the next one, one of the biggest contributors to climate/environmental issues is global population, when are we going to address this elephant in the room? (Looking at you China and India)

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Why does every thread on here that talks about EVs turn into a bunfight between the proponents and opponents?

Can't we just have a mature discussion discussing the merits of the topic for once?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Why does every thread on here that talks about EVs turn into a bunfight between the proponents and opponents?

Can't we just have a mature discussion discussing the merits of the topic for once?

Because it's a politically motivated topic, this thread is about government policy on EV so straight off the bat it involves this discussion.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Why does every thread on here that talks about EVs turn into a bunfight between the proponents and opponents?

Can't we just have a mature discussion discussing the merits of the topic for once?

Some people are too resistant to change no matter how inevitable or advantageous to them it would be. Even worse is being told they have to do it. Seen a lot those types lately.

[stevefreestyle]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Here's an idea, pay for your own electric car

EV subsidies are middle class welfare, why should you get a discount on your Tesla?

Tell you what though this COP26 thing, made my hydrogen shares increase 15-30% day on day consecutively, I'm up 235% in about a week.

100% Spot on !!

Notwithstanding the smug and sanctimonious ideological preaching of the radical Green Left, the only reason the market adopt Green Cars & Energy (solar Panels etc) is through the discriminatory and fundamentally unfair application of heavy Government Financial Incentives - resulting in a serious Market Distortion. They then hypocritically spin this contrived distortion, and say "look - see how much support and popularity Green products have....."

The fact is that EV cars have numerous and huge negatives (no pun intended) - including far greater energy intensive construction (ironically), higher use of rare & highly Toxic metals (Battery) et al. and are manifestly unsuited to the REALITIES of Australia.

[hackney]

Originally Posted by stevefreestyle

100% Spot on !!

Notwithstanding the smug and sanctimonious ideological preaching of the radical Green Left, the only reason the market adopt Green Cars & Energy (solar Panels etc) is through the discriminatory and fundamentally unfair application of heavy Government Financial Incentives - resulting in a serious Market Distortion. They then hypocritically spin this contrived distortion, and say "look - see how much support and popularity Green products have....."

The fact is that EV cars have numerous and huge negatives (no pun intended) - including far greater energy intensive construction (ironically), higher use of rare & highly Toxic metals (Battery) et al. and are manifestly unsuited to the REALITIES of Australia.

Try telling that to any EV owner!That would not go down well @ all.Did you not know that they are ‘saving’ the planet!They all so sleep better @ night because it gives them that ‘warm & fuzzy’ feeling!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by stevefreestyle

100% Spot on !!

Notwithstanding the smug and sanctimonious ideological preaching of the radical Green Left, the only reason the market adopt Green Cars & Energy (solar Panels etc) is through the discriminatory and fundamentally unfair application of heavy Government Financial Incentives - resulting in a serious Market Distortion. They then hypocritically spin this contrived distortion, and say "look - see how much support and popularity Green products have....."

The fact is that EV cars have numerous and huge negatives (no pun intended) - including far greater energy intensive construction (ironically), higher use of rare & highly Toxic metals (Battery) et al. and are manifestly unsuited to the REALITIES of Australia.

Eh? We had no incentives in Australia for EV's till a month ago.

I think you might want to research into Fossil Fuel subsidies in Australia. Would you like for Petrol/Diesel to be priced at exactly what they should be without Subsidies as well then? What about the years of Subsidies that we got on Ford and Holden locally? Think you'll find that EV's aren't getting much subsidies in this country.

Originally Posted by hackney

Try telling that to any EV owner!That would not go down well @ all.Did you not know that they are ‘saving’ the planet!They all so sleep better @ night because it gives them that ‘warm & fuzzy’ feeling!

Love sweeping statements. I couldn't give a rats about the Saving the Planet angle. I want a stupidly fast car that costs a few cents to run! I don't want to keep sending money to the Middle East to fund their questionable regimes. We sleep better at night not having to pay $2 a litre for 98!

[hackney]

Originally Posted by kypez

Eh? We had no incentives in Australia for EV's till a month ago.

I think you might want to research into Fossil Fuel subsidies in Australia. Would you like for Petrol/Diesel to be priced at exactly what they should be without Subsidies as well then? What about the years of Subsidies that we got on Ford and Holden locally? Think you'll find that EV's aren't getting much subsidies in this country.



Love sweeping statements. I couldn't give a rats about the Saving the Planet angle. I want a stupidly fast car that costs a few cents to run! I don't want to keep sending money to the Middle East to fund their questionable regimes. We sleep better at night not having to pay $2 a litre for 98!

I ‘Love sweeping statements too’!Hydrogen is the way to go.Not these stupidly overpriced EVs.Don’t forget,you are charging from coal fired power stations!How good is that!

[Burnout]

Originally Posted by happy1

In comparison, in Norway the EVs have been tax free, GST free, free charging many places, free toll roads, and access to bus lanes. Whilst petrol / diesel fuel have been heavily taxed, both at the pumps, and for purchasing the vehicles.

Any State Govt that tries that here wont be in Govt for at least 3 or 4 terms after they implement it. The regions will vote them out & keep them out.
If you own a car, pay for it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Burnout

Any State Govt that tries that here wont be in Govt for at least 3 or 4 terms after they implement it. The regions will vote them out & keep them out.
If you own a car, pay for it.

Especially QLD - interesting voting patterns up there, like turfing people out on their *** in a huge way

Or WA and its independent nation it created

[FTE217]

Norway the leader is smokes and mirrors mind you.....
Obviously all the no tax benfits takes its toll especially when their EV market now is 50% +....and paid for due to with oil/gas exports, so green.
The Gov can't absorb it anymore.
Then the hyper bowl, Norway would like to be one of the first countries to reach net-zero. But the country emits a mere 0.1% of global CO2, with only a third of this tiny fraction coming from transportation. Of far greater importance is the combustion of Norway’s oil and gas exports, which emits about 15 times more CO2 than Norway emits locally. But we prefer not to talk about that.

The fact is that Norwegians are still buying PHEVs, HEVs, and regular gasoline and diesel cars despite incentives making BEVs a much cheaper option. For example, the ID4 is $15,000–19,100 cheaper over a 5-year ownership period (assuming that depreciation, insurance, and interest amount to 70% of the purchase cost) than the RAV4 models. Even for affluent Norwegians, that’s a sizable chunk of disposable income.

Interesting article
https://energypost.eu/norway-an-ev-r...l-gas-exports/

we know who'll be here soon enough.

[FPV8U]

EV’s need to sell themselves to become genuinely viable, at the moment what a EV can cater for is rather limited but it is improving, once platforms like the Rivian and Cybertruck arrive locally you’ll see increased take up.

It’s not like the large family sedan has been the most popular base for sales in the recent past be it EV or not.

[Franco Cozzo]

Once upon a time there was this forward thinking car manufacturer who made a dedicated LPG car which is a relatively clean fuel that's cleaner out the exhaust pipe compared to traditional unleaded engines - but we let our manufacturing industry disappear and our clean LPG car went with them.

Does anyone remember who they were?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Once upon a time there was this forward thinking car manufacturer who made a dedicated LPG car which is a relatively clean fuel that's cleaner out the exhaust pipe compared to traditional unleaded engines - but we let our manufacturing industry disappear and our clean LPG car went with them.

Does anyone remember who they were?

The ones who are still designing and engineering cars here?

LPG would have been vastly more dependable if other manufacturers made LPG vehicles. Beyond Holden, no one else offered them here, but interestingly enough Ford used to do propane powered vehicles in the US, and Hyundai used to do factory LPG vehicles as well. They never offered them here though.

Once Ford and Holden stopped making LPG powered vehicles the writing was on the wall. There was no one else to pick it up and run with it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The ones who are still designing and engineering cars here?

LPG would have been vastly more dependable if other manufacturers made LPG vehicles. Beyond Holden, no one else offered them here, but interestingly enough Ford used to do propane powered vehicles in the US, and Hyundai used to do factory LPG vehicles as well. They never offered them here though.

Once Ford and Holden stopped making LPG powered vehicles the writing was on the wall. There was no one else to pick it up and run with it.

Couple issues that hampered LPG in Australia:

- Dodgy aftermarket conversions being the norm
- Mixer ring LPG setup hung around too long
- Price difference between LPG and unleaded not great enough
- It all happened prior to environmental virtue signalling became a global sport

Everyone's perception of LPG is from that clapped out Falcon or Commodore they had on a mixer ring dual fuel setup back in 2003 that ran like a turd, used heaps of fuel and would backfire and blow the airbox to smithereens every other week because of the aftermarket conversion that was installed by monkeys.

It didn't help that those mixer ring setups hampered performance because of how restrictive they are, so even when it was running well it was still average at best.

The price difference between unleaded and LPG hasn't been that great over the past 15 years or so and environmentalism was a cult that the weird bloke with no friends was into.

It's one of those things where they were ahead of their time, kinda like the Territory Turbo, came out well before performance SUVs were a thing.

The irony is one of the things that started my love for Ford was this absolute ****box EA Falcon on LPG we had when I was a child that left us on the side of the road all the time