ABC 4 Corners, investigation into animal cruelty

[Romulus]

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/speci...110530/cattle/

Did anyone watch this report last night? It's truly barbaric the manner in which these animals are being treated.

The report is very graphic and may be distressing to some.

[Smoke Pursuit]

I have seen it and I have also seen inside what happens in Australian meat works... While the report is distressing I don't see how we can regulate something that happens offshore? The producers are going to be the ones who cop the punishment at this end if the government puts a stop to exports. Australia does not process enough of its own cattle, the cost of labour being the main reason. We have seen a number of smaller abattoirs go broke after the GFC, which has slowed the local demand.. Export is where alot of it is especially for the western qld / NT producers.

I simply don't think stop supply will help us as a nation, they need to look at other avenues.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I have seen it and I have also seen inside what happens in Australian meat works... While the report is distressing I don't see how we can regulate something that happens offshore? The producers are going to be the ones who cop the punishment at this end if the government puts a stop to exports. Australia does not process enough of its own cattle, the cost of labour being the main reason. We have seen a number of smaller abattoirs go broke after the GFC, which has slowed the local demand.. Export is where alot of it is especially for the western qld / NT producers.

I simply don't think stop supply will help us as a nation, they need to look at other avenues.

On the contrary, we give hundreds of millions of dollars to Indonesia, that gives us a say. Further to that MLA fund many of these facilities, provide training, yet this practice occurs.

What's the alternative, let it continue to happen? There is something fundementally wrong with their practices. Watch the doco, watch 'Tommy' trembing with fear as the beast witnesses others around him being tortured. Now tell me that's ok as there is no alternative. I think not!

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

On the contrary, we give hundreds of millions of dollars to Indonesia, that gives us a say. Further to that MLA fund many of these facilities, provide training, yet this practice occurs.

What's the alternative, let it continue to happen? There is something fundementally wrong with their practices. Watch the doco, watch 'Tommy' trembing with fear as the beast witnesses others around him being tortured. Now tell me that's ok as there is no alternative. I think not!

Did I say it was okay? No. I dont believe its okay, but before everyone goes around suggesting we should all stop exporting cattle lets all sit down and have a think about it... The industry needs exports to survive....

It definately needs to be dealt with but having some government big nobs suggest that there needs to be a full ban on exports?? Hello? Do they want every livestock producer in the country to go broke? Losses in exports and an over supply in local production (we dont have the capacity to process anywhere near as many cattle as we export), would see the industry take a dive, and cattle prices plumet!

Therefore while I do not agree with what happens, I dont see how the producer at this end should have to suffer, hes not doing anything wrong, hes just trying to make a living.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Did I say it was okay? No. I dont believe its okay, but before everyone goes around suggesting we should all stop exporting cattle lets all sit down and have a think about it... The industry needs exports to survive....

It definately needs to be dealt with but having some government big nobs suggest that there needs to be a full ban on exports?? Hello? Do they want every livestock producer in the country to go broke? Losses in exports and an over supply in local production (we dont have the capacity to process anywhere near as many cattle as we export), would see the industry take a dive, and cattle prices plumet!

Therefore while I do not agree with what happens, I dont see how the producer at this end should have to suffer, hes not doing anything wrong, hes just trying to make a living.

Every livestock producer going broke? Sound like it came straight from Warren Truss' mouth. Wait, the sky is falling in as well.......

The industry could thrive, employing Australians in Australia, exporting meat.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

Every livestock producer going broke? Sound like it came straight from Warren Truss' mouth. Wait, the sky is falling in as well.......

The industry could thrive, employing Australians in Australia, exporting meat.

Thrive??

Its broke, thats why most smaller operations are now gone... Its a tough industry here. All the stoppage of exports would do here is create an oversupply and a reduction in cattle prices. The poor old consumer wouldnt see it thought, the only ones that will win if that happens is Woolworths and Coles!!

Having grown up with cattle and having them as pets I can't stand to see what is happening to these poor animals, but at the same time I know the industry survives thanks to a large percentage of live export. Cut the live exports out and all we will be left with here is an oversupply that nothing can be done with. The effects on the livestock industry as well as its associated counter parts - e.g. livestock transport industry would be huge!! This wont just affect some people, it will affect alot of people!

[jaydee]

I've shot roo's, wild dogs and cats, even helped kill cattle and sheep for food on the farm.
But what I saw on that show was nothing short of absolute babarism. These people have absolutely no concept of pain and suffering.
I understand some cattle farmers will hurt over this but we as civilised people cannot tolerate this type of conduct for slaughtering animals.

The cattle should be slaughtered here, humanely, and it can still be done according to Muslim culture and exported already dressed or packaged.

There are slaughter houses here in Australia that do this for sheep to provide to the local Muslims, so why can't we do it for cattle.

I must say I am very impressed with the Agricultural Minister not sitting on his hands on this and calling for an immdiate ban on live exports. A refershing change to see a politician make a decision.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by jaydee

I've shot roo's, wild dogs and cats, even helped kill cattle and sheep for food on the farm.
But what I saw on that show was nothing short of absolute babarism. These people have absolutely no concept of pain and suffering.
I understand some cattle farmers will hurt over this but we as civilised people cannot tolerate this type of conduct for slaughtering animals.

The cattle should be slaughtered here, humanely, and it can still be done according to Muslim culture and exported already dressed or packaged.

There are slaughter houses here in Australia that do this for sheep to provide to the local Muslims, so why can't we do it for cattle.

I must say I am very impressed with the Agricultural Minister not sitting on his hands on this and calling for an immdiate ban on live exports. A refershing change to see a politician make a decision.

Feel the same way...I've seen some sick things in my lifetime, but this takes the cake. That poor steer shaking with fear - but they're oblivious. I can understand they're a different culture, but fear looks the same in any country...it's pretty hard to miss.

Australia is supplying the boxes for this and they're not being used for their designed purpose.

It's wrong.

But out of 100 facilities, the agriculture minister has only stopped Aussie cattle from going to three - I would hope that the three they've stopped sending cattle to are some of the ones on that footage.

[03 GHIA]

If anyone here's interested here's the link to the petition, might take a while to sign, the sites rather swamped atm.
http://www.getup.org.au/campaigns/an...-live-export?j

[FRDGAL]

Absolutely appalling.. I literally feel sick in the guts after watching that! Those poor animals..

[MrsLow006]

I grew up on cattle farming properties, My mother had a pet name for all the cattle - We used to kill our own beast for our consumption and I remember my Dad would do the deed - he never let an animal suffer and watching the report made me sick to the stomach. I just shake my head at some humans nature.

[SpoolMan]

Education the key to most things, from a young age changing attitudes to how they treat animals.
As the post by MrsLow006 says there family would never let the animal suffer this attitude is past on to each generation.

[Mondie]

It would be impossible for any normal person not to be repulsed at what was shown last night. l had to turn away a couple of times, while l expected to see some pretty appalling cruelty this was just beyond disgusting. It left me feeling pretty shaken.

Pulling live exports and washing our hands of the problem seems like an easy 'fix' but l dont see what it achieves morally. Animals will continue to die in the most inhumane way imaginable. There is a culture chasm but our best chance of improving this appalling situation is to continue to educate and work with the Indonesians while trying to introduce some baseline standards and expectations to the industry from which the Industry can build from. That can only be done if Australia stays involved and doesn't wash its hands of such cruelty.

[galaxy xr8]

I hope everyone here has signed the petition, if not please do so.

[bungarra]

Having provided services to a major Australian Halal Abattoir, nothing surprising about what was shown. Halal slaughtering is the cruelest form of slaughtering available unlike the quick method used by non halal abattoirs.

It is the old Australian double standard, do it quietly in Australia where they wont let a camera on a halal abottoir site due to cultural reasons of the halal slaughterman or do it openly in Indonesia where they don't hide the facts.

Unfortunately it is a religious requirement for any animal that is used for food to be slaughtered for the worlds largest and fastest growing religion. If anything, we will see a rise of this type of abattoir method in Australia as well.

[Romulus]

Halal and Kosher, are they similar i.e. cutting the animals throat whilst it is still conscious?

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

Halal and Kosher, are they similar i.e. cutting the animals throat whilst it is still conscious?

Could be considered similar except where halal is supposed to be allowed th thrash around to extenuate the blood and loosen the muscles, kosher is to be done to minimize the pain the animal suffers and a rabbi must be present to ensure everything runs correctly and only a small amount of animals in Australia are done this way, the rabbi's have allowed animals to be stunned as per normal methods before the kosher slaughter is done, even abattoirs in Israel stun the animal first.

[trippytaka]

The CAttle industry pays $3m a year to try and regulate it through training etc. BIG questions must be asked as to what the ******* is happening to the money!

I was sick to see the abuse... when that **** broke that poor cow's tail because it couldn't stand with a broken leg I wanted to take a crowbar to his face!

[z80]

We have cows here at home. they are gentle, placcid, trusting animals.

To see them tortured that way not only exposes a sick handler it also shows that they have no idea about quality meat processing.

If you torture an animal to death the meat is tough and full of adrenalin.

Why would any intelligent person want to do all that?

[DJL351]

I haven't watched the video yet. (it doesn't buffer well at work)

While I understand the comments, who are we to decide what they do?
Why damage our industry because of what they do?
Once the animal is paid for and becomes theirs, our responsiblity for it's well-being ends.

If this was happening in this country - I'd be up in arms.
What another country chooses to do with the animals they have purchased, is not my (our) concern.

A little cold - I know; but where does it end? Some would comment that there are people around the world that are being treated just as poorly...

[XR6_661]

Watch 'Earthlings' guys....now that's a real eye opener.

[mcnews]

Some peoples are barbaric by nature and a lot of the world's religions place no value on animals at all, other than food, there is no empathy or feeling connected to those animals. Most of the industrialised cruelty of animals is driven by the most pious and 'moral' god botherers of various persuasions. The two seem to go hand in hand.

[dannyxm]

Whilst restraining myself from typing something horrible, i would simply like to say that if we are not part of the solution, then we are part of the problem.

Animal cruelty is something that i think should take a more prominent role in being an importance, as well as being regluated and always discussed.

Such acts need to be brought to the forum into the society and discussed.

Such cruelty cannot simply be allowed, reduced or accepted simply becouse the trade will suffer. The actions casued by these awful people should not be ignored and brushed over.

The export must simply stop.

The killing of animals in accordance with Muslim law can be done here, by Australians. This will allow more people to be employed here to undertake the demand overseas.

[Road Games]

Best post i have ever read on here .. and it isn't even about cars !

I was going to have steak for tea but i am still horrified from watching that program ...

[fou_bleu]

I have deliberately not watched the story (though I have read the transcript) as from what I have heard, I believe I would be quite distressed from what I see - yes, call me a wuss or whatever, but with some of the gruesome things I have already seen in my short 18 year life time, this I can without doubt miss.

I applaud the government for banning the export of live cattle to 11 of the 100 or so 'outed' abattoirs, but I do hope something can come to fruition in order to stop any other party responsible for these inhumane and downright barbaric happenings.

Again, I believe we need to start slaughtering the cattle here and send over the meat. It really will be the only way to stop this happening - provided this malpractice isn't occurring here too!

[GazzF6]

Yes, it is very shocking! And not acceptable in my opinion.

As it is a Multi million dollar industry..

Money, or loss of, as in most cases, will find it's own solution, what they need to do is have embedded inspectors at these places in question.. to ensure that people are trained in, and then pratice correct behaviours where animal slaughter is being undertaken.

[GASWAGON]

[QUOTE=WWF6 310]Yes, it is very shocking! And not acceptable in my opinion.

As it is a Multi million dollar industry..

"Money, or loss of, as in most cases, will find it's own solution, what they need to do is have embedded inspectors at these places in question.. to ensure that people are trained in, and then pratice correct behaviours where animal slaughter is being undertaken."

They've already had training....by OUR industry....So what's that saying???
And anyway no amount of training will change 'those' peoples respect, appreciation or compassion for there ways of meat supply.... They have no conception of what many here are now greatly distressed and sickened by..... And don't get me started on that dog footage from 60minutes years ago....
Also to say that the animals have been sold and it's not up to us how they're treated is just as sickening!

[Road Games]

Well i have just just came back from a 1hr session punching the bags at 5 rings dojo and i am still ****ed off !!!

Why has this been brought up on a Ford Forum ???

AAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

Not happy i have seen this at all .....

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by XR6menace

Well i have just just came back from a 1hr session punching the bags at 5 rings dojo and i am still ****ed off !!!

Why has this been brought up on a Ford Forum ???

AAARRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!

Not happy i have seen this at all .....

I brought it up because I hope it compels those who care to act.

[Road Games]

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

I brought it up because I hope it compels those who care to act.

Yes mate i realise that ..