which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars?

[RAPID_BA]

Which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars?

Whilst it is no longer at the top of the tree and I hate to say it but the LS1 changed the performance benchmark for aussie cars. Mid 14s for a base model vt2 commodore executive.

Prior to that we were pulling teeth to get the old windsor or holden v8 to dip into the 14s.

Ford were forced to lift their game several times to be on par and had to develop the boss to match it. So responsive to mods.

I think as much as we hate it, we have to acknowledge the ls1 changed the game

[2011G6E]

Further back than that...

The XU1 Torana and the E38 and E49 Chargers did it...people suddenly realised you didn't need bulk cubes to achieve performance, something that had been known overseas for decades (erm...at least in Europe and England...). As long as your car had a well set up chassis and was nicely balanced, with the right engine and the right mods, you could comprehensively wipe the floor with "the big boys" who thought engine development started and stopped at 8 cylinders in a V configuration...

We're almost seeing a seed of this growing again today...Ford V8's have to have a supercharger to make a significant difference over a turbo six cylinder, at least enough to try and differentiate the two and justify the price difference. I still vividly recall two FPV's sitting at Ford in Rockhampton, one an F310 sedan and the other a GS ute...310kw out of a turbo six, and 315 out of a V8...? Why bother paying the extra price, hugely increased rego and insurance costs for the V8?

[Wretched]

XR GT started the whole thing.
Then I would have to say the VLT in the 80's with the XR6T in the 2000's.

[bingoTE50]

Depends how old you are really !! Probably the XR GT and the HK Monaro's although I have a Bathurst DVD that shows a VC Valiant running second after the first lap of the Armstrong 500 in 1966 ..... all in the eye of the beholder really..and I got my P's in one of these.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

I have a Bathurst DVD that shows a VC Valiant running second after the first lap of the Armstrong 500 in 1966

so did it do it's gearbox or brakes? both were very weak in the VC (my brother owned one for many years, nice cars, but very crude by today's standards).

[V3RSAC3]

Would probably have to say for me, was the XR6T that changed the game. I mean Holden had the S/C V6 but it just wasn't the same! For years if you wanted a performance Aussie built car you thought V8 straight away. Now, the XR6T's are a strong contender for the performance boys who aren't so die hard V8. An XR6T left Holden for dead, and was even eating it's ford V8 counter part.

For me, the BA XR6T set the bench mark for Australian Performane!

[bingoTE50]

Yes I would agree the BA XR6T is a contender.Big power available with not too much money.

[StrokedXT]

Xrgt.........

[anto]

1967 XR GT ! everything else performance related was a reaction to that.

[Uncle Niceguy]

Originally Posted by anto

1967 XR GT ! everything else performance related was a reaction to that.

I'm gonna agree with this guy although the charger really was the way but the xr gt is aussie and the charger is american.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by eb-fairmont

I'm gonna agree with this guy although the charger really was the way but the xr gt is aussie and the charger is american.

Ah sorry??? WTF??

The charger is American? We are talking Valiant Charger, you know, Mad Max II, Running from the Guns, made in Australia Charger. Not Bullit, Dukes of Hazzard Dodge Charger.

The four things these cars have in common, is the name, parent company, the door mirror on the different model, & the engine name & cylinder head configuration of "hemi" that's where the similarity ends.

The Valiant Charger was the first Australian designed car to have an integrated boot spoiler. The E49/48 37/38's were all powered by a 265 triple webbered 6 cylinder that could outrun the P4 down the quarter.

That charger.

[anto]

Originally Posted by Conundrum

The Valiant Charger was the first Australian designed car to have an integrated boot spoiler. The E49/48 37/38's were all powered by a 265 triple webbered 6 cylinder that could outrun the P4 down the quarter.

That charger.

just because you wish it, doesnt make it so

[big_landau]

Originally Posted by anto

just because you wish it, doesnt make it so

i dunno id put my money on the e49 over the 1/4 not the phase 4.

[dredd120]

I have to agree with alot of people, the LS1 picked up where the "supercar scare" began in the 70's. Of course we are only referring to aussie cars because some jap and euro cars have always been super quick. The BA turbo was really in response to the lack of power from Ford's V8's compared to holdens. Still now Ford always tunes the V8 for more power on paper but since the intro of XR6 the V8 has been lagging, gotta love the I6, but nothing beats the burnout power and sound of a good V8. But if holden taken take that first step we probably wouldn't even have a turbo series ford

[2011G6E]

I'd probably discount anything with a V8 as being a "game changer" as the V8 has always been the engine to "naturally" go for in a "performance car". (he says, ducking sharply... ).

The title of the thread would mean a vehicle that changed the "normal" face of performance cars, something that was different, outside the square, a vehicle that wasn't what people would expect to contain such performance, something that would make people suddenly go "Holy crap, look at that thing go! That's completely changed my idea about what a performance car is and re-evaluate my thinking!", then I'd still stand by my choice of the XU1 and the E38/E49 Chargers.

Anyone can just slap a V8 into a platform and call it a "performance car"...it had been done to death by everyone from the big guys to smaller makers over the decades. Trying a different and more daring route by going for a smaller engine and yet still wiping the bum of the V8's at the time is truly "game changing".

Closer to modern times, I'd go for the good old XR6...when they were released, for the first time in the modern era people honestly looked at whether they actually did need a V8 to go quickly and give sparkling performance. The common outlook was that the XR6 was as fast if not faster than the XR8, so why bother spending the extra cash on fuel, rego, and insurance on a V8?

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by anto

just because you wish it, doesnt make it so

And just because you cant read doesn't make it a myth. It's been proved. Motor or wheels did the test in the 70's, again in the 80's, & I'm pretty sure it was vindicated again at the turn of the millennium. *yawn*

[Donny]

Originally Posted by eb-fairmont

I'm gonna agree with this guy although the charger really was the way but the xr gt is aussie and the charger is american.

You got your cars 180 degrees wrong..
The Aus Charger was an all Aussie car. With a unique to Australia designed body and the 265 was all Aussie too, where as the XR GT was mostly American, the body was borne from an American varient adapted for us and the drivetrain was 100% American. Remember the XT advertising motto... More Mustang!!...lol

But to the opening point of the topic, many have forgotten the Mini Cooper S.. Now that was quite a benchmark for its time, and a genuine Cooper S would beat a XR or XT GT upto 100MPH.. Then comes the 6 cyl Toranas and Chargers etc etc.
LS anything...??? WTF...Pfffffft... Holdog just pulled a complete donk from the General Motors antique pile and slapped in the Commondogs.. Iv actually gotta say I preferred the local 308's etc that Holdog made over the Chev versions.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by anto

1967 XR GT ! everything else performance related was a reaction to that.

Agree 100%, no if's or but's...........

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

Agree 100%, no if's or but's...........

100% correct. There is no debate about it.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Which car/model changed the face of performance for aussie cars?

Whilst it is no longer at the top of the tree and I hate to say it but the LS1 changed the performance benchmark for aussie cars. Mid 14s for a base model vt2 commodore executive.

Prior to that we were pulling teeth to get the old windsor or holden v8 to dip into the 14s.

Ford were forced to lift their game several times to be on par and had to develop the boss to match it. So responsive to mods.

I think as much as we hate it, we have to acknowledge the ls1 changed the game

Say what ???
The P3 was doin 14s 1/4s in 1971
So it took holden how long to get something to top the king
And your put this rubbish on a ford forum
Cmon

Which car changed the face of performance cars
Ya wanna turn the clock back over 40 years for that correct answer

* The e49 6 cylinder charger of the early 70s were doin 14 1/4s as well
Commondore changed the face of performance cars in australia,not ever

[jcxr]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Say what ???
The P3 was doin 14s 1/4s in 1971
So it took holden how long to get something to top the king
And your put this rubbish on a ford forum
Cmon

Which car changed the face of performance cars
Ya wanna turn the clock back over 40 years for that correct answer

* The e49 6 cylinder charger of the early 70s were doin 14 1/4s as well
Commondore changed the face of performance cars in australia,not ever

Quarter mile figures are not what a performance car is all about.
Handling,braking, etc are more in line with performance than just outright HP
P3 was a pig to drive.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by jcxr

Quarter mile figures are not what a performance car is all about.
Handling,braking, etc are more in line with performance than just outright HP
P3 was a pig to drive.

Totally agree with this
But my comment was in reply to the OPs LS1s and 14 sec 1/4s
Yes perhaps the LS1 powered cars were fast ???
But to say how great they are because they can do a long awaited 14 sec 1/4 mile from factory!!!
Ford and chrysler were doin 14 sec 1/4s 40 years ago
No injection either

* The HG 350 monaros were hot on their heels to
Again another 40 year old dinosaur

Handling and performance
An LS1 commo against a cosworth sierra ???

[302 XC]

Double post

[ELGT4me]

Originally Posted by jcxr

Quarter mile figures are not what a performance car is all about.
Handling,braking, etc are more in line with performance than just outright HP
P3 was a pig to drive.

Funny, I remember the Phase 2 as the "pig to drive", the Phase 3 was more "refined". Mind you these cars we never designed to be "grocery getters".There is a mountain near Bathurst, that's where these "pigs" were designed to be driven. For my money, it all started with XR GT, then the 327 Bathurst Monaro.

[RAPID_BA]

It sort of depends in the age of the fellow forum member and era they grew up. It seems we saw some big changes in early 70s, then nothing really happened for 30 years and then the ls1 arrived.

The vt series 1 hsv owners were hoodwinked by the release of the ls1, next years executive was faster and more powerful than the vt series 1 gts.

The ts50 owners were next to get railroaded by the boss series motors.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

It sort of depends in the age of the fellow forum member and era they grew up. It seems we saw some big changes in early 70s, then nothing really happened for 30 years and then the ls1 arrived.

The vt series 1 hsv owners were hoodwinked by the release of the ls1, next years executive was faster and more powerful than the vt series 1 gts.

The ts50 owners were next to get railroaded by the boss series motors.

Honestly do you beleive what you are typing.
So what your saying the LS1 was the best thing in 30 years?
TS50 owners 'railroaded' right.
www.ls1.com is calling you

[Grippy]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

The ts50 owners were next to get railroaded by the boss series motors.

You sure about that?

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

It sort of depends in the age of the fellow forum member and era they grew up. It seems we saw some big changes in early 70s, then nothing really happened for 30 years and then the ls1 arrived.

The vt series 1 hsv owners were hoodwinked by the release of the ls1, next years executive was faster and more powerful than the vt series 1 gts.

The ts50 owners were next to get railroaded by the boss series motors.

To ask a question as you have done, i think is all good and well for a general consensus
But ALL you keep saying is
"LS1" blah,blah,blah
"LS1" blah blah blah
"LS1" blah blah blah

Seriously take the blinkers of
A WRX or EVO , or even a cosworth sierra would make mincemeat of an
"LS1" blah blah blah

There isnt really "1" specific car that has changed the face of performance cars in australia
Most of the older aussie muscle cars were done as an improvement of the opposition due to the racing history and the,
"Win on sunday,sell on monday" philosophy
Something,that unfortunately has not been seen for a long time, and probably will never seen again
Look at the stuff they race nowadays in the V8 supercar series
Nothin at all like you can buy from a retailer,only similarity is a badge and some body panels

As for the comment that a newer model was better faster than the previous
Fancy buying a carb 308 holden and getting a touch up by granny in her then new V6 commondore !!!
Its called progress

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Say what ???
The P3 was doin 14s 1/4s in 1971
So it took holden how long to get something to top the king
And your put this rubbish on a ford forum
Cmon

Which car changed the face of performance cars
Ya wanna turn the clock back over 40 years for that correct answer

* The e49 6 cylinder charger of the early 70s were doin 14 1/4s as well
Commondore changed the face of performance cars in australia,not ever

Brock Commodores in the 80's.
All ford did then was make hose out taxi's and knit cardigans.

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Brock Commodores in the 80's.
All ford did then was make hose out taxi's and knit cardigans.

Im sure IF im not mistaken
Street machine done a few little tests in the 80s
Punting the P3 GTHO against the best brockadores of the 80s
The P3 at then 10 odd years old still held its head high

The XE ESP Fairmont Ghia 351 wasnt nothin to sneeze at
Certainly took it to the SS commo boys