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24-08-2005, 10:53 AM | #1 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: S.A.
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Interesting article; http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/article.aspx?id=10173
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24-08-2005, 10:54 AM | #2 | ||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
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Yes, saw that article a while ago. To even put the Senator up with the BMW and Merc is a joke...
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24-08-2005, 11:00 AM | #3 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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24-08-2005, 11:20 AM | #4 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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24-08-2005, 11:33 AM | #5 | |||
Viper FG XR6 Turbo
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24-08-2005, 12:14 PM | #6 | |||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
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24-08-2005, 12:19 PM | #7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Older, wiser, poorer. Now in Euro-Trash. VW Coupe V6 4motion.
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24-08-2005, 12:21 PM | #8 | |||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
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24-08-2005, 12:18 PM | #9 | |||
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 501
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my old man has a CLK 200 cabriolet which is pretty entry level on the merc side of things, but still cost about $120K or something, stepping into his car after my car (350z track) really highlights the build quality of the mercs.. Ive seen a CL 55 AMG and SL 55 AMG in the showroom and they are just the ultimate cars.. unbe-f'n-lievable... i would sell my house for one and live in it using the winscreen washer as a shower these cars are that sexy mwahahahaha |
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24-08-2005, 12:30 PM | #10 | ||
Mr Extraordinary
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: perth sor.
Posts: 481
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far out thats one long hsv advert... only read the m5 bit coz i love them cars and all Drive do is bag it.
edit... ok read the hsv bit and i stand by my coment.. with stuff like "all it needs is better brakes/transmission/suspension/tyres" and it'l compete with the germans.. well thats like saying that a corolla with a v8 would be fast. wow thats amazing.. a corolla is so good, that if it were an f1 car, it would be as fast as an f1 car. wow! no mention of quality, just the chrome bits on teh senator making it look a million bucks. i'l bet 50 bucks the test driver was wearing a red cap. Last edited by clampy; 24-08-2005 at 12:41 PM. Reason: add more without post whoring |
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24-08-2005, 01:48 PM | #11 | ||
bring it on
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Praying....for you
Posts: 987
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Australian cars have so much more before they even compete with the German beasts. The speed, yeah not important (although those german cars can accelerate quick, weight 2 tonnes and have less power than our cars, go figure). Anyways sure we have power, they have sophistication, style, class, innovation. But then that is what you pay for. Our cars are not there to do that, the HSV is a luxury muscle car. Well this is my opinion anyway.
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24-08-2005, 04:52 PM | #12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 1,488
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Am I alone here? I would much rather own a really nice, brand-spanking-new GT-P or Senator than any Merc or BMW? Seriously, I just much prefer the look, style, sound and image of modern Aussie muscle to the (admittedly super-quick) European yawn-boxes. I say good on ya Australia for producing some of the best cars to ever see the light of day.
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24-08-2005, 05:34 PM | #13 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 501
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nah i would definitely prefer a SL/CLS/CL 55 AMG or M5 to a senator or GTP !!!!
given the choice though between the euro car OR a GTP and a cheque for the difference in retail, then i'd take the FPV |
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24-08-2005, 06:05 PM | #14 | ||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Enroute
Posts: 4,050
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This article just proves my point that the media is mainly biased toward Holden, even to the point of having holden ads on their website.
Seriously, a BMW, Merc and an HSV? That's like those comparisons they do at formula 1 tracks between a 3 series, 7 series and then the Williams F1 car. I know it sounds horrible but I would pan them if they did it with ford too. Put simply, I can build you a car for $20000 that would blow away the BMW and the Merc, but it would not be all that controllable, stable or safe at high speeds. HSV's answer is similar to this in the sense that there is no adaptive suspension, no active safety devices and no stiffening of the chassis. The build quality is suspect, the balance of the car has a bias toward the front and to be perfectly honest, I would be scared stiff to be in an HSV at 160km/h, let alone 273km/h. HSV or FPV will simply not be as manoeverable as BMW or Merc at high speed, and is probably about 100 more times likely to crash. Crash at speed in a E55 or M5, you got a real good chance. Crash at speed in an HSV; well the last thing that's gonna go through your mind is your ***. I've worked with a mate who has an HSV maloo ute with an out of hours Pratt and Whitney PT6A attached to it, rated at 1150SHP. Has something like 1600nm of torque as well. He wants to race it, nobody will touch it. Everyone who looks at it and hears it start says it's a deathtrap. It would absolutely eat the E55 or M5 in a straight line, and would make HSV look like a SMART car, but that still doesn't make it anywhere near the league of the big Europeans. There are reasons why people pay so much for the European Marquees, something along the lines of safety, security, balance, poise, quality, resale value, exclusivety, prestige, comfort etc. HSV versus the top Europeans? Purrlease. |
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24-08-2005, 06:11 PM | #15 | ||
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Perth
Posts: 501
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^^^^ exactly...
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24-08-2005, 06:23 PM | #16 | ||
The 'Stihl' Man
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,584
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hmm...comparing a Senator to an M5 really isn't as crazy as you think..I had a good blast in a VZ Clubsport (Im 99.9% sure its the same drivetrain) and this thing FLEW.
I have no doubt that in the right hands a LS2 will hit 5 seconds. Until you have driven one dont knock it!
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24-08-2005, 08:19 PM | #17 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: S.A.
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Why do some guys have to start the "biased towards holden" bull s**t.
The review is about how the local 'little guy' can keep up with the big honcho's and maybe even dish a bit out to them. Of course there is differences, but it would be fun to see all three at the drags, don't you think. And wouldn't it be fun to buy the local product & spend another 30 thou on it. |
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24-08-2005, 09:05 PM | #18 | ||
ooga-lagga-ligga-lagga
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Perth
Posts: 776
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i dont think the hsv (or gt for that matter...) is comparable to the others in anything but acceleration/speed. The german cars have got it all over it in every other department.....
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24-08-2005, 09:29 PM | #19 | ||
iRegular crossmember
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in good 'ol WA
Posts: 621
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lol i didnt even know they had 7 speeds in cars
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24-08-2005, 10:54 PM | #20 | ||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
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One important factor to consider when comparing them in speed is that the German cars are engineered to regularly be driven at 180-200km/h+ speeds (read: Autobahn), whereas the HSV is engineered for Australia, ie: 110km/h absolute max. The structural integrity and high speed stability of the other two is light years ahead of anything made here, and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out, its just part of the reason they're $220,000, not $80,000.
Spending $30,000 modifying the HSV won't bring it to the same level as the other two. Sure, you could make it spank them in a straight line, but methinks the engineers at M and AMG tend to make vehicles quite universally capable, as opposed to being simple drag rockets. It'd take ALOT of money put into a local product to be brought on par with those two.
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24-08-2005, 11:08 PM | #21 | |||
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24-08-2005, 11:10 PM | #22 | |||
LPG > You
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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
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As a whole, the entire package is engineered for a lesser overall application.
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25-08-2005, 08:09 AM | #23 | ||
V8 Rock'n'Roll....
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: You got me Rootin' like a Hog, Barkin' like a Dog, Climbing trees and Jumping logs....
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I mostly agree with you Steffo. Yes you could make a $80,000 car go $200,000 fast, but you wouldn't have the depth of engineering that the more expensive car would. A perfect example is the Evo, here's a $25,000 car costing $70,000 and going $100,000 fast. This is what happens when you make $45,000 worth of drive train, but the interior is still only designed for a $25,000 application.
Apply that to the Falcon (in round figures): XT = $30,000 Add $40,000 drivetrian = GT Add $70,000 drivetrain = possible GT-HO Fairlane Ghia + $70,000 drivetrain = E55/ M5 competitor? Before you all slap me, yes I've made some generalism's (is that a word), but the basic rules still apply. Later, Brad....
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25-08-2005, 08:28 AM | #24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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25-08-2005, 08:38 AM | #25 | ||
EF POWER IS HERE!
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Townsville, QLD
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HSV has every right to be compared to top BMW and Merc cars.
I recently took a HSV GTS 300 coupe for a spin (customer brought it into work to get repaired) and I must say not only does it look so much better than those Euro cars on the outside but the interior is really sexy too. Very high quality imo. No doubt this thing could pull like a freight train also. For its $100,000 price tag I would prefer a GTS over something much more dearer like an M5.
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25-08-2005, 09:34 AM | #26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: S.A.
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Seriously, do you really think that the Holden engineers sat down & come to the conclusion that 110km/h is the top speed of Australian roads, so we won't over engineer the safety of the structure, and stuff the export market they'll be happy with whatever they get. Wake up & smell the roses on the other side will ya. Of course there is a difference, but not "light years." |
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25-08-2005, 06:10 PM | #27 | |||
Peter Car
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25-08-2005, 09:30 AM | #28 | ||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Well SSJ, If you were going to use that HSV to its straight line speed potential or even shovel it abit on the freeway I would have to ask you; is yours or another life worth 100K? Because like I said in my previous post, the car is just not designed to be driven over about 140Km/h. Plus, smash and HSV at 140Kmh and I guarantee that you would not survive.
Crash an M or n AMG at the same or greater speed and you will get out and walk away, crying over the damage to the car. That's if in fact you do crash the M or AMG because hey, with all of their progressive and adaptive safety systems such as ESP, Electronic Dampening, automatically adjustable ride height, EBD, ABS, collision avoidance systems such as the sonar on the front which applies the brakes at maximum force, as well as the fact that the cars are stiffer and balanced and many other features, it is hard to imagine one in a fatal accident. Then you wouldn't need the 12 or so airbags as well as safety cell etc to save your behind. So, is yours or others safety and capacity to drive fast worth an extra 100K? HSV is the perennial Versace Wannabe, or the fake Rolex you can buy on the street for 50 bucks. And the only real problem is that their alleged ability to go super fast creaps into the psyche of the individuals driving them. The amount of times I have seen people almost lose it in their HSV's is frightening. The amount of accidents I've seen because of prepubescent idiots driving HSV's are horrifying. All because of a super go fast pedal with an ill suited amount of power for an otherwise family car chassis. Just look at the way HSV and Holden market their cars, donuts in a paddock with some tornado effect?????WTF? Speeding along a road at really high speed with a catchphrase of "life inside an HSV".??? Curiously Holden is trying to appeal to the shacka demographic, as it is obviously they who buy the cars. Compare it to ford, who have cars so powerful that they are only idling along with 50 or more police giving slow chase. Or a ute that gets all of the hot women. In these ads, nothing eludes to how fast it goes, or how much grunt for breaking the law it has. Besides, Ford doesn't have an identity crisis whereby every bogan with an executive tries to make it look like an SS, even though its a V6. HSV - No thanks |
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25-08-2005, 09:53 AM | #29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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I might upset a few people here but HSV/Holden have allways appealed or been marketed in a way to appeal more to the Hoon/bogan/boy racer market. Ford/FPV on the other hand have developed their cars and marketing plan more towards the slightly older more refined and sophisticated customer.. The cars have a slightly more "euro" look and feel to them.
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25-08-2005, 10:25 AM | #30 | |||
EF POWER IS HERE!
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Location: Townsville, QLD
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They dont use the complete same setup as the commodore. Better suspension, drivetrain, brakes, steering, tyres, etc. Plus front/side airbags, EBD, ABS, etc are all standard on them anyway. I think you just have too much hate towards holden.
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My pimpin ride: '95 Ford EF Falcon Futura w/ 5spd manual Mods currently done: Pacemaker extractors, true dual 2.5" exhaust to a single 3" tip CSA 16" 5 spoke mags, spoiler, stoneflector side skirts K&N panel filter Tickford AU snorkel |
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