need some clearing up ...

Dez · 12-02-2005, 08:35 PM

I need a few things cleared up in relation to the BA in particular..

my mate is a holden fan, but he isn't 1 of the good holden fans that you'd be happy to have a discussion with, he is so stubborn, and 1 sided, that its frustratingly annoying.

now just a few of the latest things he has claimed, and as i'm not 100% sure of them, i decided to let some experts answer them for me, then i can tell him he is an idiot :P

he says that "ford transmissions are absolute pieces of shit" and that his step dad told him this (trans specialist).

now, i havent heard an abundance of transmission complaints from anyone here...so it seems odd to me. my mum has a fairmont with a lot of k's on it, and the trans is fine!

my brothers ED has like 320K on it, and the transmission feels FINE.

his next comment is this, "ford removed the transmission dip stick in the BA, because the fluid was turning black so quickly, and the customers were complaining. so ford removed the dip sticks on the BA Model so that customers would have to take it to a dealer etc, and not know that the tranny was killin the fluid etc etc etc"

and his final comment, " ford are still using the same tranny from ages ago in the BA, and they just added the sequential bit to it"

now, that last 1 sounds very stupid to me....i dont think ford jsut added a "new bit" to an old transmission and stuffed it into the car that was to save ford australia....

so in summary, these are the statements

1. Ford transmissions are absolute shit ( he says he and his step dad get heaps of customers with BA's and other fords that the transmissions are shit as etc)

2. transmission dip stick removed from BA models because the fluid would go black so quickly and they didnt want owners to know

3. ford still using old transmissions. just added the sequential to it...( and i dont even know if that is mechanically possible)

thanks in advance

Kryton · 12-02-2005, 08:55 PM

transmission dipsticks were removed in the AU (could even be before that) for the simple reason that people were putting the wrong oil in and stuffing things up.

ford transmissions ARE crap...thats why a taxi can only do 800000km on it before its ****ed.-what a loser!!

lv619 · 12-02-2005, 09:02 PM

As davway has said, if the bloke knew what he was talking about, he would realise that ford omitted the transmission dipstick from about the EL series onwards, not just for the BA. This was to stop dipsticks (excuse the pun) from accidently over filling the trans with fluid and subsequently funcken them up.

I usually refrain from arguing with idiots, like the old saying says, "they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

Dez · 12-02-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lv619

As davway has said, if the bloke knew what he was talking about, he would realise that ford omitted the transmission dipstick from about the EL series onwards, not just for the BA. This was to stop dipsticks (excuse the pun) from accidently over filling the trans with fluid and subsequently funcken them up.

I usually refrain from arguing with idiots, like the old saying says, "they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

thats exactly right, i let him ramble on and on, because no matter what FACT i provide him with, he will still be right in his own mind, and if all else fails, he will just quote 1/4 mile times, because, after all, thats what every single car is ALL about. lol

**Peuty** · 12-02-2005, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lv619

This was to stop dipsticks (excuse the pun) from accidently over filling the trans with fluid and subsequently funcken them up.

I have even heard of blokes putting engine oil in their auto trans.

Which tends to funk them up as well.

Dez · 12-02-2005, 09:33 PM

if this is an actual problem, big enough to cause ford to change their setup, surely other manufacturers would have had similar issues?

Kryton · 12-02-2005, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dez

if this is an actual problem, big enough to cause ford to change their setup, surely other manufacturers would have had similar issues?

the actual problem here was commodore owners borrowing their mates fords (coz the commo was ****ed) and then deciding that since their commo needed another 3 litres of transmission oil added every 4 days that they better top it up to be on the safe side.

:

Dez · 12-02-2005, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

transmission dipsticks were removed in the AU (could even be before that) for the simple reason that people were putting the wrong oil in and stuffing things up.

ford transmissions ARE crap...thats why a taxi can only do 800000km on it before its ****ed.-what a loser!!

lmao, thats what i was thinking....fords are so shit and un-reliable, thats why all the taxis are subarus!

lol!

XRated · 12-02-2005, 09:36 PM

I think the dip stick was removed in the EF... But I can't be sure.

Anyway, no point in going down to his level... Let him believe what he wants, it's best that way (especially for us Ford fans).

Dez · 12-02-2005, 09:38 PM

heheh yeah, im not interested in going down to his level so to speak, but its always good to know these things for my own benefit as well

i'm not 1 to get into an argument if i dont know the FACTS.

anyone able to clear up the comment about the BA not getting a nwe transmission....i would've thought that especially this time round, ford would have put a NEW transmission, especially considering the $500million the BA project recieved...

**M&Ms** · 13-02-2005, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XRated

I think the dip stick was removed in the EF... But I can't be sure.

The EF had a dipstick, the EL didn't. I don't know about the EF2 though, but I'm 100% sure about the other 2

RED_EL_XR8 · 13-02-2005, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by micmansour

The EF had a dipstick, the EL didn't. I don't know about the EF2 though, but I'm 100% sure about the other 2

Trans Dipstick went in later Efs. 100,000Ks before major trans service, you'd expect oil to be a tad darker. Try run a holden auto that long.
The box is basically the same through all models but has been refined and up spec'd with each model release.

Pilch · 12-02-2005, 10:06 PM

all I know is that the "J-gate" (sequential) can be bolted to the old tranny, eg. dellboy999 and soon to be Ghia5L. But the relevant point is:
- the new Holden trannys (alteast the VT) are both slow and rough in comparison to the AU, so even if it wasn't upgraded its still a solid auto IMO!

Thornie · 12-02-2005, 10:33 PM

1. punch your mate in the mouth for being an idiot
2. repeat as above
3. repeat the first 2 steps until your satisfied he wont talk shit like a usual holden bogan

:

Dez · 13-02-2005, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaTTuS

1. punch your mate in the mouth for being an idiot
2. repeat as above
3. repeat the first 2 steps until your satisfied he wont talk shit like a usual holden bogan

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brute33

Tell your mates mum that her husband is screwing someone else and to **** him off.
Hope this helps

these are both wonderful suggestions, however, not such a good idea in this case, as he is in quite a position to beat the living shit out of me.

lol, he is quite a strong lad, and quite the fighter as well...

lets just say i'm glad we're on the same side at the end of the day ;)

thanks for ya help lads

4.0i_SiX · 13-02-2005, 12:00 AM

typical one-eyed commodore driver...

nuff said

Brute33 · 13-02-2005, 12:15 AM

Tell your mates mum that her husband is screwing someone else and to **** him off.
Hope this helps

deesun · 13-02-2005, 12:18 AM

God created Holdens tokeep the F***wits out of Fords.Very obvious in this case.

EB-maen · 13-02-2005, 12:27 AM

holdens i dont mind. holden drivers, i do. this is an opinion i have formed from what ive seen on the roads and heard holden supporters say. examples include having some retard in an early-model commodore almost run into the back of me at a roundabout cos i stopped for a bus that was already entering. he screeched to a halt (it was the noise that made me look in the mirror thinking 'wtf') overtook me on the roundabout in the lefthand lane and then turned right from it. also, two black commodores being pure fukwits darting in and out of traffic at no less than 100kph, as it was a 70 zone (i was doing 70 and the cars around me were going at the same pace) and they absolutely flew past. i also saw some shitbag pulling into a servo in a commodore (vn i think) that was lowered to a ridiculous level and had yellow rims and random stickers on the side. typically, you could barely see his chin above the door and there was some skanky 14 year old girl in the passenger seat smoking. i was waiting in line to get out of a carpark if anyone is wondering how i remember so much about the car and its inhabitants. i have also seen a fair few 'modified' falcons driving around the roads and every one of them is driven sensibly, with most of them being driven by mature-aged men, as opposed to 17 year old douchebags wearing caps. plus yeah, most 'debates' result in comments like 'all fords suck because they are fords' and other mindless statements. i spose you could call it a shame, but meh, such is life

needturbo6 · 13-02-2005, 12:33 AM

1. v6 commodore boxes are even WORSE!!! i used to work at a tranny shop and they had at least 1 rebuild every week and sometimes up to 3 per week......

2. no i think it was the EF2 that had no dipsticks, from what my old boss said was mainly because taxi drivers were filling them with any old oil.

3. yes for once he is actually correct!!!! it sounds like he knows more about fords than he does about his beloved holdens, which (as ford do) still use the same gearbox (except the 195kw versions -S, statesman and calais) since the VN. which has poor shift quality/smoothness compared to the ford gearbox.

and ford are still using the same gearbox because they can. holden is stupid for not using the 5 speed across the range, leaving their ancient auto for bog stock models

sounds like one of those sterotypical holden know-it-alls, he sounds lik a funny man too hahaha

loxxr6 · 13-02-2005, 05:13 AM

Quote:

which has poor shift quality/smoothness compared to the ford gearbox.

Countless motoring journo's have said that the (outgoing) Holden auto transmission is harsh and well due to put out to pasture. I don't recall the new one setting the world on fire either.

Hell, lets not even talk about their 6 speed gearbox which had its stupid ratio'd 6th gear.... I do think that this may have been changed tho....I could be wrong.

Dez · 13-02-2005, 01:07 PM

i think it has been changed, i remember reading somewhere the praise for the same 6 speed in the ford because of its much more useable ratios.

the old 6 speed in the holden, 1 description i remember from a magazine was that 6th gear is useless unless your driving across the simpson desert. lol

**Peuty** · 13-02-2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dez

1 description i remember from a magazine was that 6th gear is useless unless your driving across the simpson desert. lol

Or the back straight at Hockenheim.

Or setting a new land speed record.

4.0i_SiX · 13-02-2005, 01:19 PM

My EF series II does not have a dipstick..
Im not a fan of the BTR Auto's used in the falcons, only reason is that it makes them a slug on take off. Shift quality and overall smoothness far exceeds that of the Commodore. The new 5 speed Auto will be an interesting one...hopefully they do something with the 1st gear ratio..

Most commodore lovers are sheep who follow what their dad drives or what their mates drive. Most wouldnt know the first thing about cars and drive them like theyre a V8 supercar. Ive stopped myself getting into Ford vs Holden debates as it is a lost cause. Theyre arrogant and will always be arrogant. I have at least 3-4 close holden buddies who will NEVER give a ford the respect it may deserve. If I see a nice looking holden I will comment and appreciate what it is. That and I dont drive around with my arm so far out the window that my knuckles are scraping on the ground, meanwhile its a stinking hot day and the aircon is on.....idiots

Dez · 13-02-2005, 01:29 PM

thats why the few holden guys on this forum are more than welcome. we can have mature discussion with them, so i'm more than happy for them to be here...and on meets etc.

this guy is 1 of the "other" holden supporters though, who doesnt really know to much, and isnt a "car enthusiast" like the rest of us.

in the end, i wanted to know this stuff more for myself, just to have the facts

Sox · 13-02-2005, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dez

1. Ford transmissions are absolute shit ( he says he and his step dad get heaps of customers with BA's and other fords that the transmissions are shit as etc)

This one is true IMO.
Yes they are reliable, however they have two serious problems. The shift delay, and excessive flaring.
The gearing is also poorly spread.

In it's favour is the fact the the GM auto is even worse.

Quote:

2. transmission dip stick removed from BA models because the fluid would go black so quickly and they didnt want owners to know

Wrong, the reason was because owners put the wrong fluid in and killed them.

Quote:

3. ford still using old transmissions. just added the sequential to it...( and i dont even know if that is mechanically possible)

This one is true.

Rick.

TaraHymen · 13-02-2005, 04:26 PM

i'm past getting involved in holden vs ford arguments but some ppl know exactly which buttons to push. i dont stereotype fords or holdens for that matter as being wonderful purely by the badge on the bootlid. i just happen to have a leaning towards a particular type of car but the something i've always used with effect is ask the one-eyed commodore owner(vn onwards) to pull the interior light cover off and have a good look. not only is there a ford part number on it, but the ford logo moulded in too. fancy u'r mate driving his royal commode with a ford part fitted. now the way i see it if they cant even get the interior light right, then how do they build something complicated?

on the fords running an "old" transmission. didnt holden run a TH700 from about 1987 onwards with only a couple of mods here and there.

you cant have a battle of wits with someone if they show up unarmed.

and tell your mate to stop being smart, it doesnt suit him.