FG wagon - what would it have been?

Road_Warrior · 15-10-2011, 11:32 PM

Now before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I know full well there isn't and never will be another Falcon wagon, what I would like to explore is an alternate future which assumes there would have been.

What would an FG wagon have been?

Would it have been a rebodied B-series car with leaf springs and a LWB platform, or something more like the Commode Sportwagon on the sedan platform with IRS?

Having just spent the past 2 weeks tooling around in an AU wagon, I now realise how useful the old wagon actually was. That load space will swallow a lot of crap. And as for the leaf sprung v IRS argument - who cares. The average wagon buyer isn't buying a wagon for its handling prowess and probably wouldn't even notice the difference between the two under normal driving conditions. Henceforth I reckon Ford could have gotten away with offering an FG wagon on a LWB platform with leaf springs. But the old wagon's downfall was, quite simply, it wasn't stylish, and physical attraction is the first obstacle to any successful 'relationship'. If it was a stylish little (or large) number, it may have been a winner.

What say you? What would it have been?

FPV GTHO · 15-10-2011, 11:39 PM

Ive heard an FG wagon had been styled but not approved and given Holdens new direction theres every possibility Ford wouldve followed, however looking back at previous Falcon wagons, theyve got a distinct familiarity about them in the rear end going back to the EA wagon. Because of that i find it hard to believe that when Ford are having to spend less on the mainstream models, they'd spend more on the niche models than they have in the past, which surely would have to be the case to produce a Falcon wagon drastically different from its forebear. It may have still looked good though, i know theres plenty of AU wagons that with the right treatment look nice but i cant say i see too many nice looking BA wagons. They may have managed to restyle the whole bodyside whilst maintaining the inner structure as much as possible.

**Revolver** · 15-10-2011, 11:44 PM

A Flop. According to Ford Australia.

Sorry. Had to say it.

**SSD-85** · 16-10-2011, 12:40 AM

According to many Joe Citizens, A knock-off of the VE wagon. Which in itself is a knock off of the 300C. But its a Holden, so no one cares.

I reckon Ford wouldve had a better chance with a FG coupe. Not to ruffle feathers....

FPVGT500 · 16-10-2011, 12:50 AM

Got to say with what holden did with the sportwagon is sensational, you could even order a hsv wagon and for once a wagon actually looked nice......

Thornie · 16-10-2011, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPVGT500

Got to say with what holden did with the sportwagon is sensational, you could even order a hsv wagon and for once a wagon actually looked nice......

Sportswagon is the one thing that would make me buy a holden over a ford.

pottery beige · 16-10-2011, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RaTTuS

Sportswagon is the one thing that would make me buy a holden over a ford.

yes.. it would.. a RWD sportish.. gruntish.. SWG.......

Yellow_Festiva · 16-10-2011, 07:54 AM

I wonder.... how desirable have would a LPI wagon have been to taxi buyers?

How many Commy wagons were bought by fleets / government etc? If a Ford wagon was produced that could carry more and be 'greener' would that have taken their sales?

I think it's too later IMO. With the constant talk of the downfall of the full size car, a wagon probably would not earn Ford its development money back, especially with the new Territory.

fmc351 · 16-10-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

... especially with the new Territory.

Key point IMO. Territory is the wagon.

I think it is obvious considering they dropped it, that if they instead went ahead and built a wagon it would probably have been a BF with a grafted FG front. Given they dropped it, the decision would have been marginal to continue so unlikely given past practice to completely redesign the body. I didnt have an issue with the wagons (owned a couple), never liked the XD-F series they were too much like a hearse IMO, but the EL was a nice looking wagon, bugger even the EA wasnt all that bad and the cargo space was HUGE. Leaf springs was an advantage to me anyway as I bought them to use as wagons and often they had weight in them for months on end, coils would sag in no time.

I actually dont understand why more families dont buy wagons, apart from thats their choice. Throw a couple of push bikes in the back, some picnic gear, and/or fishing rods and gear, couple of kids and even a dog. So easy and still easy to drive and park around town.

Even as an 18 yr old there are advantages to wagons over sedans. Dont bother knockin.

Resurrection · 16-10-2011, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I wonder.... how desirable have would a LPI wagon have been to taxi buyers?

How many Commy wagons were bought by fleets / government etc? If a Ford wagon was produced that could carry more and be 'greener' would that have taken their sales?

I think it's too later IMO. With the constant talk of the downfall of the full size car, a wagon probably would not earn Ford its development money back, especially with the new Territory.

A FG wagon with proper payload would have been extremely popular with fleets and the EcoLPI version would have no problems accommodating a full sized spare tyre. The Territory agrument is flawed as I know people who want a Falcon wagon but don't want or see the Ford Territory as the alternative.

flappist · 16-10-2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

A FG wagon with proper payload would have been extremely popular with fleets and the EcoLPI version would have no problems accommodating a full sized spare tyre. The Territory agrument is flawed as I know people who want a Falcon wagon but don't want or see the Ford Territory as the alternative.

So what did they buy or are driving right now?

Resurrection · 30-12-2011, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

So what did they buy or are driving right now?

So far two have selected a Territory and one a Commodore Sportswagon.

EB# · 16-10-2011, 08:13 AM

2011G6E · 16-10-2011, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB92

image

It would have been like that...and given people an alternative to the Sportswagon. The Territory isn't a "Falcon wagon"...it's seen as a "four wheel drive" type vehicle, something completely different, appealing to an entirely different buying sector. The ordinary man-in-the-street sees cars as beung in a few basic classes...sedan, wagon, four wheel drive/SUV. If they want a wagon, most people won't turn to an SUV, no matter how good it is...they want a "wagon"...a car with a bit tacked on the back.
Ford dropped the ball big time by dropping the wagon and just assuming people would automatically swap over to buying a Territory...I know plenty of "Ford guys" who lament the loss of the wagon, and don't really know what to turn to for their next family wagon...they don,t want a four wheel drive, and if you mention Territory, they just lump it in with four wheel drives...they want a Falcon wagon.

**Elks** · 16-10-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB92

image

I like it. That would be a cool niche filler in between Falcon sedan and Territory.

The good folk seem to forget the is no large car market as such, but dozens of little segments that make up the market as a whole. Contrarily Holden have the ability to pick the niches mastered.

jpd80 · 16-10-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elks

I like it. That would be a cool niche filler in between Falcon sedan and Territory.

The good folk seem to forget the is no large car market as such, but dozens of little segments that make up the market as a whole. Contrarily Holden have the ability to pick the niches mastered.

Which is why Ford needs to find different niches where the possibility of less competition ans success are better,
take for example Territory against captiva and an existing Mondeo S/W against Sportwagon, a choice in segments
sees Holden import Captiva where Ford imports mondeo Stationwagon... but what happens when Malibu arrives?
Will Malibu add to holden's sales or canabalize from Commodore and Cruze buyers shifting withing Holden's range...

IMO, the real battle begins with new Ranger-Colorado-Hilux and their new SUV variants.
If all three makers get their diesel SUVs right we might see an even bigger swing away from large sedans...

DENKO · 20-10-2011, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB92

image

If thats what it would of looked like, i would buy 1 in a heart beat!!

EB# · 16-10-2011, 08:17 AM

EB# · 16-10-2011, 08:17 AM

Venomous1 · 16-10-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB92

image

This is really good looking this against the Sportwagons would have been excellent. Missed opportunity.

pottery beige · 16-10-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venomous1

This is really good looking this against the Sportwagons would have been excellent. Missed opportunity.

bigtime......

Road_Warrior · 16-10-2011, 10:16 AM

Those FG sportwagon chops look quite bizzare.

I still think that Ford could have done a leaf sprung wagon 'on the cheap' but I guess the volume of the Territory outweighs anything the wagon could have ever dreamed of obtaining.

kaniSS · 16-10-2011, 10:33 AM

I don't like it at all. They look like funeral cars.

MAGPIE · 16-10-2011, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaniSS

I don't like it at all. They look like funeral cars.

Well they always were anyway, if it looks like a hearse, handles like a hearse it probably is a hearse.

Falcon wagons have always been popular as body transporters.

Brazen · 16-10-2011, 11:03 AM

I always thought they would go the reskinned BF route but knowing the data they had on hand from Commodore sales I wouldnt actually be suprised if they were going a sport wagon route. Looking at Holden with almost 40% of Commodores being wagon there was certainly the market there for a sporty wagon. In fact on pure returns I am sure if they looked at average transaction prices the sporty wagon would look have looked very convincing. They make a killing on them.

When I was shopping for a car I could get brand new XR6 sedans for 31,000 drivaway, the best I could get for a SV6 sportwagon was 41,000 driveaway, thats $10,000 extra cash per vehicle and a big waiting list as they were selling every one they build. I wouldnt be suprised if Ford were seriously considering going down the sport wagon route with all that info.

What I suspect is that the wagon would have therefore been built on the sedan wheelbase but still with a larger cargo area than the Holden to fit LPG gear and to counter act the biggest complaint of the Holden that the cargo area was too small.

Somehow I dont think they were considering a re-skinned BF as they probably would of just done it as its cheap and it gets the volumes up, I am sure if they went this route though it still would have been a full lineup of G6, G6E, XR6 etc.

jpd80 · 16-10-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Those FG sportwagon chops look quite bizzare.

I still think that Ford could have done a leaf sprung wagon 'on the cheap' but I guess the volume of the Territory outweighs anything the wagon could have ever dreamed of obtaining.

On the cheap being the underscored text becuse Ford saw the Stationwagon as tools of trade.

Now compare that perception with what's happened over at Holden where sport wagon and Ute
are mostly bought as mid and high series vehicles usually with a V8 option...

When holden introduced the sportwagon, it heavily canabalized sedan sales but I suspect that was
because VZ wagon buyers moved to VE sedan but really wanted the wagon back and moved accordingly.

What Ford is concerned about is spending on a wagon only to have it heavily canabalize Falcon sedan sales.
The diesel Mondeo Station wagon saved approx $300M to $400M in development costs wile giving
250-300 sales/mth, now that is what i call getting bang for your buck and still saving a packet too...
While Ford fans mightn't like that decision, it allows Ford to remain profitable in the near future....

Brazen · 16-10-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

What Ford is concerned about is spending on a wagon only to have it heavily canabalize Falcon sedan sales.
The diesel Mondeo Station wagon saved approx $300M to $400M in development costs wile giving
250-300 sales/mth, now that is what i call getting bang for your buck and still saving a packet too...

The Holden wagon cost 130m and that was tested and designed to expensive US design and crash standards if it was to be sold there. It was also an all-new wagon not based on VZ at all. I suspect a FG wagon simply reskinned BF with a full lineup of variants would have cost 50m to 80m, with a sportwagon costing up to 100m. The Territory cost 500m and that was with its marketing studies, new design, steering, suspensions, body, interior and all wheel drive systems and awd testing around the world. A wagon is a sedan simply with changes to the rear sheet metal, its relatively cheap.

jpd80 · 16-10-2011, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

The Holden wagon cost 130m and that was tested and designed to expensive US design and crash standards if it was to be sold there. .

Interesting because the FG wagon was supposedly to have a long wheelbase, possibly longer doors and definitly a new rear

Jim Goose · 16-10-2011, 11:15 AM

The Holdens sportwagon, while it looks good, is pretty small in terms of cargo space. So you end up with a car which weights a bit more then the sedan but isnt really useful??

Putting flame suit on... how about instead of a falcon wagon (which apparently looks like a hearse... or a restyled short body wagon which then everyone says looks like a commodore sportwagon) Ford makes a hatchback type? Anyone good with photoshop?
Since small hatchbacks seem popular with females, would a large family type hatch be a seller?

Brazen · 16-10-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Putting flame suit on... how about instead of a falcon wagon (which apparently looks like a hearse... or a restyled short body wagon which then everyone says looks like a commodore sportwagon) Ford makes a hatchback type? Anyone good with photoshop?
Since small hatchbacks seem popular with females, would a large family type hatch be a seller?

Works for Mondeo! Its actually not a bad idea as it could appeal to both sedan and wagon buyers to an extent but only costs you the development of one bodystyle (if you were to only have one).