Holden cuts off communication with Federal Government

[BroadyFord]

Looking worse by the day:

Manufacturer Holden is refusing to send a delegation to Canberra to discuss the future of the car industry in Australia

http://www.smh.com.au/business/manuf...117-2xp57.html

Holden has withdrawn further from communication with the federal government.

A delegation of car industry workers and union officials will arrive in Canberra for talks with government officials on Tuesday without representatives from the Holden factory floor.

''Unfortunately, Holden indicated that it would not release any representatives to go to Canberra," said John Camillo, South Australian state secretary of the Australian Manufacturing Workers Union.

"They said they didn't want to play any politics and didn't want to release them."

The delegation will be made up of representatives from Toyota, Ford and car parts manufacturers.

''As far as I know they have never done that before. I gave them plenty of notice," Mr Camillo said.

The snub is the second from Holden which last week turned down a government request to meet a visiting executive from its US owner General Motors.

Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane had asked to meet GM's head of operations in the Asia-Pacific region, Europe, Africa and the Middle East, Stefan Jacoby. He said the snub showed "a lack of sensitivity" towards the state of the industry.

It followed General Motors' decision last month to shift its Australian chief
Mike Devereux to Shanghai by the end of the year.

Mr Devereux had sealed a deal with the previous Labor government to continue to make cars in Adelaide until 2022 and to continue to maintain a design presence at Port Melbourne. The agreement signed by prime minister Julia Gillard cost the federal government $215 million, the South Australian government $50 million and the Victorian government $10 million.

Mr Camillo said workers wanted information.

"The shop stewards are copping pressure from the workers every day asking what's happening. Every day they are reading something in the paper. They want us to do something and they keep asking us - what is the decision, what's happening?" he said.

The change of the government and the new minister's decision to refer the question of car industry support to the Productivity Commission rather than honour Labor's agreement meant Holden had already missed the deadline for gearing up to retool its production line during the Christmas break.

"If you are going to make new models you need to take advantage of downtime,'' Mr Camillo said. ''They would have worked around the clock for those nine days reconfiguring the production line and then come back at Easter. That opportunity has gone now."

If Holden withdraws from Australia after its present models expire in 2016 Toyota is likely to follow. Ford has already announced its intention to leave in 2016. The withdrawal of all three manufacturers would lead to the withdrawal of the component parts manufacturers. About 200,000 jobs are at risk - one-fifth of the 1 million-odd workers employed in manufacturing.

Additional reporting here

[anto]

Well they can have no complaints then....

[Rodge]

Strange...arn't they the ones calling for more Govt support ? I don't get why they arn't taking a more consultative approach, unless the end is imminent ? what other conclusion could one possibly draw from this ?

[mik]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Strange...arn't they the ones calling for more Govt support ? I don't get why they arn't taking a more consultative approach, unless the end is imminent ? what other conclusion could one possibly draw from this ?

I think it is a forgone conclusion that they will pack up Rodge, just a matter of when rather than if.

[TheSneakiness]

Holden playing games with the government to try and scare them into more money.

Make em shut up shop, yes I realise people will lose their jobs however its the only way for them to stop playing games.

[BroadyFord]

I know it's going back many, many years but this probably wouldn't be happening had GM not bought Holden those long decades ago.

Would have stayed an Australian company like Mercedes is German and Bentley is British etc. and Holdens could have been sold globally as uniquely Australian vehicles instead of the company being dictated by its US parent.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

I know it's going back many, many years but this probably wouldn't be happening had GM not bought Holden those long decades ago.

Would have stayed an Australian company like Mercedes is German and Bentley is British etc. and Holdens could have been sold globally as uniquely Australian vehicles instead of the company being dictated by its US parent.

Hate to burst your bubble but Bentley is 100% owned by VW .

[the_scotsman]

When companies are so reliant on government funding, there's something drastically wrong, and it's time to pack up shop.

[Hulsty]

Originally Posted by the_scotsman

When companies are so reliant on government funding, there's something drastically wrong, and it's time to pack up shop.

Thats pretty much every car company in the world, so they should all shut down and we have no cars?

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Hulsty

Thats pretty much every car company in the world, so they should all shut down and we have no cars?

Plenty if not all are but look at the amount of revenue/sales each of these makers has vs the amount of assistance they receive.

You can also look at the amount of investment these companies have put into their economy. Look at how much of an investment Merc and BMW have put into Germany.
Look at how much Toyota has re invested into Japan and their innovation.

Now look at what Holden and Ford have done here in comparison, how many cars they sell. Now you can see why people are questioning the viability of local investment.

[the_scotsman]

Originally Posted by Hulsty

Thats pretty much every car company in the world, so they should all shut down and we have no cars?

Hence why I said "so reliant". Obviously they're in trouble, and relying entirely on the government to survive.

[Giant]

Originally Posted by the_scotsman

When companies are so reliant on government funding, there's something drastically wrong, and it's time to pack up shop.

Plenty of companies world wide are reliant on some sort of government funding, its not a fair and even playing field.

Australia needs more rules to protect Australian jobs, land, minerals and food production. For far to long we have failed to take full advantage of what we have.

That doesn't mean protect and build cars that don't sell.

[wrongwaynorris]

Originally Posted by the_scotsman

When companies are so reliant on government funding, there's something drastically wrong, and it's time to pack up shop.

So the Germans who produce the worlds best cars have got it all wrong with their $ 95.00 USD per person per annum subsidies have they ?

[the_scotsman]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

So the Germans who produce the worlds best cars have got it all wrong with their $ 95.00 USD per person per annum subsidies have they ?

Oh for goodness sake....read my post above. Of course others are subsidised by the government to some extent. But when it gets to the point Holden are at, there IS obviously something wrong.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Would have stayed an Australian company like Mercedes is German and Bentley is British etc. and Holdens could have been sold globally as uniquely Australian vehicles instead of the company being dictated by its US parent.

Pretty sure they'd be producing something little better than a Lada, and I doubt there'd be much export demand for that.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

I know it's going back many, many years but this probably wouldn't be happening had GM not bought Holden those long decades ago.

Would have stayed an Australian company like Mercedes is German and Bentley is British etc. and Holdens could have been sold globally as uniquely Australian vehicles instead of the company being dictated by its US parent.

Holdens were never a car maker back then, just a coach builder. They put bodies on chassis they imported. Without GM they would have gone the way of all of the other coach builders we do not remember

[Rob 351]

Weird! Sounds like the fed government are trying to help Holden and find a solution to the problem & Holden give them the middle finger!!!
I don't think I will bother feeling sorry for Holden anymore. Whats the point & you watch, WHEN they go they will blame the federal government. How ironic!
This is a main part of the reasons I am a supporter of the Ford Motor Company. There business ethic is by far superior to that of not just Holden, but GM world wide.
We might not all like the decisions Ford make, but at the end of the day they are running a business & run it much more professionally & ethically than the mob on the other side of the tracks.
It's not just the the cars I like, I love the brand & what it stands for!

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Rob 18

Weird! Sounds like the fed government are trying to help Holden and find a solution to the problem & Holden give them the middle finger!!!
I don't think I will bother feeling sorry for Holden anymore. Whats the point & you watch, WHEN they go they will blame the federal government. How ironic!
This is a main part of the reasons I am a supporter of the Ford Motor Company. There business ethic is by far superior to that of not just Holden, but GM world wide.
We might not all like the decisions Ford make, but at the end of the day they are running a business & run it much more professionally & ethically than the mob on the other side of the tracks.
It's not just the the cars I like, I love the brand & what it stands for!

And I wish I had a dollar for every time I've argued the same pro ford topic. Holden are muppets....

[wrongwaynorris]

Holden know they are pulling out by 2016 at the latest and have had their bluff called . What did I say in another thread about Holden being run by thoroughly unscrupulous unprincipled bastards who are unmitigated liars .

[b0son]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

What did I say in another thread about Holden being run by thoroughly unscrupulous unprincipled bastards who are unmitigated liars .

Americans?

[Syndrome]

All over red rover.

[FalconXV]

Two points.
1) wasn't there a goauto article saying GMH are tooling up for next gen over the holiday period anyway?
2) I am fed up with the hand to mouth sentiment, which overlooks the ROI. Holden isn't playing games they stated their terms clearly all along, its thw govt. Prevaricating and stalling time to execute their shrunken economy agenda. The Productivity comission is a ruse to stall time and drive the final nail into the coffin. You need only read the first submission to see what the outcome is.
How can Holden make a commitment when earlier promised cash is on ice?
I'd rather see a taxpayer Injection to prop it up for a few more years than a potential snap recession of SA and Vic.
Why would GMH waste time negotiating when they govt has made their position clear?

[TC200six]

Anyone game enough to predict when Holden will announce closure? Early next year, or will they last longer than I think?

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by TC200six

Anyone game enough to predict when Holden will announce closure? Early next year, or will they last longer than I think?

I've already predicted a closure announcement within 3-4 weeks.

I wish Sportsbet were providing odds; could clean up nicely.

The bigger tragedy is if Toyota closes as a result of Holden's demise. Unlike Ford and GMH, Toyota have actively pursued and maintained a strong export base with annual output from Altona being in excess of 100k units. They've dealt ethically with the government and have done far more than both FoA and GMH combined to stay in Australia.

The government should be looking at this in the context of "if we don't prop up an incompetent, small-scale and unproductive car maker then a competent, large-scale and (relatively) productive car maker will fall too".

[stevz]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

I've already predicted a closure announcement within 3-4 weeks.

I wish Sportsbet were providing odds; could clean up nicely.

It sounds to me as if you are almost excited about it.

Are you going to be putting on a few slabs at your place to celebrate?

Shame on you.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

I know it's going back many, many years but this probably wouldn't be happening had GM not bought Holden those long decades ago.

Would have stayed an Australian company like Mercedes is German and Bentley is British etc. and Holdens could have been sold globally as uniquely Australian vehicles instead of the company being dictated by its US parent.

As others have pointed out, you're wrong about what Holden would have become had GM not bought them out. But the point you're making is spot on. The debate on who's to blame can go around in circles for ever, but by far the biggest reason we wont be manufacturing cars in this country for much longer is the fact that we never had a locally owned car company. If we did, and they were competent, they would have made very different product decisions over the last few decades than what we've seen from Ford and Holden. They would be actively chasing export opportunities, and anything else that would make them viable. But with Ford and Holden, they have accountants in Detroit trying to save money - they cant wait to get out of Australia! Who would blame them?

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

The bigger tragedy is if Toyota closes as a result of Holden's demise. Unlike Ford and GMH, Toyota have actively pursued and maintained a strong export base with annual output from Altona being in excess of 100k units. They've dealt ethically with the government and have done far more than both FoA and GMH combined to stay in Australia.

The government should be looking at this in the context of "if we don't prop up an incompetent, small-scale and unproductive car maker then a competent, large-scale and (relatively) productive car maker will fall too".

See I dont think losing Toyota is anywhere near as bad as losing Ford and Holden, because they don't do any R&D in this country. They just whack together Camrys that are entirely designed and developed overseas. They don't provide the high skilled engineering and design jobs on the level that Ford and Holden have. All those talented people who gave us the Falcon and Commodore will have no choice but to look overseas for a similar level of employment.

[danzvtil]

See I dont think losing Toyota is anywhere near as bad as losing Ford and Holden, because they don't do any R&D in this country. They just whack together Camrys that are entirely designed and developed overseas. They don't provide the high skilled engineering and design jobs on the level that Ford and Holden have. All those talented people who gave us the Falcon and Commodore will have no choice but to look overseas for a similar level of employment.[/QUOTE]

This is the exact reason why toyota SHOULD succeed in manufacturing here, they dont have the R+D burden of an orphan model not suited to any other market. They are able to amortize that development across 8 or 9 other plants worldwide that make the IDENTICAL model.The only reason toyota will make the next gen camry here is if the Middle East supply contract is won.The cynic in me says with Taiwan,Thailand and China camry factories all putting their hat in the ring to send cars to UAE, we have a snowballs chance in hell.

[EBII Fairmont]

[QUOTE=See I dont think losing Toyota is anywhere near as bad as losing Ford and Holden, because they don't do any R&D in this country. They just whack together Camrys that are entirely designed and developed overseas. They don't provide the high skilled engineering and design jobs on the level that Ford and Holden have. All those talented people who gave us the Falcon and Commodore will have no choice but to look overseas for a similar level of employment.[/QUOTE]

I don't know about Holden, but ford aren't totally packing it in. The R&D sector will still operate out of Broady and there will be test cars sent through the proving grounds. There will be all engineers here and no plants.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

See I dont think losing Toyota is anywhere near as bad as losing Ford and Holden, because they don't do any R&D in this country. They just whack together Camrys that are entirely designed and developed overseas. They don't provide the high skilled engineering and design jobs on the level that Ford and Holden have. All those talented people who gave us the Falcon and Commodore will have no choice but to look overseas for a similar level of employment.

Hey, um, look at this.


Toyota Technical Center Australia

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by TC200six

Anyone game enough to predict when Holden will announce closure? Early next year, or will they last longer than I think?

March-April. They waited for Ford too do it and take the heat off them especially with the handouts they have had. Don't have to be an accountant to work out if you sell something for $500 but costs you $700 which way your business is going.