Ford CEO says 'partial electrification' is more than 'transitional'

[jpd80]

Ford CEO says 'partial electrification' is more than 'transitional'

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bu...l/73905508007/

Ford Motor Co. CEO Jim Farley said Thursday that "partial electrification" options like hybrids and extended-range electric vehicles are more than just "transitional" technologies.

The auto industry over the past year has reevaluated all-electric vehicle adoption timelines, given affordability and range challenges. Ford and others have reemphasized hybrid technologies or said they are reintroducing them in the coming years. The circumstances and China's strength in new-energy and advanced driving assistance systems have convinced Farley the company must be able to compete at the low-priced end of the market.


“ I come here at this moment in time as a CEO much clearer about our executional priorities," Farley said at the Bernstein Annual Strategic Decisions Conference. "And the way we need to make our way through this successfully to be a great company is a lot clearer than it was last year."

Partial electrification, Farley said, is increasingly part of that solution, noting that the hybrid F-150 truck represents a quarter of sales. Beyond hybrids and plug-in hybrids, the category includes extended-range electric vehicles, or EREVs. Typically, they're vehicles that run fully off batteries, but have a generator, usually a combustion engine, onboard that recharges the battery, extending its range. The combination allows the vehicles to have a smaller battery, which represents most of the cost of an EV.


“ EREVs in the U.S. could be 120 miles of all-electric, and they drive like EVs," Farley said. "They don't drive like combustion engine vehicles, so you get an EV, and you have 700 miles of range. You don't have range anxiety for a long trip. You don't have to rely on any charges. And those vehicles have half the batteries, so they're very profitable."

The fitness test for an automaker, he said, will be how quickly a company can adopt an in-between technology like this: "We really like that solution," Farley said about EREVs.


The technology, however, begs the question of how regulators will see it, since it's not a zero-carbon emissions vehicle like traditional EVs, though most trips would be able to be run all-electric, because they're short-distance. Former Ram CEO Tim Kuniskis said Ramcharger sales would count toward Stellantis' EV goals.

“ We're going to have to talk to all the regulators," Farley said, "because they really bet on pure EVs, but EREVs in China are really the growing part of the EV market."

More at the story link…..

So Ford is about to pivot again to hybrids and PHEVs with bigger batteries.
Good if this means more interesting vehicles for our market but I have a feeling
that Ford is not looking beyond Left Hand Drive markets like US, Europe and China…

For the record, I’m glad to be proven wrong on this…(I often am)

[Franco Cozzo]

There'll be a different CEO next year anyway who is like a Roomba that hits a road block and goes beep boop and turns off in a different direction

That company can't make a decision and stick with it, it's like it has corporate autism

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

There'll be a different CEO next year anyway who is like a Roomba that hits a road block and goes beep boop and turns off in a different direction

That company can't make a decision and stick with it, it's like it has corporate autism

**You used to be a bigger man, Damo.

[Dr Smith]

Regulators can regulate all they want but governments need voters to stay in power and if voters aren't buying pure EV's they are not going to like being forced into it....self-interest is a powerful incentive.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Regulators can regulate all they want but governments need voters to stay in power and if voters aren't buying pure EV's they are not going to like being forced into it....self-interest is a powerful incentive.

Ford convinced itself that a full line BEV future was closer than it actually is and sent thousands
of their most talented conventional vehicle engineering and development staff down the road.
Now Jim Farley realises his mistake and wants to change course…..great, now go out and try to
hire everyone back.

On a lot of this I just don’t know anymore, I used to think that corporates hired smart researchers
to keep their finger on the pulse of what customers want but the more I look, it’s all about
carmakers making the most profit on fewest necessary builds, everyone else not the buyer.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

On a lot of this I just don’t know anymore, I used to think that corporates hired smart researchers
to keep their finger on the pulse of what customers want but the more I look, it’s all about
carmakers making the most profit on fewest necessary builds, everyone else not the buyer.

I appreciate your optimism

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I appreciate your optimism

If I sound bitter it’s because I recently shopped for a new vehicle for my wife,
Ford had nothing we liked so dropped $58,000 cash on a new Mazda ($8,400 discount).

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

If I sound bitter it’s because I recently shopped for a new vehicle for my wife,
Ford had nothing we liked so dropped $58,000 cash on a new Mazda ($8,400 discount).

Sprintey had the best idea going - just make everything on the Ranger platform

Small hatch? Ranger based
Performance coupe? Ranger based

[kevino]

I take it you don’t like Rangers and Everest’s JPD?
Cause that’s all they have presently.
Chickens are going to come home to roost for Ford Ute Aus soon
And I am seeing a lot of Rangers and Everests in rental car fleets here on the Gc.

[simon varley]

Farley may have been in the company for years, but frankly, as CEO, he has absolutely NFI!

[CyberWasp]

Before getting carried away with Hybrids and what not, why not learn how to make a vehicle in RHD 1st. It is really not hard.

Well known companies like Zeekr, Jaecoo, Xpeng, Leapmotor Skywell, GAC, Aion and Jetour, all know what a RHD vehicle is and are lining up to ship cars here in the next 12 months.
These guys are perceived as Junk and have Zero market credibility, but to them it is worth while in flipping the wheel over to the other side and giving it a red hot go.

Why....because that is what Global Car Manufacturer does. Sell Cars in all parts of the Market and steal sales off competitors

Jim Farley you are a disgrace.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Before getting carried away with Hybrids and what not, why not learn how to make a vehicle in RHD 1st. It is really not hard.

not hard, but in the global sense not worth it. How many countries are RHD, and how many cars do they buy? A total of 75 countries drive on the left, but the vast majority of them are poor and have very low sales. Of the richer, higher sales countries:

UK 2 million new cars in 2023
Australia 1.2 million
India 4 million
South Africa 0.5 million
Thailand 0.75 million


sounds a lot, until you realise that the new car market in the US is over 15 million cars on its own. That's why they don't bother to make RHD versions.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by simon varley

not hard, but in the global sense not worth it. How many countries are RHD, and how many cars do they buy? A total of 75 countries drive on the left, but the vast majority of them are poor and have very low sales. Of the richer, higher sales countries:

UK 2 million new cars in 2023
Australia 1.2 million
India 4 million
South Africa 0.5 million
Thailand 0.75 million


sounds a lot, until you realise that the new car market in the US is over 15 million cars on its own. That's why they don't bother to make RHD versions.

And Japan

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

And Japan

Ford never seemed to make inroads in Japan at all, maybe they're protecting their own market or something.

Or usual lack of brains at the C-suite of executives at head office.

Why the Japanese don’t buy American cars

But industry observers chalk the admittedly glaring disparity up to the unique characteristics of the Japanese auto market: American firms don’t really make cars that suit Japanese tastes, Americans have not invested in a dealership presence in the country, and many Japanese consumers have a persistent, if outdated, idea that American vehicles are unreliable and inefficient.

Roughly 40 percent of the cars sold in Japan are a special class of extra small cars call Kei cars. Nearly all of those are sold by Japanese brands, such as Suzuki and Daihatsu. Japan is a crowded country, and drivers like the convenience and efficiency of small vehicles that are easy to maneuver on narrow streets or fit into tight parking spaces.

“In Japan, there is a different market and different consumer,” said Kristin Dziczek, vice president of industry, labor & economics at the Center for Automotive Research. Although U.S. autos aren’t taxed going into Japan, American cars aren’t made for Japanese consumers. “We are giving them our off-cast, things we make for the North American consumer that we hope we can then sell in other markets.”

Japanese automakers are so adept at serving their home turf that about 95 percent of the cars on Japanese roads are Japanese makes. Imports make up the balance, and most of those are European luxury vehicles or sports cars.

Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Volkswagen including Audi, all sell tens of thousands of cars in Japan each year. While that is still a pretty small number compared with the overall local market and other major markets, it isn’t nothing, said Tokyo-based CLSA analyst Christopher Richter.

American carmakers “don’t really try,” Richter said. Ford left Japan entirely in 2017. GM sold only about 700 cars there in 2018.

The trouble for American brands is that it is tough to compete against comparable Japanese vehicles without differentiating themselves in some way, he said.

That is perhaps what accounts for the popularity of Fiat Chrysler’s Jeep brand. Almost invariably, the Jeeps that Richter sees in Japan are Wranglers, which is the model perhaps most emblematic of the brand and the rugged, outdoor American lifestyle it symbolizes. The Jeep brand has a strikingly strong image abroad, said Rebecca Lindland, an independent auto analyst.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/23/toyo...-in-japan.html

So basically we just can't be ****ed putting in any effort, seems like Japan doesn't want a Ford Ranger and its just all too hard

Japan moves 4.8 million new cars a year, taking into account the RHD markets theres 13.25 million cars on the table that they can get a slice of if they put in some effort.

I don't get this mentality of 'Oh I've got enough sales, I don't need to get anymore' - if I had someone on my sales team like that they'd be shown the door real quick after a slap over the back of the head.

Even taking into account opportunity cost, I reckon they're leaving a lot on the table.

40% of Japan's car sales are Kei cars - make a scaled down version of the single cab Ranger to Kei dimensions and put a destroked 999cc Ecoboost engine to 653cc in it.

To qualify as a kei car, an automobile has to be no taller than 2 metres, no wider than 1.45 metres and no longer than 3.4 metres. In terms of engine displacement, the maximum allowed is 660 cc. There's no official limit on engine power, but it's very unusual for a factory kei car to have more than 47 kW.

There you go, 'low effort' project on the back of a key platform you already have, that you've already sunk the development costs on the majority of it, that covers over a third of what Japanese consumers buy.

Is it going to be perfect? No, the other kei trucks are cab over,

But its an entry point to test the waters in a segment that covers over a third of their new car market, if you had a set of balls on you.

Maybe there needs to be a fun competition within Ford, CEO comes out and runs a competition internally amongst all their engineering departments globally and says hey take a bunch of engineers, and do this in your spare time, winning team gets $250,000 USD to share amongst themselves.

Suddenly 5 propeller hats from each of their engineering teams globally start burning the midnight oil on a fun side project out of hours to win big.

Whats $250,000 USD to Ford?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ford never seemed to make inroads in Japan at all, maybe they're protecting their own market or something.

Or usual lack of brains at the C-suite of executives at head office.



https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/23/toyo...-in-japan.html

So basically we just can't be ****ed putting in any effort, seems like Japan doesn't want a Ford Ranger and its just all too hard

Japan moves 4.8 million new cars a year, taking into account the RHD markets theres 13.25 million cars on the table that they can get a slice of if they put in some effort.

I don't get this mentality of 'Oh I've got enough sales, I don't need to get anymore' - if I had someone on my sales team like that they'd be shown the door real quick after a slap over the back of the head.

Even taking into account opportunity cost, I reckon they're leaving a lot on the table.

40% of Japan's car sales are Kei cars - make a scaled down version of the single cab Ranger to Kei dimensions and put a destroked 999cc Ecoboost engine to 653cc in it.



There you go, 'low effort' project on the back of a key platform you already have, that you've already sunk the development costs on the majority of it, that covers over a third of what Japanese consumers buy.

Is it going to be perfect? No, the other kei trucks are cab over,

But its an entry point to test the waters in a segment that covers over a third of their new car market, if you had a set of balls on you.

Maybe there needs to be a fun competition within Ford, CEO comes out and runs a competition internally amongst all their engineering departments globally and says hey take a bunch of engineers, and do this in your spare time, winning team gets $250,000 USD to share amongst themselves.

Suddenly 5 propeller hats from each of their engineering teams globally start burning the midnight oil on a fun side project out of hours to win big.

Whats $250,000 USD to Ford?

Having been in Japan for two weeks last month several things really stood out which align exactly as you quoted like virtually no Ford or US vehicles on the road in Japan.

Firstly, their public transport system is so good and cheap (metro lines not so much the inter-city services which had big fare increases last year) you run clocks by the train departures and not the other way around…it means you don’t really need a car in the major cities as train stations are almost every 2 blocks and the urban sprawl of large outer suburbs like in Melbourne don’t really exist. And you can do a huge amount of shopping or food purchases within these stations underground.

Interesting observation, very little on street parking in Tokyo or Osaka, no bike lanes either…again because of exceptional public transport, plus I don't think you can own a car without over-night parking for it in Tokyo.

Struggled to see any Fords anywhere…spotted two Rangers the whole time, a Mustang and that was about if. Plenty of Jeeps, mostly all were Wranglers as described plus several Chryslers.

Delivery vehicles were very rarely anything ever over 3 tonners, I expected far more vans like HiAce’s but much more of the small Kei commercial vehicles, I kept thinking I could park that inside my Transit Custom or Vito.

It’s just too difficult to get into some of the retail/commercial areas with large trucks as there is virtually no on-street parking on front of retail/commercial areas like what you see here in Oz for beverage/daily consumables/dry goods deliveries etc...supplies etc…

Pretty much everything in Japan just effin'works.

Lower yen means a can of Coke is just over $1AUD and can of JD & Coke in a Japanese 7Eleven store is around $2AUD.....

[Franco Cozzo]

We certainly punch above our weight considering our population in new car sales,

As far as a RHD markets goes we're a key player for sure.

Key player for utes

India is rapidly industrializing so that four million is going to turn into 10 million sooner rather than later, I reckon by 2030.

[jpd80]

Here’s the deal as explained to me, the majority of Ford’s profits comes from
F Series trucks, Ranger (plus Bronco/Everest) and Transit RWD & FWD vans.

Everything else in US /Europe is either breakeven, a small profit or controlled loss.
These vehicles fall into the category of products for dealers to sell and service but in
the last decade, Ford has made big efforts to improve profitability through higher prices
which in turn have reduced sales and builds which in turn prevents supply to ROW markets.

In our market, Ford embracing Ranger and Everest has been totally vindicated
as FoA’s prime profit generators, I hope they get a seat at the table to expand
on that with other vehicles that give Ford a distinct advantage over competition.

In my situation, had Ford offered something like a soft road, low ride height Everest
as a petrol RWD, we would have seriously considered (bought). I accept the reasons
why such a vehicle is not possible right now but may be something worth considering
if Europe and USA remain unable to supply even the basic suite of showroom vehicles
to Australia. Maybe Ford AUS engineering can adapt local solutions/regional vehicles
that can fly under the radar with costs.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jpd80

In my situation, had Ford offered something like a soft road, low ride height Everest
as a petrol RWD, we would have seriously considered (bought). I accept the reasons
why such a vehicle is not possible right now but may be something worth considering
if Europe and USA remain unable to supply even the basic suite of showroom vehicles
to Australia. Maybe Ford AUS engineering can adapt local solutions/regional vehicles
that can fly under the radar with costs.

There's a lot of little ones and twos on the table up for grabs that they're constantly overlooking, things that wouldn't take too much effort to cater for either, I think one of the problem is Thailand doesn't do Ecoboost engines or something, and they have to come from South Africa, hence why Ecoboost Amarok comes from South Africa for our market.

I don't think its 'unable' its 'not interested' and there's no drive at Ford Australia to actually fight for it either, plus we're a shitty little outpost on the *** end of the world they rotate CEOs through that are going to be pensioned out, we love playing musical CEOs.

They're happy sitting on Ranger and Everest sales, but they're under threat from new platforms from other manufacturers, Kia has a ute coming onboard soon, Hilux will be coming due for a refresh, and there's also the political climate at the moment who can torpedo the Ranger/Everest twins with a stroke of a pen with emissions schemes like we saw go through parliament recently (how hard did Toyota and the others come out the gate to lobby the government - tells you something).

When was the last CEO with drive that Ford Australia had, Geoff Polites? The guy died nearly 20 years ago now.

Pretty sure they fired the majority of their Ranger engineering team here in Australia,

Realistically I don't think Ford Australia is going to exist as an engineering hub by the end of this decade, they'll be based in Thailand/China as a low cost engineering team for Ford Asia Pacific once they come up to speed.

We haven't been the 'Pacific Mexicans' for a long time now, which is what attracted the US giants to Australia in the first place.

We don't have a political climate interested in attracting business and opportunities from overseas, if anything we're openly hostile to it politically these days.

If its not property or digging shit up out of the ground to sell to China, then we're not interested.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Pretty sure they fired the majority of their Ranger engineering team here in Australia.

No, that's incorrect, I made that mistaken assumption a while back.

There are still over 1400 engineers at Ford Australia, 99% of them are attached to T6
(% According to Fordman1)

Keep in mind that those engineers are responsible for developing periodic updates of
all models, Bronco, Rangers, Everest and Amarok…..that’s still a huge commitment
over the complete product cycle and most likely into the early 2030s

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

No, that's incorrect, I made that mistaken assumption a while back.

There are still over 1400 engineers at Ford Australia, 99% of them are attached to T6
(% According to Fordman1)

Keep in mind that those engineers are responsible for developing periodic updates of
all models, Bronco, Rangers, Everest and Amarok…..that’s still a huge commitment
over the complete product cycle and most likely into the early 2030s

To add to this and without giving too much away, I was told that Ford China has the level of engineering ability to "top hat a platform" from another Ford engineering base. Obviously, that can and may change but not going to happen for a while.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

To add to this and without giving too much away, I was told that Ford China has the level of engineering ability to "top hat a platform" from another Ford engineering base. Obviously, that can and may change but not going to happen for a while.

Interesting, thanks for sharing that Doc, I’ve often wondered whether the Chinese Territory
from the Yusheng S330 was a ground up Chinese platform or a clever reuse of previous
Ford engineering. Either way, I sure wish they would produce RHD versions for our region….

There’s gotta be a way for Ford to leverage their Chinese assets to produce more vehicle types
for our region instead of relying on Europe and USA.

[simon varley]

Ford and the China JVs (and Ford itself in nanjing) seems to be a constant stop/start business. They invested heavily in the new proving ground but afaik it never really got used much. the various JVs for top hat and Renger/Everest products seem to constantly stall before they really get going. Part of the problem is clearly around commercial confidentiality but it seems more must be going on.

BTW, yes, the engineering team was gutted last year in May (me) and September both as a planned downturn, and then later as a global haircut. All body interior and exterio design work for T6 is now run out of India. Powertrain is now largely in Brazil and Mexico. Vehicle Engineering was halved! Pretty much the only team left intact is the chassis team, and once PHEV and SuperDuty are finished, I wouldn't give them too much longer. Given that most prototypes now get shipped overseas, I can't see it being too long before someone questions why we still build them here, and then that really will be the start of the end I'm afraid.

[Rastas]

Farley just got a close up looky at BYD's 6th gen Hybrid Tech that gives it's vehicles 2000 - 2500kms per tank ...... and has decided that's the way to go - can't blame him honestly.

[Sprintey]

That tech sounds really good!

Meanwhile on the docks

https://au.news.yahoo.com/tesla-grav...222758407.html

[Sprintey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWqDFSGn23o

& video, Paul's interview and final takeaway is pretty classic

[Dr Smith]

I guess the test is I order a Tesla (no options) today how long will I wait?
...
edit just went to order page and quoted 1-3 weeks wait for delivery on a stock standard Tesla 3...so it seems there is stock readily available, at least for my config.

Changed to a 3 with every option ticked and July-Sept delivery date...

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I guess the test is I order a Tesla (no options) today how long will I wait?
...
edit just went to order page and quoted 1-3 weeks wait for delivery on a stock standard Tesla 3...so it seems there is stock readily available, at least for my config.

Changed to a 3 with every option ticked and July-Sept delivery date...

Looking at the photo of the holding area, a lot of them look like Tesla Y’s.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/tesla-grav...alian%20market.

Wow, it’s VFacts May 2024 and Ford sold over 8,800 last month
Ranger 5,912
Everest 2,110

Guess it’s time for a new thread guys…..

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...r-record-month