German V Australian Car Culture

[vztrt]

A really good article from the car advice mob.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/30280/ge...n-car-culture/

German Vs Australian Car Culture

I’m moving to Germany. There is no questioning it now. I can’t work out how I am going to survive in Australia when I come back, so the best option is to stay here. Let me tell you why.



I just came back from the Nurburgring, the home of modern motorsports. The track is a sight that has to be seen. M3, M3, M5, M3, Porsche GT3, GT2, GT3 RS, M3, M3 CSL, Nissan GT-R, M3, M3, McLaren SLR, F430 Scuderia, EVO IX, EVO X, STI, Lotus Exige, and all on a normal Sunday morning.

You pay about A$50 and you can do as many laps as your car can take. Depending on how good you are, each lap can take around 10 minutes, anything under that is a reasonable time.



We also met Sabine Schmidt (the Nurburgring girl - you may remember her from TopGear with the van) who was taking tourists around in the Ring-Taxis (M5). She would get it sideways around a few corners and then scream past.

The ‘ring alone is reason enough to move to Germany, but that’s just the icing on the cake. The main reason to move here is the car culture.



“Oh you’re in an M5, I’m in a Volvo. Sorry sir, let me move over and let you pass” - “Oh, you indicated left because I am going slow in the fast lane, sorry, let me move over instantly and not give you the finger as you go past”.

We even met a few car lovers, one of them invited us back to his house, where he had a collection of old but very quick BMWs.



Unlike Australia, the faster your car is in Germany, the more respect you get on the road.



Everyone from little children to grandmothers love cars. In fact while we were at ABT, we saw an old Audi S2 tuned to over 450bhp, owned by a 74-year-old grandmother, no joke. If someone can find me a 74-year-old Australian grandmother with a 450bhp+ car, I might reconsider my decision.

We drove 503km from ABT, at Kempten, to Brabham Racing, 20km away from the Nurburgring, in about three hours, and didn’t run out of fuel this time.



Anthony was competing with a Porsche Panamera whilst George and I were listening to Sunshine 106.1 (Armin Van Buuren was playing - music would be another reason to move here) and maintaining an average speed of 180km/h, in our Focus stationwagon.

I am trying to imagine the look on an Australian police officer’s face if they pulled me over for doing 180km/h in a Focus. I’d be on front page of the newspaper the next day “Idiot Hoon does 80km/h more than the speed limit”.



What about in the ABT R8? 320km/h? Can you imagine the headline? I’d be a national celebrity overnight. “Madman goes 320km/h, sentenced to five years in jail”.

Anthony came up with a good analogy, it feels like we’ve been let out of jail for a month.

Whilst I was driving the ABT tuned AS5R at a cruisy 200km/h I saw a cop in the right lane (slow lane). My instant reaction was “Oh god, ticket!”. I hit the brakes, pulled in behind him and followed at about 130km/h.



Thirty seconds later an M3 went past us at about 190km/h. The cop didn’t even look. 20 more seconds went by and and an M6 came screaming past at around 250km/h. Cop stayed still. Then I realised, oh, yes, I forgot, this is legal.

Can you believe going 250km/h past a police car on a public road can be legal? Can you imagine what an Australian police highway patrol car would do to you if you did this on an Australian highway?



It almost makes you depressed thinking about the difference in car culture. The last time I got pulled over for speeding (18km/h over) in Brisbane, the kind Cop gave me a grilling as if I was responsible for every death on the road.

Can we please bring every single person that has anything to do with setting up speed limits and transport guidelines to Germany? Just for one week?



At this point some of you are thinking, sure it may work in Germany but the autobahns are far better highways than what we have in Australia. Not entirely true.

The M1 Pacific Highway, from Brisbane to Gold Coast, for example, is actually larger than any autobahn I’ve encountered to date. Our lanes are wider and our main roads are just as smooth. So why can’t we go past 110km/h?

Is it the cars? Perhaps, but there are just as many old cars here as there are in Australia, guess what? They stay in the slow lanes, they go 110km/h, the fast cars go 250km/h+ past them, no one complains. The slow go slow, the fast go fast, everyone is happy. Why is this so hard to comprehend?



We were filming the Brabham BT92 today at the Nurburgring and just witnessing the difference in attitude to speed and cars was amazing.

At one moment whilst we were filming the ‘ring, a few German’s started playing AC/DC (Thunderstruck) and it reminded us of Bathurst, but a Ferrari F430 followed by a Porsche GT3 RS and an EVO X went past quickly, oh yes, not Bathurst.



As if the cars aren’t enough, I witnessed with my own eyes, gorgeous beautiful women standing around admiring the cars. I don’t need to die to go to heaven, I found it at the Nurburgring.

No one is doing the ‘pinky’ in Germany. The people here love cars because they love cars, no one does random burnouts in the street, when the autobahn does have a speed limit (road works for example), EVERYONE obeys.



What’s so different in our two cultures that all of this seems so strange? Why is going 320km/h a jail worthy crime in Australia and perfectly legal in Germany?



Why do people get so frightened when we go 20km/h over the speed limit in Australia?

“Slow down stupid”?. No, I don’t think so. “Learn to drive, Stupid”.

[Auslandau]

Great article! Having been in Germany, its all so true. So hard to get used to it there and even harder to get used to it when you come home .....

Sums it up really.

Why do people get so frightened when we go 20km/h over the speed limit in Australia?

“Slow down stupid”?. No, I don’t think so. “Learn to drive, Stupid”.

It has alot to being alert and considerate over there as well. People will move over, let you in and are just more willing to SHARE the road with everyone else.



| [/url] |

[platinumXR]

Originally Posted by auslandau

Great article! Having been in Germany, its all so true. So hard to get used to it there and even harder to get used to it when you come home .....

Sums it up really.

It has alot to being alert and considerate over there as well. People will move over, let you in and are just more willing to SHARE the road with everyone else.

BAN LOW PERFORMANCE DRIVERS NOT HIGH PERFORMANCE CARS : : :

[Swordsman88]

Originally Posted by platinumXR

BAN LOW PERFORMANCE DRIVERS NOT HIGH PERFORMANCE CARS : : :

I had a sticker on my car's back windscreen with this exact statement. Few people noticed and commented on it. Two police officers in a brisbane car park saw it and thought it meant my car was obviously illegal somehow. THey went out of their way to walk over to teh front of my car to see if it was too low i suppose. Though it was lowered it wasn't anywhere near illegal, so they walked away. That incident showed the type of 'car culture' in australia these days. Pathetic - no i wasn't a hoon officer, i'm just a car enthusiast. And one that knows how to drive thankyou!!!!

[snappy]

great read, but frustrating because its true

[platinumXR]

Got a spare room at your place while I look for my own?


[IMG]://[/IMG]


:sm_drool: :sm_drool: :sm_drool:

[ST]

The stupid thing about this article is that Germany's road statistics are far worse than Australia's.

Did the guy writing this even bother to read the accident/fatality rate in Germany when he asked why can't we travel 320km/h legally? Obviously not. The problem here is European's CAN'T drive, they just have their head so far up their *** they think they can.

If someone has to ask why Australia has realistically speed limited roads they need their head inspected. I wouldn't say they aren't too strict, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

[macca13]

Originally Posted by ST

The stupid thing about this article is that Germany's road statistics are far worse than Australia's.

Did the guy writing this even bother to read the accident/fatality rate in Germany when he asked why can't we travel 320km/h legally? Obviously not. The problem here is European's CAN'T drive, they just have their head so far up their *** they think they can.

If someone has to ask why Australia has realistically speed limited roads they need their head inspected. I wouldn't say they aren't too strict, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

Let see after 5 minutes searching Australia ranked 11th in world with 8 deaths per 100,000 people Germany ranked 9th with 6.5 deaths per 100,000 people this was 2007 though.

[barbarian]

Originally Posted by ST

The stupid thing about this article is that Germany's road statistics are far worse than Australia's.

Did the guy writing this even bother to read the accident/fatality rate in Germany when he asked why can't we travel 320km/h legally? Obviously not. The problem here is European's CAN'T drive, they just have their head so far up their *** they think they can.

If someone has to ask why Australia has realistically speed limited roads they need their head inspected. I wouldn't say they aren't too strict, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

Originally Posted by macca13

Let see after 5 minutes searching Australia ranked 11th in world with 8 deaths per 100,000 people Germany ranked 9th with 6.5 deaths per 100,000 people this was 2007 though.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by ST

The stupid thing about this article is that Germany's road statistics are far worse than Australia's.

Did the guy writing this even bother to read the accident/fatality rate in Germany when he asked why can't we travel 320km/h legally? Obviously not. The problem here is European's CAN'T drive, they just have their head so far up their *** they think they can.

If someone has to ask why Australia has realistically speed limited roads they need their head inspected. I wouldn't say they aren't too strict, but they have to draw the line somewhere.

There is a big problem with trying to draw conclusions based purely on deaths per 100,000 people. The biggest is that we do not get the appalling road conditons that they get in europe. For example, when was the last time you drove on snow or ice? I do regularly, but not to the extent that they get in europe. Last big frost we had a 19yo girl killed her best friend on a mild corner. I drove past 5 mins before, and it was very very slippery. TC light flashing most of the way at 50km/h. She lost control and went straight into oncoming traffic. No skills at car control or appropriate speed. It is a 100km/h section. Sad. But the conditions we have here in general are very mild. That in itself tends to skew the data.

[satria]

problem is our roads aren't "realistically speed limited"... if you think they are your head is so far up your own *** its not funny.

[Peuty]

Reads like a "Why Germany is better than Australia" article to me. Both country has it's merits, I wouldn't move there because of those reasons alone.

[ST]

Originally Posted by satria

problem is our roads aren't "realistically speed limited"... if you think they are your head is so far up your own *** its not funny.

"I wouldn't say they aren't too strict, but they have to draw the line somewhere."

If they raised the national average highway speed limit to 120 today, people would be shouting 140 tomorrow. While our speed limits are quite low and heavily enforced they do make a difference to road safety.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by ST

While our speed limits are quite low and heavily enforced they do make a difference to road safety.

But driver education would make a bigger difference... but there's no money (revenue) in that.

Unfortunately Australian drivers have always had the "I have to be in front" attitude.

[GasoLane]

Peuty your PM box is FULL!!!

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Peuty your PM box is FULL!!!

Not anymore!

[SB076]

Originally Posted by ST

"I wouldn't say they aren't too strict, but they have to draw the line somewhere."

If they raised the national average highway speed limit to 120 today, people would be shouting 140 tomorrow. While our speed limits are quite low and heavily enforced they do make a difference to road safety.

Wouldnt it be best to set the speed limit's at a safe realistic speed regardless of what everyone is shouting about. I think our speed limits should be overhauled, simplified (simply reducing the no. of speed limit changes on stretches of road) and increased where possible.

I spent some time in tassie recently and was impressed with how their speed limits are set up, very simple plus a lot of the dual carriage ways I drove on where 110 (even when close to a city - unlike Melbourne/Victoria, where you need to be out in the country on a divided road)

[ST]

EDIT: Actually let me ask this very simple question; if we adopted Germany's speed limits (including non-speed limits) tomorrow what effect do you think this would have on Australia's road toll?

[cycle myth]

An article I read once (can't recall the reference) outlined that German Autobahns as the safest in the work for distance traveled.

AND would be even better if the accidents from adverse weather are removed (ie. 100 car pile ups in fog).

I've driven in every Australian state - I've driven in Germany.

The difference is unfortunately very obvious:

we are no where in comparison

bad driving culture

much worse roads

police mentality that speed = deaths, but driving bad is ok because you can't measure that with a speed (sorry safety) camera.

[Peuty]

Originally Posted by cycle myth

police mentality that speed = deaths, but driving bad is ok because you can't measure that with a speed (sorry safety) camera.

Man you are so far off it's not funny.

Firstly, you forget that the police do not make the rules, they simply enforce them. It might surprise you to know that some of the biggest petrolheads I know are Police.

Secondly, where do you get the idea that dangerous driving is okay?

[Swordsman88]

You couldn't just apply the speed limits from germany here in one step, clealry. FOr one our roads are worse in most places and our drivers aren't used to it.

BUT, you can apply a few things:

focus on driver training and value for your license. Its too easy to get your license in australia, without any reasonable training. People don't value their license like they would their reputatoin or their career. THey should.

For those roads that do meet sufficient standards, raise the speed limit (i wouldn't make it unlimited except teh NT etc.) and train drivers to keep left and have respect for other road users. Driving at 130km/h on the M1 with proper lane discipline is not in of itself any more dangerous than 110km/h we do now. It shortens the trip a bit and reduces fatigue related incidents. Sure if you have a shunt it could cause more damage, but at 110km/h your stuffed anyway....

shift the focus from primarily speed to a range of issues. Drink driving was very effectively attacked in the past and it worked...alot less deaths (though still some) from this issue. Seatbelts etc. Now we need driving standards, the % death at intersections makes the speeding issue seem so stupid. Its far greater.

We can't just take the german system, but we can learn from it.

[cycle myth]

Originally Posted by Peuty

Man you are so far off it's not funny.

Firstly, you forget that the police do not make the rules, they simply enforce them. It might surprise you to know that some of the biggest petrolheads I know are Police.

Secondly, where do you get the idea that dangerous driving is okay?

Yes - you are right Police enforce the rules - they also administer the collection of data on why accidents occur - there's issues when the speed reason box is ticked too man times - it just perpetuates the ignorance.

As a society would should be more up in arms that the enforcement agencies are pursuing the easy measure - (speed with a camera + revenue) and it doesn't pull the driver over and stop them - an actual police presence would together with other bad driving habits that cameras don't measure - AND ULTIMATELY SAVE LIVES.

... and I never said driving bad was ok - theres a bit of sarcasm in there somewhere - (I'm on the mark enough to spot that).

[RG]

Some of the posts in here really have left me scratching my head.

Engage brain before clicking "Submit Reply" is something a few here need to do.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by ST

EDIT: Actually let me ask this very simple question; if we adopted Germany's speed limits (including non-speed limits) tomorrow what effect do you think this would have on Australia's road toll?

It would sky rocket substantially....

Just like early settlers that visited islands full of natives and gave them small pox and other common European illnesses.

The effect was dramatic almost instant. They didn't have years of immunity.

And nor do we. We can't go from our sedate and casual driving style to one with high speed roads and very regimented road rules instantly.

It would need to be introduced gradually, so we can change our ways to adapt to it.

[SVD]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

It would sky rocket substantially....

Just like early settlers that visited islands full of natives and gave them small pox and other common European illnesses.

The effect was dramatic almost instant. They didn't have years of immunity.

And nor do we. We can't go from our sedate and casual driving style to one with high speed roads and very regimented road rules instantly.

It would need to be introduced gradually, so we can change our ways to adapt to it.

I don't think that is 100% true, i reckon you'd see speed camera revenue drop by millions of dollars and the road toll would most likely grow a bit from people thinking they can do the High speeds without learning how to drive first.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by ST

EDIT: Actually let me ask this very simple question; if we adopted Germany's speed limits (including non-speed limits) tomorrow what effect do you think this would have on Australia's road toll?

I havn't been to Germany myself but my brother has and said there is no comparison between an Autobahn and our Highways.

For us to have any rules in comparison it would mean major upgrades that cost money to build a road that wouldn't make any money (Speeding fines) which means it will never happen :togo: Not to mention genrations of people scared to go 10km/h over the limit due to TT or ACA telling us how "Dangerous" it is while they show oldies that take 10mins to get to 60km/h and they are still "Safe" drivers.. Driver Re-Education would take a long time and not to mention cost more $$$...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ST

EDIT: Actually let me ask this very simple question; if we adopted Germany's speed limits (including non-speed limits) tomorrow what effect do you think this would have on Australia's road toll?

I am very interested to read your expert opinion as to why ever since the open speed limits were removed from the Northern Territory (2007) the road toll has gone UP significantly.

[troppo]

Originally Posted by ST

EDIT: Actually let me ask this very simple question; if we adopted Germany's speed limits (including non-speed limits) tomorrow what effect do you think this would have on Australia's road toll?

I'll answer that by pointing out that in the two years since open limits were removed on NT roads in favour of a 130km/h limit, the road toll increased dramatically, last year being significantly worse than the previous.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by troppo

I'll answer that by pointing out that in the two years since open limits were removed on NT roads in favour of a 130km/h limit, the road toll increased dramatically, last year being significantly worse than the previous.

True,

However is there anything that can show this stat as a % of cars that use the road?

It is a contradiction that the number of deaths have gone up.. you would think it would have gone down.

If anyone does much driving on the major freeways in and out of the major cities you will be amazed at the general lack of courtesy and skill displayed by drivers.

I do around 60km of freeway driving every day. Not one day goes past where I wont see people overtake 10 cars up the left hand break down lane, or people that ride your tail, then drop 2 gears and fly around your left and just jam their way in front of you...

Or the people who take great pleasure at casually driving in the right hand lane right on the speed limit, forcing people to overtake on the left because they think it is their God given right to uphold the law and enforce it on everyone else.

I'm still waiting for the day I go to work and return home and not see an incident as described above.

Opening up the speed limits in these areas with these drivers will be a disaster if they can't even drive correctly now.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

True,

However is there anything that can show this stat as a % of cars that use the road?

It is a contradiction that the number of deaths have gone up.. you would think it would have gone down.

Wasn't it like 1 death in seven years when it had no speed limit?