How multicultural is Holden?

[Shonky]

Holden supporters like to claim that the commodore is the true Australian car... Just wondering, How many different countries are involved in the manufacture of any given example of the general's finest?

This should be interesting...

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

I think that the most "australian" cars are actually Mitsubishis, manufactured in Adelaide, although I could be wrong...

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by The MaDDeSTMaN

I think that the most "australian" cars are actually Mitsubishis, manufactured in Adelaide, although I could be wrong...

Yeah thanks blame us for that.

[SunDrifter]

I've argued this for years... Not that it will ever change any comodedoor owners opinion of his/her fine "Australian" car.

I was watching deal or no deal the other day (i know, i know) and a bloke that was on the show was craping on about wanting to buy a clubbedsport. When the host prompted him about the car on the show, he returned some response about not liking european cars!

What a dumbass! Never heard of Opel then?

<edit> I thought mitsus' were about on par for being Aussie made with the Falcons?

[Shonky]

The only true Australian vehicle is the mighty Oka.

Beasty MoFos... but bloody expensive!

[Heeno]

well really neither are ford, don't quote me on this but isn't henry ford an american or british or something like that?? im not sure if there is an all aussie car owned, foundered and manufactured by an aussie. hmmm could be wrong (most probably am) but it would be good to clear this up

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by Heeno

well really neither are ford, don't quote me on this but isn't henry ford an american or british or something like that?? im not sure if there is an all aussie car owned, foundered and manufactured by an aussie. hmmm could be wrong (most probably am) but it would be good to clear this up

Umm .. I'm not sure if that is a joke or not? Henry Ford (and Family) were Americans ..

Like GMH I'd assume any profit Ford Australia makes as a decent percentage of it shipped back to the good 'ole US-of-A. Holden was a body-maker (primarily for GM) many, many years ago which GM purchased outright and used the name to build an "Australian" car. Well .. actually pretty much hand-me-down American body, engine, drivetrain, etc. But Holden battled along with American-like bodies/mechanicals. Chrysler and Ford did a similar thing in the early sixties where they built cars that "looked" like American versions, but used fully American-designed engines. I would estimate that during these times Holden built the "Australian-car" tag which only stuck more during the Kingswood era of the Seventies ..

[MITCHAY]

Commodores and falcons are australia built cars. Lets see the Holden marque is unique to Australia and New Zealand. Ford is not. The alloytec engines i think are made here. It depends what you classify as truly Australian.

Does it mean all components are made and assembled here or does it mean that they are built here. I doubt the first is true for either.

Would anyone rather their cars to be more expensive just to have the Australian Made logo on it?

[The MaDDeSTMaN]

I think the point of this thread is how much of the Commodore is imported and simply assembled here, as opposed to made AND assembled here.

Originally Posted by Young 'un

Holden supporters like to claim that the commodore is the true Australian car... Just wondering, How many different countries are involved in the manufacture of any given example of the general's finest?

This should be interesting...

All I'm sure of is that none of the engines used in any Commodores are manufactured here, they're all imported from the US. I'm sure there are other bits and pieces that arrive in a shipping container rather then providing aussies with jobs, but I'm not sure what else...

[Steffo]

Commodore? Well.. lets see...

Body = Germany, Opel Omega, stretched and slightly re-styled by Holden

V8 = Chevrolet GenIII LS1 and Chevrolet GenIV LS2, imported

3.6 V6 = Made Here, designed in USA

Five-Speed Auto (5L40E) = Imported

Four-Speed Auto's (4L60E & 4L65E) = Imported

6-Speed Manuals (Aisin for SV6 and T56 for the rest) = Imported

5-Speed Manuals (Getrag, in the base utes and such) = Imported

Falcon is just a tad more Aussie...

Body = Designed and Made here

V8 = Imported block, and other bits and pieces, then assembled here

4.0 6cyl = Designed and Made here

Four-Speed Auto's (BTR M97LE) = made here

5-Speed Manual's (T5) = Not sure? Imported I think

6-Speed Manual's (T56) = Imported

I don't think there's been an entirely Aussie designed and made car since the Holden 48/215. And there probably never will be, always going to have foreign bits in them. Falcon is about as close as it gets.

[Perana]

Originally Posted by Steffo

I don't think there's been an entirely Aussie designed and made car since the Holden 48/215.

Even that wasnt a true aussie car....

[MRJUCY]

Originally Posted by Steffo

3.6 V6 = Made Here, designed in USA

I don't think there's been an entirely Aussie designed and made car since the Holden 48/215. And there probably never will be, always going to have foreign bits in them. Falcon is about as close as it gets.

Cast in Mexico assembled here

The FX wasn't designed here as often claimed it was a rejected design for the Chevy Nova. It was unique to Australia tho as even tho they designed it they didn't want it as they didn't feel it good enough. I think some of the later Holdens were designed here tho

I was reading the other day about Holden replacing Pilkington glass when the VE comes out. They sited the same reasons Ford did for leaving them lack of quality & too many strikes had meant unreliable service. Everytime the Pilkington mob striked (which is bloody often) it meant all 4 car companies had to lay down much of there staff as they couldn't assemble cars as well as many of there suppliers had to do the same thing costing alot of money, time & inconvenience to the companies & us the conumers. In the end Ford & Holden have had to do what was right for there people & unfortunately that means importing glass (Thailand it is beleived for Holden) which means I think the Pilkington guys will have done themselves out of a job soon as I don't see Mitsu & Toyota holding them up when they can import glass easier then anyone

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by MRJUCY

The FX wasn't designed here as often claimed it was a rejected design for the Chevy Nova.

The Chevy Nova was basically the "Sporty" version of the "Chevy II" compact (on which the Camaro was based). I think the Nova tag showed up in about 1966 .. and eventually I think they dropped the "Chevy II" tag and just called the laster cars Novas. So .. I doubt that a car manufactured in '48 was a rejected design of a car from '66? The 48-215 *was* basically an American GM design though. Americans didn't reject it, they just wouldn't left the Australian design their own car. An the 48-215 did basically what it was designed to do .. a cheap, light, robust, economical car.

Be thankful Holden with their American designed cars where here guys. I think Ford Australia would have been very happy to use English Fords as the basis of most of there models otherwise. Remember that Ford Australia were hedging bets with early Falcons and Zephers being sold side-by-side ... ;)

[Shonky]

Cheers Steffo... Thats what I was after.

I am not saying that Fords are more Australian than Holden, it's just that a lot of Holden fans, especially ones who don't actually know anything about cars regularly state that they support Holden because it's an Aussie car.

BTW. Okas are designed and built in Australia, using Aussie components where available and the company is 100% Australian owned. This probably explains the massive price tag.

[Cheahman]

heres some pics of the opel omega

[MITCHAY]

I reckon that looks like a nice car. Id have one.

[XD-Machine]

i got to say the kingswood is one of the nicest holden's built, it does give off a Aussie car kind of attitude

[The Dok]

: Ok my 2c worth:
Headlights/taillights/bodylights=Sth Korea since@1994
Interior trim (some) + doortrims=India

[JADED6]

Originally Posted by The Dok

: Ok my 2c worth:
Headlights/taillights/bodylights=Sth Korea since@1994
Interior trim (some) + doortrims=India

Hendersons / Aunde Trim made most of the Commodore & magna seats. Assembled with trim made in South Africa though.
Did have a VE prototype seat base as my computer chair. haha.

Most all interior plastics for the holden & some for the magna are made at Exacto plastics in Adelaide. For what a lot of it is, they have very high quality standards on what actually gets sent to holdens and i imagine holden send a lot of it back to.

[MethodX]

So one multinational American company is more Australian than another multinational American company because it sells basically an updated XK Falcon.
Wheres the other company utilises resources from its parent.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by MethodX

So one multinational American company is more Australian than another multinational American company because it sells basically an updated XK Falcon.
Wheres the other company utilises resources from its parent.

Such an uninformed post I have not seen in a while. Updated XK Falcon? Stop living in 1962. We don't drive XL Falcons around buddy.

:

[aquahead2001]

Originally Posted by MethodX

So one multinational American company is more Australian than another multinational American company because it sells basically an updated XK Falcon.
Wheres the other company utilises resources from its parent.

It's true that the BA can trace it's roots back to the US Falcon (XK) but seeing the US dropped Falcon in the late 1960's and Ford Australia with it's meagre resources (compared to its parent) has continued development of the old chassis and drive line it could be said that Falcon is now Australian. Considering all that remains of the original Falcon is the bore centres of the engine and maybe an area of the fire wall that hasn’t been redesigned, you could safely say that continuous improvement has made it a new car.

I bet there are many examples of throw backs in the automotive industry that we punters never hear about. It’s just our beloved ford has fessed up and told us of the Falcon’s history. Putting it another way, just because the wheel nut PCD hasn’t changed since XP/XR days (earlier if you count the compact Fairlanes) doesn’t mean all the wheels from the last 39 years are interchangeable!

The Bureau of Statistics did review on “Australian Content” in Motor Cars a while back; the Falcon was lay down misere winner with the others at least 5% behind. We all know about Holden’s new engine plant, but did you know that ION Automotive were contracted to actually provide the blocks from Melbourne and the heads from South Australia? When ION recently collapsed, Holden had no choice but to continue the supply of blocks and heads from Mexico, up until recently the hugely expensive machines to manufacture the blocks were in shipping containers in a bond store in Melbourne hoping someone would buy them from the administrators of ION.

[SB076]

Commodores and all there variants incl utes, crewmans etc are all manufacture in Adelaide as is the Mitsubishi Magna, Toyota Camrys, Ford Falcons and Territorys are manufactured in Vic. However as Steffo has pointed out a lot of the components are manufactured overseas and bought into the country. From what I have heard (don't know how accurate this is) but 70% of the VE Commodore will come from overseas. A lot of suppliers to the Automotive industry are looking at moving manufacturing offshore or they are losing contracts overseas ie Pilkington and Autoliv (manufacturer windrscreens, windows and Autoliv manufacture seat belts etc) There has been others I think Natra (radiators) but there has been a fair bit about it recently in the press.

[XD-Machine]

Originally Posted by SB076

Commodores and all there variants incl utes, crewmans etc are all manufacture in Adelaide as is the Mitsubishi Magna, Toyota Camrys, Ford Falcons and Territorys are manufactured in Vic. However as Steffo has pointed out a lot of the components are manufactured overseas and bought into the country. From what I have heard (don't know how accurate this is) but 70% of the VE Commodore will come from overseas. A lot of suppliers to the Automotive industry are looking at moving manufacturing offshore or they are losing contracts overseas ie Pilkington and Autoliv (manufacturer windrscreens, windows and Autoliv manufacture seat belts etc) There has been others I think Natra (radiators) but there has been a fair bit about it recently in the press.

i am sick of it. dam asian counties paying ppl like 2 dollars a day to work. how can any aussie company keep up with that. i would personaly pay more if every think cost more cause it would just be normal then. business say if you want it cheap we must go overseas but thats stupid cause we are just ruining ourselfs because we are influecing more and more slave labour companies to start up. one day there labour is going to go up and everythink will cost heaps why not just start now and give ppl jobs.

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by XD-Machine

i am sick of it. dam asian counties paying ppl like 2 dollars a day to work. how can any aussie company keep up with that. i would personaly pay more if every think cost more cause it would just be normal then. business say if you want it cheap we must go overseas but thats stupid cause we are just ruining ourselfs because we are influecing more and more slave labour companies to start up. one day there labour is going to go up and everythink will cost heaps why not just start now and give ppl jobs.

And which Aussie company would that be. Would that be the US Owned Ford? The Japenese owned Toyota? The US Owned Holden perhaps? After all they mean a great deal to Australia. The car industry is multinational, so is the parts supply that runs it. We export Holdens to the Middle East. Maybe they should stop buying our cars because we are nothing more then cheap filthy foreigners?

[RED_EL_XR8]

There were several plans to build the all Aussie car the "Austral Apathetic", but no-one ever got around to it.

It was to feature a winny-blue dispenser, 7.1 sound hard wired to only play John Williamson tunes, a corrugated iron finish, and it would not even start until the driver's BAC had reached double figures.

[Kapn_Kiwi]

Originally Posted by RED_EL_XR8

There were several plans to build the all Aussie car the "Austral Apathetic", but no-one ever got around to it.

It was to feature a winny-blue dispenser, 7.1 sound hard wired to only play John Williamson tunes, a corrugated iron finish, and it would not even start until the driver's BAC had reached double figures.

Kinda like... this?

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Maybe they should stop buying our cars because we are nothing more then cheap filthy foreigners?

Hey! I had a shower today, and I'm definitly not cheap!

[SB076]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

And which Aussie company would that be. Would that be the US Owned Ford? The Japenese owned Toyota? The US Owned Holden perhaps? After all they mean a great deal to Australia. The car industry is multinational, so is the parts supply that runs it. We export Holdens to the Middle East. Maybe they should stop buying our cars because we are nothing more then cheap filthy foreigners?

I think he was refering to the suppliers of the Automotive companies (local owned and operated buisness) Problem is that local companies cannot compete with overseas companies due to our work practices (ie safeguarding workers, enviromental concerns etc) and labour costs - last I heard a good wage in China was $5 US a day, labour here cost probably about $150 US a day (taking into account various taxes, and super) There are a lot of Australian jobs involved with Automotive (When Mitsubishi looked like closing - there where an estimated 20,000 jobs expected to be effected) If all four car companies where to move there manufacturing overseas there would be a lot of jobs that would go with them, which would have an significant effect on the economy.

[MO]

The Whippet...bring back the Whippet damn it,it really was an Oz car.