Australian Family Cars: We have gone so far backwards since 2016...

[ToryMikey]

I was just having a think about how far backwards the standard Australian family car has fallen since 2016.



1. Reasonable cost. The FGX Falcon cost $36,400 when new in 2016. The XR6 Sprint only cost $55k which is insane by current standards! A Recirculux auto costs $60k in SR5 diesel trim, that's not even counting crazy high prices for Rogue etc, and surely you can't consider the weedy 2.8 in the Hoylux a competitor for the turbo Barra.


2. Good power and torque outputs. A standard Barra 195, naturally aspirated, all stock in taxi spec, made 195 kW and 391 Nm of torque spread out all over the rev range. A base spec Recirculux only makes 110kW and 245 Nm! Yes, the 2.8 diesel makes some torque but you still have to put your foot down for it, compared to the relaxed driving style of the Falcon.


3. Fuel economy. Combined fuel consumption for the most popular Thailand Tractor is 10.9 L/100km! That's more than a Barra FG/FGX...heck it's even more than my XH Longreach gets! Yes, Recirculux has a claimed 7.8L/100km for the Diesel, but that fuel is 20% more expensive, and you're flogging the motor more to actually get anywhere due to the extra heft lugging around a useless 4x4 system.


4. Braking (and active safety in general). Drum brakes? Come on! Ford stopped offering that in the Falcon sedan in 1986. How "safe" can a car be if it takes ten more metres to come to a stop in an emergency?


5. Rear Suspension. The Falcon sedan had a Watts link in 1982...and all big sellers are making do with leaf spring or torsion beam rears.


6. Steering. Monocoque, double wishbone front suspension and rack and pinion steering has given way to ladder frames and archaic suspension and steering layouts.


7. Interior comfort and convenience. Try not to cut your fingers on the interior plastics of a Hilux or Ranger. Not to mention the lack of rear seat room.



Anything else that I'm forgetting here? Why the heck do we as consumers put up with this third world crap...and pay top dollar for it?

[Sprintey]

Sub 40K for the size and capability of a Territory, sub 45K for full time AWD and all these strengths. We have lost so much.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Anything else that I'm forgetting here? Why the heck do we as consumers put up with this third world crap...and pay top dollar for it?

Tax benefits and people think those cars make them more manly

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by kypez

Tax benefits and people think those cars make them more manly

As my uncle says, they are "extension cars". Totally useless for carrying a family and totally useless for doing real work.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

As my uncle says, they are "extension cars". Totally useless for carrying a family and totally useless for doing real work.

Yep. You also should mention that we were sub 7 seconds for 0-100 in the Falcon days and now people are excited by cars that do 9+ seconds (some in the 10's or 11's!!).

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by kypez

Yep. You also should mention that we were sub 7 seconds for 0-100 in the Falcon days and now people are excited by cars that do 9+ seconds (some in the 10's or 11's!!).

Yeah but they can tow a caravan and a Falcon can’t! 😂😂😂😂😂😂

Oh by the way Marge, I was being sarcastic…

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by kypez

Tax benefits and people think those cars make them more manly

Funny you say that, because that could also apply to a bright red V8 Mustang.

At least a Mustang does what is says on the tin, as in being a performance car with drop-dead styling. A dual cab pickup is virtually useless as a "commercial vehicle" unless it's towing a trailer to house all the stuff that won't fit in the tray.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Funny you say that, because that could also apply to a bright red V8 Mustang.

At least a Mustang does what is says on the tin, as in being a performance car with drop-dead styling. A dual cab pickup is virtually useless as a "commercial vehicle" unless it's towing a trailer to house all the stuff that won't fit in the tray.

Maybe I should make a separate thread about how commercial vehicles have gone backwards from when my 1996 XH was made to now.

148kW and 348Nm vs 110kW and 245Nm, my dinosaur uses less fuel, goes harder, steers better, stops better and actually carries loads! The only thing the Hoylux does better is that it has aircon...

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Maybe I should make a separate thread about how commercial vehicles have gone backwards from when my 1996 XH was made to now.

148kW and 348Nm vs 110kW and 245Nm, my dinosaur uses less fuel, goes harder, steers better, stops better and actually carries loads! The only thing the Hoylux does better is that it has aircon...

I don't know what figures your comparing there ?

My Fairmont v8 5.0l made 175kw and 395nm (stock) in 2001 .....not a lot

We bought a new Navara 2.7l diesel in 1997 64kw and a whole 180nm at 2200rpm .....it was like winding up a rubber band

Most Thailand specials make between 430 - 500nm torque out of as small as a 2l ,that's not bad .....sure they're a bit fragile what do you expect when your towing 3.5 tonnes , would have been fun in the 64kw Navara

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by PooDog

I don't know what figures your comparing there ?

My Fairmont v8 5.0l made 175kw and 395nm (stock) in 2001 .....not a lot

We bought a new Navara 2.7l diesel in 1997 64kw and a whole 180nm at 2200rpm .....it was like winding up a rubber band

Most Thailand specials make between 430 - 500nm torque out of as small as a 2l ,that's not bad .....sure they're a bit fragile what do you expect when your towing 3.5 tonnes , would have been fun in the 64kw Navara

I’m comparing my 1996 dinosaur XH to a new Hoylux, base model to base model.

Sure I could compare the XR8 to the SR5 or whatever, but even then the fully sik Hoylux would be embarrassed in comfort, reliability, acceleration, handling and good looks.

When I was a one eyed Ford teen I used to bag VNs, laugh at how limp wristed 3800s were compared to Falcon sixes, but even now the VG ute with a base 3800 has more enthusiast appeal than any Siamese ****box on the market. It had rear discs and rack and pinion steering too!

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Maybe I should make a separate thread about how commercial vehicles have gone backwards from when my 1996 XH was made to now.

148kW and 348Nm vs 110kW and 245Nm, my dinosaur uses less fuel, goes harder, steers better, stops better and actually carries loads! The only thing the Hoylux does better is that it has aircon...

2.4 Diesel Hilux has 400mn, 2.8 has 500 with auto fitted

Our Korean SUV has 416nm, not bad for a 2L Diesel.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Anything else that I'm forgetting here? Why the heck do we as consumers put up with this third world crap...and pay top dollar for it?

I'd say because without a manufacturing industry, Australia is headed for the 3rd world.

We are definitely paying more for less now the local industry is gone.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

I'd say because without a manufacturing industry, Australia is headed for the 3rd world.

We are definitely paying more for less now the local industry is gone.

Greekonomics,

Or at least 'Bankers Dozen' - pay for 12, get 11.

[janddbone]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Greekonomics,

Or at least 'Bankers Dozen' - pay for 12, get 11.

I am sorry to hear of your death my mate.

[Sprintey]

https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/hol...calais-review/

Pretty good for $39,990 and 9L/100km, that interior, tech, refinement and even the self parking gimic.


Today, you get the base spec 2wd Corolla SUV for about the same money...

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-6330872/?Cr=0

... but there's a catch: these have been new cars to order, you get it in an approximate to undetermined timeframe, events have shown it may go up in price.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

https://www.drive.com.au/reviews/hol...calais-review/

Pretty good for $39,990 and 9L/100km, that interior, tech, refinement and even the self parking gimic.


Today, you get the base spec 2wd Corolla SUV for about the same money...

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...-6330872/?Cr=0

... but there's a catch: these have been new cars to order, you get it in an approximate to undetermined timeframe, events have shown it may go up in price.

Yikes I forget how dreary base Toyota interiors can be. $40k for that penalty box, and only 200 Nm of torque to lug it around! The base Falcon had velour at least, since 2002!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by janddbone

I am sorry to hear of your death my mate.

I died in 2017 when they stopped making the VF Commodore, at least automotive wise

Cars are bull**** these days, everything costs an arm and a leg and is **** to drive.

Originally Posted by kypez

Oh and the Turbo diesel injectors are an eye watering $3000 vs a few hundred for the Falcon. Then you have particulate filters, EGR and AdBlue that all have questionable lifespans.

Modern diesel is junk, diesel died when Euro V came around.

We've got two VFII Evoke's at work, the Shartwagon with the 3L ****box V6

Works suprisingly well as a work vehicle, can fit a lot of stuff with the rear seats folded down, got roof racks on them too, one has a set of rear drawers.

Comfortable, OK to drive, **** stereo and head unit though.

One has 262,000km on the clock and has had the *** flogged out of it its whole life and it drives better than the one with 114,000km on the clock.

If the VFII Sportwagon had the Barra and a better stereo it would be the perfect car I reckon.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Modern diesel is junk, diesel died when Euro V came around.

Real diesels died when they stopped fitting them with liners and using mechanical injection pumps.
Modern DPF, regen stuff, I think of as holding in a fart all day long, until you really need to stop and let the biggest one rip.

[GT1533]

Originally Posted by ToryMikey

Anything else that I'm forgetting here?

8. Cabin Quietness. Used to be a key attribute of cars. Now we have chug-chug engines that are like operating an old Massey Fergusson. You can try turning up the radio volume, until you try accelerating, then it will be drowned out again (and that’s about all that happens!).

.

[ToryMikey]

Originally Posted by GT1533

8. Cabin Quietness. Used to be a key attribute of cars. Now we have chug-chug engines that are like operating an old Massey Fergusson. You can try turning up the radio volume, until you try accelerating, then it will be drowned out again (and that’s about all that happens!).

.

Oh yep. Less sound deadening and attention paid to NVH, engines are louder, and you need to thrash them to go above walking pace. Maybe Thailand doesn’t have wide open roads but they are useless for country driving here!

[Jastel]

Dont blame me I've bought around 50 in 30 years....
I'm the last Falcon Taxi standing here....but have no choice but to switch to the dark side soon.

[randel]

Originally Posted by Jastel

Dont blame me I've bought around 50 in 30 years....
I'm the last Falcon Taxi standing here....but have no choice but to switch to the dark side soon.

Dont do it man!!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Jastel

Dont blame me I've bought around 50 in 30 years....
I'm the last Falcon Taxi standing here....but have no choice but to switch to the dark side soon.

Go Tesla Model 3 taxi

[Jastel]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Go Tesla Model 3 taxi

You wanna triple the fare and I'll consider it....
This aint Uber...we gotta make money.
$150000 for two cars to cart drunks around in...NAH!!!

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Jastel

You wanna triple the fare and I'll consider it....
This aint Uber...we gotta make money.
$150000 for two cars to cart drunks around in...NAH!!!

What’s on the menu?
What’s the highest number of kms you've had out of a Falcon?

Another point to ad to OPs list, handling, road holding and ride quality.
Simply no other car in the price range that could compete and that likely still stands today.
I’d often fly out of Auckland airport and get a one way rental from Wellington 600km away.
Had most of what Avis, Budget, Apex rentals etc offered (except premium) and raped them all on the back roads. The SV6 and XR6 were in their element of covering long distances at speed. Throw them into corners at nearly twice the advisory speed and they soak up any road undulations with no drama.
To contrast all the trash that has replaced them from the other makers Toyota, Kia, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mazda are so awful at any form of spirited driving that I’d only take them on the back roads once to see how bad they actually are. Most are like lipstick on a pig, relying on larger wider wheels to mask their **** suspension set up.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by smoo

What’s on the menu?
What’s the highest number of kms you've had out of a Falcon?

Another point to ad to OPs list, handling, road holding and ride quality.
Simply no other car in the price range that could compete and that likely still stands today.
I’d often fly out of Auckland airport and get a one way rental from Wellington 600km away.
Had most of what Avis, Budget, Apex rentals etc offered (except premium) and raped them all on the back roads. The SV6 and XR6 were in their element of covering long distances at speed. Throw them into corners at nearly twice the advisory speed and they soak up any road undulations with no drama.
To contrast all the trash that has replaced them from the other makers Toyota, Kia, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Mazda are so awful at any form of spirited driving that I’d only take them on the back roads once to see how bad they actually are. Most are like lipstick on a pig, relying on larger wider wheels to mask their **** suspension set up.


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How is your NZ license these days Smoo?

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Go Tesla Model 3 taxi

horrible taxi, they have the worst ride quality in the back seat, your spine gets punched through the top of your head

[kypez]

Oh and the Turbo diesel injectors are an eye watering $3000 vs a few hundred for the Falcon. Then you have particulate filters, EGR and AdBlue that all have questionable lifespans.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by kypez

Oh and the Turbo diesel injectors are an eye watering $3000 vs a few hundred for the Falcon. Then you have particulate filters, EGR and AdBlue that all have questionable lifespans.

Nah not $3k, even the ones on the 300 series aren't near that much.

Cat and dpf on the other hand is $4.5k, each side.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Nah not $3k, even the ones on the 300 series aren't near that much.



Cat and dpf on the other hand is $4.5k, each side.

Was quoted near that for my Everest a couple of years ago. Sold it before I had to get it done.