Holden's LPG range released including Caprice, SV6 and Sportwagon

Brazen · 09-02-2012, 05:04 PM

Looks no way near technically good as the EcoLPI, my ute would thrash these Holdens. But the no loss of bootspace with full sized spare is perhaps more important for some buyers??

LPG Caprice should be a win with limos and cabs (or as a 'green' ministerial vehicle?) . And expect to see a million fleet LPG Sportwagons.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25799F0014F564

Quote:

Pricing revealed for more extensive new Commodore LPG range as Cruze prices rise
9 February 2012
By MARTON PETTENDY
HOLDEN has revealed prices for its new and expanded dedicated-LPG Commodore sedan range, along with price increases for its smaller Australian-made stablemate, the Cruze.

Twelve new sedan and ute models will be available when the upgraded single-fuel Commodore LPG range is officially launched on February 21 - including Sportwagon, Caprice, Equip and SV6 versions for the first time - each with a six-speed automatic transmission instead of the outgoing dual-fuel LPG Commodore’s archaic four-speed auto.

Prices start at $37,990 plus on-road costs for the 2012 VE Commodore Series II Omega Ute, making Holden’s new dedicated LPG ute $900 cheaper than before at base level, but still more expensive than Ford’s new dedicated-LPG MkII Falcon EcoLPI ute (from $31,090 cab-chassis, or $31,490 with styleside tray).

New to the Commodore-based Ute range is the SV6 LPG model, priced at $41,990 plus ORCs, which will be a direct rival for the Falcon XR6 EcoLPI (from $37,890 cab-chassis, or $38,190 styleside).

A new Equipe variant will open the revised Commodore LPG sedan line-up at $40,490 - $1900 less than Holden’s previous Commodore LPG sedan price-leader but still $755 more than Ford’s equivalent MkII Falcon XT EcoLPI sedan ($39,735 plus ORCs).

Left: Holden Omega Ute and Berlina sedan. Below: Holden Cruze sedan.

The 2012 Commodore Omega LPG sedan will cost $2000 more at $42,990 plus ORCs ($600 less than before), while the upgraded Berlina LPG sedan is priced from $45,990 (up $100) and the new SV6 LPG sedan is $46,290 plus ORCs - $3300 more than the XR6 EcoLPI sedan (from $42,990).

The all-new Commodore Sportwagon LPG range, which has no direct competitor in the absence of an LPG-fuelled Territory, will open $2000 higher than the sedan from $42,490 for the new Equipe LPG.

Mirroring the Commodore LPG sedan range, the Holden’s LPG wagon range also includes the Sportwagon Omega LPG (from $44,490), the Sportwagon Berlina LPG (from $47,990) and the Sportwagon SV6 LPG (from $48,290).

Topping Holden’s fresh LPG range is the new long-wheelbase Caprice LPG sedan, priced from $64,990 - $2500 more than the entry-level 3.6-litre Caprice V6 (from $61,990).

Technical details are yet to be revealed, but GoAuto understands Holden’s new dedicated LPG range will be powered exclusively by a 3.6-litre V6 that produces 178kW at 6000rpm, which is up from the previous dual-fuel LPG V6’s 175kW.

However, its peak power output falls short of the entry-level Commodore’s 3.0-litre direct-injection SIDI petrol V6, which offers 190kW at 6650rpm along with 290Nm of torque (the old LPG engine already bettered it at 318Nm), not to mention the 3.6-litre SIDI V6’s 210kW/350Nm outputs.

The performance of Commodore’s new dedicated LPG system, which retains gaseous multi-point injection technology, is also eclipsed by the Falcon’s more advanced liquid injection LPG system, which was developed by Orbital and is also employed by HSV’s V8 range.

In Ford’s case it delivers more performance than the Falcon’s 4.0-litre inline petrol six, at 198kW and 409Nm.

Official certification figures also reveal the new LPG Commodore models will retain the same 2100kg braked towing capacity as 3.6-litre petrol models – up from 1200kg for 3.0-litre petrol models – while all Commodores can tow 750kg unbraked.

Tare weights for Holden’s new Eco-branded dedicated LPG system - which will dispense with the conventional space-sapping boot-mounted gas tank – will start at 1710kg for the base Omega sedan, 83kg more than the petrol Omega sedan.

The single-fuel LPG system, which will incorporate an under-floor gas cylinder, not only paving the way for a return to LPG in the Sportwagon but potentially gives sedan and ute models a cargo advantage over the EcoLPi Falcon and aftermarket systems

We understand LPG Commodores will lose no boot space, unlike Falcon EcoLPi sedans, which have a shallower boot than petrol models but also lose the full-size spare wheel as standard equipment.

Meantime, Holden has revealed price increases of between $250 and $1300 for its smaller Cruze sedan and hatch range, following the release of its more expensive new Barina sedan range earlier this month.

As we’ve reported, the new Barina sedan is now available from $16,490 - $200 more than before and $500 more than the new TM-series Barina hatch (which itself increased by $1200 at base level) upon which is based.

Effective from February, the entry-level Cruze 1.8 CD sedan and hatch now cost $21,490 plus ORCs – up $250 or 1.2 per cent from their former base price of $21,240.

The Cruze 1.8 CD auto is now $23,790 plus ORCs (up $550 or 2.4 per cent), with 1.4-litre turbo CD models undergoing similar price hikes to $22,740 and $25,050 respectively.

The Cruze 1.8 CDX manual has been discontinued, while the auto rises $300 to $27,040.and 1.4T SRi models hike by $1000 or four per cent ($25,990 manual) and $1300 or 4.8 per cent ($28,290 auto), with SRi-V models up by the same amounts to a respective $29,490 and $31,790.

Diesel-powered Cruze models have undergone the same price increase and now start at $25,490 for the 2.0 CD manual, increasing to $27,790 (CD auto) and $31,040 (CDX auto), with the diesel CDX manual also discontinued.

Joe5619 · 09-02-2012, 05:14 PM

How did they get around the boot thing?

Also, price increases for local Cruze!!! For all those thinking local small car is the next best thing to slice bread.. With the dollar where it is, imported car pricing would have downward pressure & here we have the local Cruze going up, by as much as 1,300!! That is going to be hard work against cheaper imports..

Brazen · 09-02-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

How did they get around the boot thing?

It looks like thery were able to put the LPG tank in where the petrol fuel tank lives rather than where the spare tyre is, as in the Falcon, but no details have been shown yet.

Bossxr8 · 09-02-2012, 06:57 PM

Look how much more expensive it is than Falcon EcoLPi, and its not even half as good a system, running on the old spec non DI 3.6.

179 kw lol. Makes less power than a Falcon 6 did 10 years ago.

No suprise Cruze has gone up in price, its the 3rd time it has happened since it was made here. It went up a few hundred when it was released, then went up again about 6 months later, and its now gone up again.

It was all smoke and mirrors about it costing about the same as the Korean made versions, now they are putting it up to roughly how much it really costs. They just kept the price down initially to make it look like it was going to cost the same as the Korean versions. Everyone knew that was BS, there's no way the real cost of an aussie made Cruze is even close to what it would be in Korea, cheaper labour, operating costs and economies of scale etc.

Dangerous thing to do in such a cost sensitive segment like small cars. This will cost them sales, cause less people will be willing to pay the same price for a Cruze as a superior vehicle like a Focus, 3, Lancer etc.

PoweredByCNG · 09-02-2012, 07:29 PM

This is a joke, surely.

How hard would it have been for GM Holden to use the old variable inlet/exhaust version of the V6 that produced 195kW / 340Nm in petrol form as a base for the dedicated LPG engine? That would make the engine more competitive with Ford's offerings.

Having said that, no GM HFV6 engine can match Ford's I6, even if Ford's engine lacks direct petrol injection.

This is a perfect opportunity for Ford to push their superiority, both in terms of price and technology. Now let's watch Ford's advertising department make the EcoLPi fail.

The G6ET Spot · 11-02-2012, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

This is a perfect opportunity for Ford to push their superiority, both in terms of price and technology. Now let's watch Ford's advertising department make the EcoLPi fail.

Exactly. they will just sit on their hands and do nothing like they always do.

And then question as to why they are not selling cars.

GT69 · 11-02-2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The G6ET Spot

Exactly. they will just sit on their hands and do nothing like they always do.

And then question as to why they are not selling cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxWJPfvMsSs

here you go.....

mik · 10-02-2012, 02:05 AM

delete.....

2011G6E · 10-02-2012, 02:13 AM

Unless you live outside the capital cities, you have no idea how big a thing it is for a car not to have a proper spare tyre.

Hell, out here, the first thing people demand in a new car isn't power, isn't 0-100 times, it's a full sized matching spare, as you can easily be 200km+ from the nearest place that even looks like being able to source a tyre for you. In fact both the Ford and Holden dealers in Rocky said they just automatically fit full sized matching spares to any car they order in at no extra cost, as they know the score and where a lot of thier buyers come from.

A bit less power? Who really cares when you can only do 100 or 110 before Plod puts his foot down on you with the camera-infested highway. Full sized spare and no loss of boot space? That will be a big drawcard...as I said, outside the capital cities...

PoweredByCNG · 10-02-2012, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

A bit less power? Who really cares when you can only do 100 or 110 before Plod puts his foot down on you with the camera-infested highway...

It's about the every day experience. To get any meaningful acceleration out of the base version of the HFV6, especially in port injected form, you have to mash the throttle - something you don't have to do with the Ford I6 because of the mountain of torque down low. The V6 lacks torque in the midrange, and lacks it even more where you need it - down low.

PoweredByCNG · 10-02-2012, 02:29 AM

Guys, get this. Holden don't even supply a spare wheel with their PETROL Commodores as standard anymore. With the LPG version, they can now claim that there is 'no bootspace compromise' because the spare wheel isn't present normally anyway. FAIL!

johnydep · 10-02-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

It's about the every day experience. To get any meaningful acceleration out of the base version of the HFV6, especially in port injected form, you have to mash the throttle - something you don't have to do with the Ford I6 because of the mountain of torque down low. The V6 lacks torque in the midrange, and lacks it even more where you need it - down low.

I love the I6 engine, it was one of the reasons I purchased the Territory. I hope Ford can their plans to stop production of the I6, and go for a V6.

Joe5619 · 10-02-2012, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Unless you live outside the capital cities, you have no idea how big a thing it is for a car not to have a proper spare tyre.

Hell, out here, the first thing people demand in a new car isn't power, isn't 0-100 times, it's a full sized matching spare, as you can easily be 200km+ from the nearest place that even looks like being able to source a tyre for you. In fact both the Ford and Holden dealers in Rocky said they just automatically fit full sized matching spares to any car they order in at no extra cost, as they know the score and where a lot of thier buyers come from.

A bit less power? Who really cares when you can only do 100 or 110 before Plod puts his foot down on you with the camera-infested highway. Full sized spare and no loss of boot space? That will be a big drawcard...as I said, outside the capital cities...

But I dont think this car is really targeted to non captial cities buyers??

johnydep · 10-02-2012, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

But I dont think this car is really targeted to non captial cities buyers??

Come on! You're not serious, are you?

Ford and Holden have always targeted City and Country sales; their cars are built for "Australian" conditions, they have a testing ground that simulates city and country conditions.

johnydep · 10-02-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

No suprise Cruze has gone up in price, its the 3rd time it has happened since it was made here. It went up a few hundred when it was released, then went up again about 6 months later, and its now gone up again.

The Focus went up in price as soon as Wheels announced it was in the final selection of COTY. Went up a few thousand in January while we were looking.

dimka100 · 10-02-2012, 12:20 PM

Hmm how do we know this information is legit? No other car news sites came up with any of that info … the 21st is supposed to be the date when Holden announces their LPG products to the media.

Nut I love all the Holden haters on this forum … it just shows the narrow minded thinking of some members … what people fail to understand is that bad LPG Holden product means more bad LPG reputation in the market place, this will do no favours to the Falcon product as people simply write off LPG in their mindset no matter how good the kw or whatever numbers look like.

As a matter of fact, Ford needs more makes to release good LPG products in the market place, and drive up the general LPG reputation and market awareness … without that the LPG Falcon is doomed no matter how good of a product it is … and the current sales numbers clearly demonstrate that!

Grobbo · 10-02-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

Hmm how do we know this information is legit? No other car news sites came up with any of that info … the 21st is supposed to be the date when Holden announces their LPG products to the media.

Nut I love all the Holden haters on this forum … it just shows the narrow minded thinking of some members … what people fail to understand is that bad LPG Holden product means more bad LPG reputation in the market place, this will do no favours to the Falcon product as people simply write off LPG in their mindset no matter how good the kw or whatever numbers look like.

As a matter of fact, Ford needs more makes to release good LPG products in the market place, and drive up the general LPG reputation and market awareness … without that the LPG Falcon is doomed no matter how good of a product it is … and the current sales numbers clearly demonstrate that!

Mmmm nah I don't reckon you neccesarily need other good products, you can be the only good one. There are plenty of examples of this the world over. However, in all these cases, the leading product has been skillfully and extensively MARKETED.

It wouldn't be hard to market the LPI along the lines of 'Finally an LPG car that's better than petrol' or whatever... But no, not a peep from Ford's marketing dept about EcoLPI. Not a peep! Bizaare.

johnydep · 10-02-2012, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grobbo

It wouldn't be hard to market the LPI along the lines of 'Finally an LPG car that's better than petrol' or whatever... But no, not a peep from Ford's marketing dept about EcoLPI. Not a peep! Bizaare.

That would be false advertising.

LPG is great but, as with anything, there are pros and cons that have to be weighed up.

With large markets, such as the US and Europe, spending only a very small percentage of their dollars on LPG, it will always be the poor (but useful) cousin to Diesel and petrol.

I think Ford are on a winner with their Diesel engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by An Action Plan for Cars

Natural gas and Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG) have been available to car owners since the 1930s, but the impact of these fuels has to date been limited. Natural gas releases somewhat fewer GHG emissions than petroleum combustion for the same amount of energy. However, this advantage can be offset by leakage of just a few percent in the fuel infrastructure or in the vehicle itself, because methane is a much more potent GHG than CO2. Today, U.S. light‐duty vehicles obtain about one‐quarter of one percent of their energy needs from LPG, and essentially none from natural gas (Davis, Diegel, & Boundy, 2009). Although natural gas and LPG offer the potential to diversify energy supply, any energy security benefits will depend on the origins and relative price volatility of each fuel. In addition to leakage and potential security concerns, there are several other barriers to large‐scale adoption, including reduced trunk space due to fuel tank volume, longer refueling time, reduced range between refueling, limited numbers of refueling stations, and restrictions (e.g. in tunnels) for hazardous materials transport. Recent discoveries of significant natural gas in shale deposits in the U.S. suggest it could in the mid‐term be a relatively low cost source of energy, but the inconvenience of using gaseous fuels in transportation as opposed to other sectors remains a major disadvantage.

http://web.mit.edu/sloan-auto-lab/re...ion_8Feb10.pdf

**Luke Plaizier** · 10-02-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimka100

what people fail to understand is that bad LPG Holden product means more bad LPG reputation in the market place, this will do no favours to the Falcon product as people simply write off LPG in their mindset no matter how good the kw or whatever numbers look like.

GOLD!

Holden will make the LPG Commodore so crap that it will affect EcoLPI sales.

I like the cut of your jib brother!

Lukeyson

Brazen · 10-02-2012, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

GOLD!

Holden will make the LPG Commodore so crap that it will affect EcoLPI sales.

I like the cut of your jib brother!

Lukeyson

He has a point, the major problems with LPG are reputational. The better the LPG products there are on the market the better it is for everyone selling LPG products. Like what happened to diesel.

1TUFFUTE · 10-02-2012, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

The Focus went up in price as soon as Wheels announced it was in the final selection of COTY. Went up a few thousand in January while we were looking.

THATS WIERD THE LAST I HEARD ITS BEEN 19K FOR MONTHS NOW

johnydep · 11-02-2012, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

THATS WIERD THE LAST I HEARD ITS BEEN 19K FOR MONTHS NOW

Sorry, I was looking at the higher spec models only.

Bossxr8 · 11-02-2012, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnydep

Sorry, I was looking at the higher spec models only.

Didn't they just put the price up a few hundred dollars yet made satnav standard fitment on the high spec models?

Good trade off I think.

**Luke Plaizier** · 09-02-2012, 07:46 PM

Given it costs more, and has much less power, I'm betting the Drives and Wheels of the world will be putting the emphasis on the boot size. Heck, give the Ecoboost LiLPI and it would put out more power than that!

I notice no consumption values listed yet either. Sequential Vapour Injection might be more efficient than you're old Gas-Ring converters, but I can't see how it would be able to match Liquid Phase Injection. So costs more, less power, and uses more fuel. Bizarre position to put yourself in isn't it. Market your way out of that one!

"But hey, look at the boot!"

Lukeyson

PoweredByCNG · 09-02-2012, 07:57 PM

But hey, it's a Holden. Bogans will buy it no matter how good the competition is!

TMC · 09-02-2012, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PoweredByCNG

But hey, it's a Holden. Bogans will buy it no matter how good the competition is!

Yeah. If Holden do it, it's "amazing" "best thing since the wheel"

If Ford do it, it's a "lump of crap" despite the technical advances.

phillyc · 09-02-2012, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Given it costs more, and has much less power, I'm betting the Drives and Wheels of the world will be putting the emphasis on the boot size. Heck, give the Ecoboost LiLPI and it would put out more power than that!

I notice no consumption values listed yet either. Sequential Vapour Injection might be more efficient than you're old Gas-Ring converters, but I can't see how it would be able to match Liquid Phase Injection. So costs more, less power, and uses more fuel. Bizarre position to put yourself in isn't it. Market your way out of that one!

"But hey, look at the boot!"

Lukeyson

GM Holden LPG when compared to Ford Falcon EcoLPi technology will have
* less power,
* less torque,
* higher asking price (between $755 and $6900!) damn thats alot of LPG
* higher fuel consumption. (no way to recoup the higher purchase price)
* about 20-30L of extra boot space.

So, bootspace will be exactly what drivel and carsguide etc will focus on!

1TUFFUTE · 10-02-2012, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

GM Holden LPG when compared to Ford Falcon EcoLPi technology will have
* less power,
* less torque,
* higher asking price (between $755 and $6900!) damn thats alot of LPG
* higher fuel consumption. (no way to recoup the higher purchase price)
* about 20-30L of extra boot space.

So, bootspace will be exactly what drivel and carsguide etc will focus on!

well if they buy holden wagons cus of the space...over a mondeo..they dont stand a chance.
oh and the prices OMG...how can they be up to 7ooo$ more for a ancient tech car with no power...HUH. The way i see it all ford has to do is spam emails to every buisiness in aus saying well beat holdens prices for gas cars by 7g bwhahaah

wow i really cant believe what im reading...wait i have to go...got a bunch of mates im dying to tell the good news too....

Brazen · 09-02-2012, 08:03 PM

But in a way doesnt packaging sell? I've never heard anyone praise the performance of the 4speed auto Forrester but it's a huge seller. And wouldn't people who buy a large car want to have cargo room? I don't know I think solving the packaging issue may be more important than it having 200kw. Even if it is crapper compared to the Ford.

TMC · 09-02-2012, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

But in a way doesnt packaging sell? I've never heard anyone praise the performance of the 4speed auto Forrester but it's a huge seller. And wouldn't people who buy a large car want to have cargo room? I don't know I think solving the packaging issue may be more important than it having 200kw.

Give me 200kW any day.