Are CVTs really that bad?

[zlcrazy]

Hi all

Looking two main new SUVs, the Mitsubishi Outlander and the Nissan X-Trail. They both have CVT autos. I am tempted to just stick with a manual transmission option but people including salesman say that no one wants them and neither should i. But anyway that brings me back to the CVTs, are they really that bad?

I love driving so would love to hear all angles on peoples thoughts etc. And any praise for the manual too would be good. So any advice positive or negative would be much appreciated...

[Trump]

Originally Posted by zlcrazy

Hi all

Looking two main new SUVs, the Mitsubishi Outlander and the Nissan X-Trail. They both have CVT autos. I am tempted to just stick with a manual transmission option but people including salesman say that no one wants them and neither should i. But anyway that brings me back to the CVTs, are they really that bad?

I love driving so would love to hear all angles on peoples thoughts etc. And any praise for the manual too would be good. So any advice positive or negative would be much appreciated...

They are fine to drive, it's when they go breasticles up (which they will) just after the warranty has expired where their main failing lies. There are no serviceable parts for the CVT in either unit and as such, it's a new CVT box (at some ridiculous price) time.

Go for a manual, we did with the X-Trail and it's one of the easiest little buses you could drive in manual form.

[DFB FGXR6]

I just posted this in your other thread before seeing this one -

"The thing with CVT's is that they are great for tootling around town, A to B driving ect, which is precisely what most vehicles fitted with a CVT are designed to do. For the average driver they do a pretty good job and most wouldn't know the difference to a torque converter auto anyway.

CVT's get a bad wrap with car enthusiast's because once the foot gets deeper into the throttle it all turns to mushiness. They lack the proper ability to use the full range of revs and feel unresponsive to enthusiastic driving, even with the programmed "gears" many now feature.

I personally prefer a traditional torque converter automatic to either a CVT or DCT but for general round town driving, a CVT has its merits."


The reason the dealer is telling you don't want a manual is because he doesn't have one in stock and wants you take the auto one burning a hole on the showroom floor.

[zlcrazy]

Originally Posted by Trump

They are fine to drive, it's when they go breasticles up (which they will) just after the warranty has expired where their main failing lies. There are no serviceable parts for the CVT in either unit and as such, it's a new CVT box (at some ridiculous price) time.

Go for a manual, we did with the X-Trail and it's one of the easiest little buses you could drive in manual form.

Thanks for your quick reply. I pretty much agree with all you've said. Did you purchase a current T32 X-Trail?

[Trump]

Originally Posted by zlcrazy

Thanks for your quick reply. I pretty much agree with all you've said. Did you purchase a current T32 X-Trail?

We bought a manwell diesel T32 last year brand new, the only failing is it could use more "rugged" tyres, the factory items aren't up to it when roughing it. Tyres aside, it's a brilliant little bus and has actual off-road capability as opposed to most AWD SUV's (has transfer case and selectable 4WD).

[zlcrazy]

Originally Posted by Trump

We bought a manwell diesel T32 last year brand new, the only failing is it could use more "rugged" tyres, the factory items aren't up to it when roughing it. Tyres aside, it's a brilliant little bus and has actual off-road capability as opposed to most AWD SUV's (has transfer case and selectable 4WD).

How do you find the diesel? Correct me if im wrong, isnt the diesel a Renault engine?

[zipping]

The wife insisted on a Mini. The CVT in that is terrible has a vibration in it when feathering the throttle to keep up with traffic, annoys me but doesn't bother her. Had it at Mini a number of times to fix and they claim its the way it is but do agree there is a vibration. After reading Trumps post now I know why they are playing hard ball on fixing it.

Get a manual imo if you value driving.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by zlcrazy

How do you find the diesel? Correct me if im wrong, isnt the diesel a Renault engine?

It's a ripper little unit. Way more torque than I was expecting and it's quite smooth for an oiler. Having just filled up (approx 59L went in) with 910km on the tripmeter from the previous tank of fuel, I'd say the fuel economy is nothing short of amazing.

[bernbo]

Had a hire car cvt outlander a few weeks ago. It never was in the right ratio when you needed it and was bloody awful to drive, terrible off the line and always tried to keep the revs low probably to save fuel. It was absolute delight to come home to our 10year old ford Territory awd with a conventional 6speed. It drove like a new car should not like the ourlander with 12thou on it. Apparently in the outlander the diesel gets the conventional torque converter auto but you maybe like me and hate diesels.

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[zlcrazy]

Originally Posted by bernbo

Had a hire car cvt outlander a few weeks ago. It never was in the right ratio when you needed it and was bloody awful to drive, terrible off the line and always tried to keep the revs low probably to save fuel. It was absolute delight to come home to our 10year old ford Territory awd with a conventional 6speed. It drove like a new car should not like the ourlander with 12thou on it. Apparently in the outlander the diesel gets the conventional torque converter auto but you maybe like me and hate diesels.

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Thanks for that. Real experience which is most helpful. Yeah im not a fan of diesels either really so rules that out. I drove a hire Outlander a few months back too and found it the same. Which is what made me really consider the manual. Although thats only a 5speed unit.

[Falcon SXR8]

I can not stand them and would rather crawl on my hands and knees to get from a to b, if you have any doubts at all get the manual. But my experiances are from a lancer so others might be better.

[zlcrazy]

Originally Posted by Falcon SXR8

I can not stand them and would rather crawl on my hands and knees to get from a to b, if you have any doubts at all get the manual. But my experiances are from a lancer so others might be better.

Pretty much how i see it too

[Chopped]

I've driven a few Lancers with CVT and I hated it. I personally would not buy one.

[XR Martin]

Toyota CVTs arnt bad, and I could live with one if I had to

The Mitsubishi and Nissan ones are still pretty awful.

[lra]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Toyota CVTs arnt bad, and I could live with one if I had to.

I hired a Corolla at Uluru, drove to Kings Canyon and back, averaged 4.7l/100, (but this is not really average world driving.)
After handing it back, I was very surprised to find it was a CVT, would never have picked it, I thought it was a 6 speed auto, very quiet and smooth..

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Toyota CVTs arnt bad, and I could live with one if I had to

The Mitsubishi and Nissan ones are still pretty awful.

I agree... My wife has a Mitsubishi ASX, and the CVT is noisy.
Its a weird sensation, as it feels like its always in one gear, and acceleration is poor. It feels like it is always in a gear lower than what it should be.

But then again after you've driven a Falcon with the fantastic ZF auto, every other auto trans feels sub par.

[minheim]

In terms of general functionality I have no problems with a CVT. The main draw back I find is probably the delay in getting quick sudden acceleration but with most CVT cars you have the option of using the sport shift option if you want a more spirited experience . As for reliability it depends on the manufacturer. My daughter has a 2009 lancer and it has 150K on the odo and the transmission hasn't missed a beat since new and it still drives the same as when she bought it. We also have a mid 2014 lancer GSR and it is on 45K and is fine. You never hear anyone question the reliability of a CJ lancer. I'd rather a CVT than a DCT any day is is why the lancer was purchased over the Focus or golf in 2014.

[frankie86]

We have a old 09 mitsubishi colt at work with a cvt auto in it believe it or not that car has 340,000 kays on it and the box is still going, always has fluid changes every 80k since new, would i own one? Heck no noisy as and as far as driving experience goes that gearbox just ruins it, I'd go a manual

[ebv8]

is it solely and A-B car or do you enjoy being behind the wheel?
i have only driven 1 CVT car (Toyota Vitz) and it just felt like the auto was slipping the whole time, apart from that it went ok
personally i wouldn't get one as i prefer driving a car not just steering a car

[Brazen]

The diesel manual XTrail sounds like it would be awesome. In your shoes I would take manual diesel or petrol.

I only really like autos in 6 cylinder cars or diesels. With a 4 cylinder petrol your not having precious torque wasted getting an auto torque converter to swish fluid around to get the impeller going. Plus a manual is simply a more enjoyable driving experience. Even if your are in a lazy mood modern manuals are dead easy to drive.

I have a CVT XTrail and it's a good box and very clever - always in the perfect 'gear' especially when going downhill or in corners. I suspect it takes into account steering input, braking and some kind of g-force thingo to take into account slope but I haven't investigated it.

It's also pretty good on fuel we are averaging high 8s in heavy traffic suburban/city driving.

[Sabantien]

Have only driven two CVTs, a Camry Hybrid and an ASX.

The Camry just felt mushy and horrible, but wasn't noisy or anything. It just felt like nothing was happening when you put your foot down. This may also be related to being a hybrid. Only drove it once, was a test drive for the girl to get a new car. She also hated it.

My old work had an ASX work car that I drove quite a few times.
The car sounds like a lawn mower, is incredibly loud, and also feels like you're not accelerating, but I must admit, the CVT does actually accelerate quite well, it's not taking a break to change gears and drop down revs, so the acceleration is there, but it is deceptive.

I took it around the city a lot, but also drove Brisbane to Toowoomba and back. Going up the range the engine was screaming, and I thought I wasn't going to make it.

Awful awful car to drive. At this point if I had the choice between a CVT and a manual, I'd take a manual. But i'd also give the CVT car a test drive first to see how I felt. Because the ASX is awful doesn't mean everything is.

[greentea41]

We have had a Subaru Forester since May '16.

The CVT is great. It's a bit disconcerting because there are no shift points. When you go up a hill, the speed remains constant but the revs go up.

Economy is very good too.

We went to Melbourne from Adelaide for Christmas. Whenever I gave it a bootfull, there was no hesitation and exceeding the speed limit happened very quickly.

There is a "S" setting which I haven't used yet - never felt the need!

Obviously, Subaru got it right.

[Windsor220]

Mitsubishis CVTs were pretty bad to drive in the early days especially in things like the Colt. They've improved the software now though so they dont rev their **** off all the time.

One of the issues with the newer Outlander CVTs is they tend to go in into a too tall ratio when you are cruising around town and it sounds like the engine is labouring plus vibrates the car. Not sure if they ever fixed that issue.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

One of the issues with the newer Outlander CVTs is they tend to go in into a too tall ratio when you are cruising around town and it sounds like the engine is labouring plus vibrates the car. Not sure if they ever fixed that issue.

Fiesta etc does that too with the DSG - saves fuel

[Vesper Martini]

Driven the latest corolla with one - thought it was ace. Drove the Pathfinder thought it was ok too
keeps the revs down for economy when you put the foot down it keeps in its optimal power band.
I think a few "enthusiasts" might want it to rev more without realising that wont make it go any quicker..
To me they feel like they should be mated to a diesel I would much prefer one in My Territory than the confused excuse for a ZF it has.
I believe there is Forester Diesel CVT worth trying

To summarise if you want a sports car go for a manual, - but then if you shopping for an Outlander do you really care?

cost of repair was mentioned when they are older -I cant see them being any worse than an other 6-7 speed auto or DSG - and the CVT are by design much simpler than multi cog box's

[bingoTE50]

My Son has a New Honda Civic RS -1.5 turbo CVT . Ive driven it and I dont mind it. It has two or three settings plus paddle shift. Equal to a seven speed. 0-100 tested at 7.5 sec . Not too shabby for quite a big car that the civic has become.

[Foggy]

My wifes ASX is fun to drive with the cvt. Yes it is a totally different technique compared to a normal auto but it still moves quite well.

[Brazen]

Yeah the way I think of it is that CVTs are probably better in the first 50% of throttle and traditional autos are better in the top 50% of throttle

[Cheech]

Our small hire car in NZ was CVT equipped.

I called it the death machine.

Putting the foot down to merge or overtake the plethora of camper vans in the South Island was a hair greying experience. Lots of raucous noise and the acceleration rate of a snail.

Yes, perfectly acceptable for puttering around. But that's about it.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Cheech

Our small hire car in NZ was CVT equipped.

I called it the death machine.

Putting the foot down to merge or overtake the plethora of camper vans in the South Island was a hair greying experience. Lots of raucous noise and the acceleration rate of a snail.

Yes, perfectly acceptable for puttering around. But that's about it.

Wouldn't that be more to do with the engine size?
CVT shouldn't make the car any slower than a normal Auto