MTX 2stroke vs 4 stroke

1TUFFUTE · 22-07-2007, 09:34 PM

Im after resonably non biased opinions on what is better. A 2stroke 250 or a 4stroke 450. Not for road use and not brand new...a few years old. Im after an OVERALL opinion...thanks

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Im looking at a suzuki or a honda if that helps but not critical.

apolloxbgt · 22-07-2007, 11:20 PM

I vote 4 stroke due to lower maintnace(250.4s are better than450.4's in this department).Who wants to be putting new rings every 16 hours or whatever they are.

Also I'm lazy and like electric start's,none of this kicking buisness.

mcnews · 22-07-2007, 11:38 PM

Depends on how much performance you want. Some of the modern four-strokes are recommended to have piston and ring changes every 20 hours but in reality you can push this out to around 50 hours pretty safely.

Full race two-strokes have recommended service intervals of an hour and a half for rings and six hour for bottom ends :-> But that is full race motocrossers being spanked hard while in reality that can be pushed out to ten times that relatively safely.

A 250 two-stroke motocrosser from the last couple of years will last for ages on a set of piston and rings because basically they go so damn fecken hard off the mid-range that you never need to rev them, and you never need to be on the gas for long as throttle response is instantaneous, a modern two-stroke motocrosser always has torque on tap, and the best ones have monster mid-range and basically to use the upper revs on anything but a flat out straight you need to be a riding god.

I favour 450cc four-stroke motocrossers because like the 250cc two-strokes you don't need to rev them hard. I also like the engine braking of the four-strokes, it really makes trail riding much more fun for me as the inertia of the engine internals helps to keep the back wheel tracking true into the turns. Just makes for a more pleasant ride in my book, but that is personal preference.

If you are half decent with the spanners and want to do your own maintenance then a modern 250cc two-stroke can be a very rewarding machine and very easy to keep going strong. A piston and rings can come in at less than $200 and a 'skilled' mechanic can easily do a piston and ring change in the bike in less than half an hour. The enduro boys I have seen do a piston and ring change in 12 minutes during their service interval in enduro racing. These guys can also fix flat tyres in a couple of minutes :->

But if you are slack and just want to do regular oil changes and leave the valve clearances and top end rebuilds to the mechanics then I favour the four stroke.

Personally I love the CRF450X Honda as it has a lovely front end that tracks really nicely. They are too stiff as standard though and need to be backed off a bit for the trails. Of course all the boys that think their rooly fast stiffen them up because they are so quick (in their minds) , but in reality they already have stiffer fork springs than a 450R and even boys that win the Australian Safari and such events go softer in the suspension than standard :->

My favourite of the 250 four-strokes is KTM's new 250 EXC. Ergonomics are not as nice as the Honda for a rider that likes to sit down a bit but once up on the pegs the KTM starts to make sense and is a nice ride. Not too stiff like KTMs of old either, nice and plush enough for a brisk trail ride but not psycho stiff to punch the feck out of your kidneys and smash you to death.

Out of the 250 smokers I really do like the Husky WR250. But it is too much bike for me, it just has mega grunt everywhere and throttle response that makes any four-stroke look damn silly.

If you are just interested in general trail riding without getting really aggressive with your riding then you can't go past a DR-Z400E. Not the sharpest tool but a great engine that will take endless abuse and go forever. About 20% more power than an XR400R and about 20% less power than the latest and greatest 450cc motocross based bikes. They tread the middle ground perhaps better than any other bike and if you are not going to get really aggressive and have delusions of grandeur then it is an easy pick. That you can get one new with a good warranty for not much more than 8 grand makes them a great buy. And I know you said not for road use but it is nice to know that you can if needed commute on the DR quite reasonably. Just put some more road oriented trail tyres on it if the car is in for some work or something and you can ride it to work every day if need be.

But you really can't buy a bad bike if it was made in the last couple of years. They will all be way better than you, and me :->

TEaaron · 22-07-2007, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apolloxbgt

I vote 4 stroke due to lower maintnace(250.4s are better than450.4's in this department).Who wants to be putting new rings every 16 hours or whatever they are.

Also I'm lazy and like electric start's,none of this kicking buisness.

2 stroke MTX vs 4 stroke MTX..

the 125cc 2 strokes are high on maintance yeah

the 250cc 2 strokes are less maintance than the 4 strokes from my expirances. I had a yz250 and mates with yz250f's and their bikes had alot more problems than mine. and mine went wayy harder as well. may be different with the 450 mtx 4 strokes.

but MTX 250 4 stroke compared to MTX 250 2 stroke.. 2 stroke allllll the way.

Of course the 250 enduro bikes are a different story. I had an xr250 that thing was a tank.

Blue Oval Mopar Man · 23-07-2007, 02:54 AM

True that the 2 strokes are a little higher on maintainance , but you still have to service high performance 4 strokes regularly as well ! If you dont they wont last long , and when you do have something major go wrong , they are very expensive of parts ! I say work out what sort of riding you want to do , and go look at some of the places you wish to ride to see what others are riding ! Dont ask around because everyone has different ideas . Watch and take note of whats being riden and make your choice !

1TUFFUTE · 23-07-2007, 03:38 PM

thanxs for the detailed replies guys (mcnews) especially.

I have a mate who just finished riddin for suzi and heaps with other bikes aswell so ive been asking around for awhile to get an average opinion because everyone is ussually a little biased. So far it seams more like id get a 4stroke if i wanted to ride on the road(which i dont) and a 2stroke for mostly everything else. Dont like the sound of changing the rings so often tho, but i do have a handy mechanic so it may be allright. I wasnt planning on modding it up to much...but then i get the mod bug VERY easy

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XHXR6WPN · 23-07-2007, 03:49 PM

hey i used to ride a 99 ktm 125 sx and being a little two-stroke it was being ridden very hard and revved hard but still required not much maintenance compared to some of my mates bigger four strokes. Now i ride a 07 ktm 525 exc and the power from right down low is incredible, although doesnt have as much in the top end as i would like but still a great package.

if all you are mainly riding is out in the bush with your mates then i would suggest a four stroke such as a 450cc or bigger like my 525, if you are smaller in size and love the tight twisty tracks and like throwing the bike around i would suggest a two-stroke such as the ktm 200exc, my brother has one and the power is great for the weight of the bike and is really a quicker package than a bigger four stroke. Hondas are a reknowened for needing more maintenance than others but when kept in good condition are very quick and powerful.

JBomb3000 · 22-07-2007, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

Im after resonably non biased opinions on what is better. A 2stroke 250 or a 4stroke 450. Not for road use and not brand new...a few years old. Im after an OVERALL opinion...thanks

:

Im looking at a suzuki or a honda if that helps but not critical.

What do you ride more of, motorcross or supercross?

apolloxbgt · 22-07-2007, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBomb3000

What do you ride more of, motorcross or supercross?

Or enduro/trail?

gtfpv · 23-07-2007, 04:19 PM

i know bugger all about motor bikes so i'll just quote . 4 stroke surprised me . i bought a fun 49cc trail bike for my son . electric start semi auto 4 stroke 4 speed. i thought it would be lucky to hall my 80kg frame around . but it will lift the front wheel on the change to 2nd with me and my 25 kg son on it thats 105 kg. and will do 80 + lms /hr.
i say 4 stroke . 250 or 450.

mrniceguy · 23-07-2007, 04:28 PM

How much do you weigh?

I have a 07 CRF450 and love it, would never go back to a 2 stroke. But i weigh 100kgs and ride in sand a lot. The maintainance works out the same. 2 strokes are just less work more frequently, 4 strokes more work less frequently.

XCSEDAN · 23-07-2007, 05:37 PM

Honda XR400 mate,
i prefer yamaha, but these bikes are as reliable as hell and can take a thrashing...
heavy bike yes, but more then make up with it with the torque of the motor.
a 2stroke is a pain if you just want too ride and not worry about it.... they tend too need more matenance but it all depends on how you ride....
i personally prefer the less "peakyness" of a 4stroke, much nicer to ride if your going offroad (but if your going motorcross DEFINATLY go a 2 stroke), also another advantage is not having to mix fuel up for the four stroke....

mcnews · 23-07-2007, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCSEDAN

Honda XR400 mate,
i prefer yamaha, but these bikes are as reliable as hell and can take a thrashing...
heavy bike yes, but more then make up with it with the torque of the motor.
a 2stroke is a pain if you just want too ride and not worry about it.... they tend too need more matenance but it all depends on how you ride....
i personally prefer the less "peakyness" of a 4stroke, much nicer to ride if your going offroad (but if your going motorcross DEFINATLY go a 2 stroke), also another advantage is not having to mix fuel up for the four stroke....

XR400 is nothing but an AG farm bike in this day and age. Pure and simple. Less power and torque than a modern 250cc four-stroke.

**Falcon Coupe** · 23-07-2007, 05:45 PM

Fourstroke for trail/enduro work with better control during wheelies.
I prefer two stroke for motocross, their lightweight and allround fun factor.

JoesAu · 23-07-2007, 05:56 PM

i Had a honda racing team crf450 at my joint the other day, i must say ive never ridden such a weapon, i doubted the hondas are fair bit but they are very reliable and have changed my thought on em. i think the 250 4 strokes are really catching up as well theese days, i'll be getting a 07 ktm 250 & 450 to test ride this week, im hearing the 250 Ktm is an animal so i cant wait to ride it. In my eyes 4 strokes are the best u can race'm endouro'em watever u want. Next year Fuel injected bikes 08.

mcnews · 23-07-2007, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoesAu

i Had a honda racing team crf450 at my joint the other day, i must say ive never ridden such a weapon, i doubted the hondas are fair bit but they are very reliable and have changed my thought on em. i think the 250 4 strokes are really catching up as well theese days, i'll be getting a 07 ktm 250 & 450 to test ride this week, im hearing the 250 Ktm is an animal so i cant wait to ride it. In my eyes 4 strokes are the best u can race'm endouro'em watever u want. Next year Fuel injected bikes 08.

I rode Ando's CRF450R last year but yeah too much bike. Cody Cooper's 250 was much nicer.

The 250 EXC-F KTM is no animal, it is a damn nice ride.

I think the only fuel injected Japper next year will be the Suzuki RM-Z as I believe the others may have put their plans for injection on hold for perhaps the model year after.

VSSII · 24-07-2007, 05:51 PM

Just sold a WR 2 stroke (limited edition with rego) which I owned for 3 years, and purchased an 05 model WR250 4 stroke. I only trail ride and most trips are about a 90km round trip.
I bought the 2 dinger with new rings (you never need to touch the bottom ends) and never needed to touch the engine. EVER. It was an absolute missile and never missed a beat. I put this down to regular oil and filter changes and running the advised 32:1 oil fuel mixture. Many choose to run 40:1 which will give a gnats hair more performance but will require more frequent maintenance of course. I rebuilt the forkes several times, replaced various bearings etc but never needed to touch the engine. I averaged about 100k's to an 8 litre tank and needed to carry a bottle of oil to top up along the way.

The 4 banger? No comparison. Superior in every way. More linear power delivery (and better suspension) got rid of any arm pump and reduced fatigue on long trips. I chose a 250 for the following reasons. It's cheaper to register than a 450 and it's not my only bike, it's lighter, it has enough go for a trail rider and finally, I was one of only two of my riding group who hadn't converted to 4 strokes and we were always the most worn out at the end of the day. I ride with guys who've owned WR250's for 5+ years and have needed to shim the valves only once. Again, regular maintence is the key. Keep it clean and change the oil!

But what brand are you looking at buying? Only yesterday we were commenting that all you see in the bush are Kato's or Yamahas. if I was given a CR i'd sell it! I know you mentioned you were after a 450 4 stroke but don't write off the 250's. You'll see many 250's winning events outright these days, and for good reason.

1TUFFUTE · 24-07-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VSSII

Just sold a WR 2 stroke (limited edition with rego) which I owned for 3 years, and purchased an 05 model WR250 4 stroke. I only trail ride and most trips are about a 90km round trip.
I bought the 2 dinger with new rings (you never need to touch the bottom ends) and never needed to touch the engine. EVER. It was an absolute missile and never missed a beat. I put this down to regular oil and filter changes and running the advised 32:1 oil fuel mixture. Many choose to run 40:1 which will give a gnats hair more performance but will require more frequent maintenance of course. I rebuilt the forkes several times, replaced various bearings etc but never needed to touch the engine. I averaged about 100k's to an 8 litre tank and needed to carry a bottle of oil to top up along the way.

The 4 banger? No comparison. Superior in every way. More linear power delivery (and better suspension) got rid of any arm pump and reduced fatigue on long trips. I chose a 250 for the following reasons. It's cheaper to register than a 450 and it's not my only bike, it's lighter, it has enough go for a trail rider and finally, I was one of only two of my riding group who hadn't converted to 4 strokes and we were always the most worn out at the end of the day. I ride with guys who've owned WR250's for 5+ years and have needed to shim the valves only once. Again, regular maintence is the key. Keep it clean and change the oil!

But what brand are you looking at buying? Only yesterday we were commenting that all you see in the bush are Kato's or Yamahas. if I was given a CR i'd sell it! I know you mentioned you were after a 450 4 stroke but don't write off the 250's. You'll see many 250's winning events outright these days, and for good reason.

yeah but are u talking about 250 2stroke or 4 cus i dont want the 250 4 stroke and get used to the power to quickly. And i was looking at suzi (cus my mate raced them) or a honda. Im thinkin 2 stroke all the way at the moment...probably a couple of years old

Van D · 23-07-2007, 06:34 PM

How old is a few years old? I used to ride a 98 KX125 and my mate has around a '00 Husky 250 and we never serviced anything major after riding for about 3 years (occasional weekends, but when we rode they got a good 20+ hours worth of work).
Before that I owned a KX 80 when I was a youngin and an XR 250, never needed to do rings etc on either.. Most expensive thing was an oil change. So I dunno about the newer bikes but i'd been riding for about 10 years of my life and didn't do any major repairs to my bikes, so I wouldn't be too worried.
Just kept em clean with good oil.

herbs · 23-07-2007, 06:38 PM

2 stroke boy myself. My ktm 250sx is as reliable as they come, plus it's scary fast, love it.

schmidty · 26-07-2007, 12:24 AM

Totally dependant on the type of riding you want to do. If you want to do jumps and ride motorcross tracks, then get a 2 stroke, and get a Honda CR250 or a Yamaha YZ250 or KTM 250SX. Don't buy the enduro models CRF, WR, EXC, If you're planning on mainly riding the track. The CR, YZ and EXC are all well set up for the track.

If you want to ride bush, i definately suggest a 4 stroke. You'll ride a lot further, and work less. A couple of the guys who ride with us were pretty quickly converted to 4 strokes after we swapped bikes for the arvo. They literally both had 4 strokes within a week and were asking themselves why they'd not figured it out earlier.

As MCNEWS pointed out, the DRZ 400is a really good tractor. They pull hard at really low revs, and go reasonably well for what they are. If you go looking for one, please do yourself and those you'll go riding with a pavour and buy one that has the bloody kick start on it! They're button start, and suzuki in their stupidity thought there was no need for the kicker now they had this glorious button and deleted it from the list of standard equipment, and made it an $800 option. So there are lots of DRZ's out there that dont have one! Nothing worse when you're out riding than rooting around with someones ill prepared bike.

The CRF's are very nicely set up, and great down low, but the only thing that put me off getting one was apparently the valve clearances need to be done every 40 hours, which is half the interval of most others. It can cost anywhere from $150 - $250 to get them done if you're paying a shop. XR's are about the most bulletproof bike you could buy, but they're really just a recreational bike. They feel like a farm bike after you get off a proper enduro bike. High forward seating position, slightly cumbersome, dont handle like the others.

WRF's are good. Pretty rugged, little heavier than the crf's, and also need to be ridden a little more agressively. I've got a WR426, which is brutal and goes like a baaaastard. but tends need more revs than the others, and it's a pig to ride if you're just having a cruisy ride. Needs to be all or nothing. It's easier to handle going flat knack than half pace. All or nothing kind of bike.

KTM's you'll pay a premium for, but there is nothing on them that you can fault. Unless you hate orange, but thats the only thing anyone could complain about. The 250 and 300s are nice, but the 450 and 525 will let you know you're alive! The 525 pulls harder than a 16yr old in the shower, in any gear you've got it in, and is still pretty nimble.

Kawasaki in 4 stroke, i've been told from friends involved in racing are time bombs with short life spans, and to avoid like the plague.

I think you'd also be suprised at how versatile the 250's are in the bush. Sometimes on the really huge hills i wish i had a 250. the 400+ CC bikes tend to just be too powerful and torquey and its hard to keep the front wheel down on the hills.