Petrol smell from my 2005 BA Falcon

BarryV · 03-04-2023, 01:36 PM

I have a 2005 Falcon. When I fill the car up with petrol, I get a strong petrol smell that comes from the car & smells out my garage & comes into the house.

Mechanic has looked at it on a couple of occasions & can't find a leak or dodgy hose.

The smell only occurs when I fill the petrol tank. If I keep petrol at below half tank, the smell doesn't come back. It's only when I fill up the tank to full.

I've changed the fuel cap but it made no difference.

Has anyone had to fix a problem like this before?

Advice would be appreciated.

Thank you

T3rminator · 03-04-2023, 01:42 PM

Take the rear seat base out, remove the round fuel cover and see if any fuel is leaking through when the tank is full.

I once put the metal ring the wrong way down, fuel was seeping through, and you can smell it when the tank got filled to a certain level. If you see a leak, it's possible the seal could be wearing?

Peter B - CV8 · 03-04-2023, 02:43 PM

^^^^ and (obviously) don't use any power tool/s when doing this... you've probably got a perished hose that sits right at the top of the tank

T3rminator · 03-04-2023, 03:17 PM

One other thing. Fuel dries / evaporates quick, so you need to be quick when checking. If it's leaking bad you'll have some time and still spot it, but if it is just seepage then you need to be quick.

BarryV · 03-04-2023, 05:40 PM

Thank you so much for your advice

Much appreciated

Barry

BarryV · 03-04-2023, 06:33 PM

Could the petrol smell come from a charcoal canister not working? Not sure if my BA Falcon actually has one

Franco Cozzo · 05-04-2023, 05:00 PM

I saw a wagon which the rubber joint between the filler neck and the tank perished and was causing a similar issue.

BarryV · 05-04-2023, 07:37 PM

Thanks for your thoughts Franco. Appreciated.

arm79 · 05-04-2023, 09:14 PM

If its a sedan the likely first place to start is the short rubber hose that connects the filler pipe to the tank itself. They are randomly starting to perish and start to leak fumes and eventually to leak fuel itself.

I've replaced both hoses on my and Dad's BF. Dad's was bad, it looked like someone had taken a stanley knife to it, cutting slits along the length and was leaking fuel. Mine you could smell a faint fuel smell under the car on a hot day and only when you really squeezed the hose hard once removed could you see any sign of damage.

If it is that, good luck finding one. They are very rare at the moment, rare as rocking horse ****. Doesn't help that the assholes at Ford decided to make the filler pipe and tank inlet different sizes, so you cant even used some standard hose to do the job.

Worst case you might have a crack in the tank or a seam where a fitting protrudes from the tank. Apparently this was pretty common at one point, tanks failing under warranty.

The join around the 2 white circles on the left of the tank fail and fuel and vapour and fuel can leak from there. You don't want it to be this because you need to take the cradle out to get the tank out.

The carbon canister is under the raised section of the boot floor, right behind the seats. It's just off the drivers side of centre. You need to jack the car up and get in there with a light as its wedged up deep between the floor, cradle and fuel tank.

Start with the fuel filler hose, cross your fingers and hope its that.

BarryV · 06-04-2023, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arm79

If its a sedan the likely first place to start is the short rubber hose that connects the filler pipe to the tank itself. They are randomly starting to perish and start to leak fumes and eventually to leak fuel itself.

I've replaced both hoses on my and Dad's BF. Dad's was bad, it looked like someone had taken a stanley knife to it, cutting slits along the length and was leaking fuel. Mine you could smell a faint fuel smell under the car on a hot day and only when you really squeezed the hose hard once removed could you see any sign of damage.

image

If it is that, good luck finding one. They are very rare at the moment, rare as rocking horse ****. Doesn't help that the assholes at Ford decided to make the filler pipe and tank inlet different sizes, so you cant even used some standard hose to do the job.

Worst case you might have a crack in the tank or a seam where a fitting protrudes from the tank. Apparently this was pretty common at one point, tanks failing under warranty.

image

The join around the 2 white circles on the left of the tank fail and fuel and vapour and fuel can leak from there. You don't want it to be this because you need to take the cradle out to get the tank out.

The carbon canister is under the raised section of the boot floor, right behind the seats. It's just off the drivers side of centre. You need to jack the car up and get in there with a light as its wedged up deep between the floor, cradle and fuel tank.

Start with the fuel filler hose, cross your fingers and hope its that.

Thanks for coming back to me with so much detail & Pics. If I keep my tank at half full or below, I don't have a problem with the petrol fumes. I accidentally filled up to three quarters two days ago & the petrol fumes filled my garage & came into my house so pretty strong! If the smell from the fumes came back with the tank at three quarters full, is it more likely to be from tank than the rubber hose to the filler pipe.

arm79 · 06-04-2023, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarryV

Thanks for coming back to me with so much detail & Pics. If I keep my tank at half full or below, I don't have a problem with the petrol fumes. I accidentally filled up to three quarters two days ago & the petrol fumes filled my garage & came into my house so pretty strong! If the smell from the fumes came back with the tank at three quarters full, is it more likely to be from tank than the rubber hose to the filler pipe.

Id still check out the hose.

In Dad's case it only smelt after he filled the tank and for the next few days. The smell got progressively worse as time went on until one day you could smell it 10 feet from the car. Looking underneath is when I first say fuel dripping from the hose.

The rubber hose is easy to access. Get on your back and look up under the bumper, it's in full view. Grab the hose and squeeze it a few times. See if you are any indications of perishing. Also smell your hand after, if it smells of fuel it's that.

I've also read of failures in the seam where the tank inlet meets the tank. So look for leaks from there.

Also investigate T3rminator idea. The fuel pump is sealed to the tank by a weird design seal. As you can see in the pic, at a certain point, half a tank or more, the entire bottom half of the tank is filled to the brim. Any failure of this seal when the tank is filled past half will instantly show a leak.

BarryV · 06-04-2023, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arm79

Id still check out the hose.

In Dad's case it only smelt after he filled the tank and for the next few days. The smell got progressively worse as time went on until one day you could smell it 10 feet from the car. Looking underneath is when I first say fuel dripping from the hose.

The rubber hose is easy to access. Get on your back and look up under the bumper, it's in full view. Grab the hose and squeeze it a few times. See if you are any indications of perishing. Also smell your hand after, if it smells of fuel it's that.

I've also read of failures in the seam where the tank inlet meets the tank. So look for leaks from there.

Also investigate T3rminator idea. The fuel pump is sealed to the tank by a weird design seal. As you can see in the pic, at a certain point, half a tank or more, the entire bottom half of the tank is filled to the brim. Any failure of this seal when the tank is filled past half will instantly show a leak.

Really appreciate your advice. Thank you

Franco Cozzo · 05-04-2023, 10:42 PM

If you have no love chasing up the hose, Pirtek might have some hose that would suit - one of the lads at work had this drama and our local Pirtek had something suitable off the shelf and it cost **** all.

arm79 · 06-04-2023, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

If you have no love chasing up the hose, Pirtek might have some hose that would suit - one of the lads at work had this drama and our local Pirtek had something suitable off the shelf and it cost **** all.

There is a mob on Fleabay that sells a "kit" to replace the factory hose. A short length of fuel hose and 3 or 4 clamps.

But the problem is, and I think I have this the right way round, the tank inlet is 32mm, the filler pipe is 28mm and the hose is 30mm. Or might be 32mm hose and 30mm tank inlet.

The hose over the tank works on, but you need 2 or 3 house clamps in the filler pipe ro make a seal. It's an any port in a storm type fix.

Franco Cozzo · 07-04-2023, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arm79

There is a mob on Fleabay that sells a "kit" to replace the factory hose. A short length of fuel hose and 3 or 4 clamps.

But the problem is, and I think I have this the right way round, the tank inlet is 32mm, the filler pipe is 28mm and the hose is 30mm. Or might be 32mm hose and 30mm tank inlet.

The hose over the tank works on, but you need 2 or 3 house clamps in the filler pipe ro make a seal. It's an any port in a storm type fix.

Ah yes, I too enjoy the taste of a **** sandwich, this thread is chock full of them regardless which restaurant you choose, reeks of Princess Cruises.

arm79 · 07-04-2023, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Ah yes, I too enjoy the taste of a **** sandwich, this thread is chock full of them regardless which restaurant you choose, reeks of Princess Cruises.

I'm sensing come covid cruise regret?

Peter B - CV8 · 06-04-2023, 10:05 AM

It just means that the fuel has reached a level whereby it able to slosh about & leak from what ever hose/seal has perished.

T3rminator · 06-04-2023, 10:37 AM

Did you check the area I told you? If it is leaking there, fuel will sit on top because that part is flat. Its wear the fuel pump housing goes. Its also where passengers sit right on top of, so better to check quick if you haven't already.

In Arm's photo, its the lower part, so if its 3/4 full, that bit will be filled.

BarryV · 06-04-2023, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Did you check the area I told you? If it is leaking there, fuel will sit on top because that part is flat. Its wear the fuel pump housing goes. Its also where passengers sit right on top of, so better to check quick if you haven't already.

In Arm's photo, its the lower part, so if its 3/4 full, that bit will be filled.

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated

arm79 · 06-04-2023, 09:39 PM

Little bit of BS trivia for everyone. Call it an Easter gift for you.

The fuel level is measured by a simple float on the end of a metal arm as in this pic.

The arm runs down the outer passenger side of the tank and the float is the round thing at the end.

Now, if you try to remove the fuel pump with 1/2 a tank or more of fuel, fuel will come flooding out that hole. As you can see, a considerable part of the tank is above the level of the fuel pump. At least 1/3 of the capacity, probably close to 1/2.

So if any level of fuel greater than 1/2 a tank fills the lower chamber to the brim, which means the float is jammed against the roof of the tank, how does the gauge manage to display a lowering level of fuel when the tank is, say, completely full. The float is jammed hard against the top, so it wont move until the tank is 1/2 full or less.

My only conclusion is the cluster guesses how much fuel is in the tank for anything over 1/2. Calculates the decreasing level based on fuel injected.

But back on topic... I found these old pics I borrowed from someone on the net ages ago.

There was a failure in the join around this white plastic bit.

Which resulted in fuel leaking out when the tank was full. But only when the tank was full.

As I said, hopefully not your problem.

BarryV · 07-04-2023, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arm79

Little bit of BS trivia for everyone. Call it an Easter gift for you.

The fuel level is measured by a simple float on the end of a metal arm as in this pic.

image

The arm runs down the outer passenger side of the tank and the float is the round thing at the end.

Now, if you try to remove the fuel pump with 1/2 a tank or more of fuel, fuel will come flooding out that hole. As you can see, a considerable part of the tank is above the level of the fuel pump. At least 1/3 of the capacity, probably close to 1/2.

So if any level of fuel greater than 1/2 a tank fills the lower chamber to the brim, which means the float is jammed against the roof of the tank, how does the gauge manage to display a lowering level of fuel when the tank is, say, completely full. The float is jammed hard against the top, so it wont move until the tank is 1/2 full or less.

My only conclusion is the cluster guesses how much fuel is in the tank for anything over 1/2. Calculates the decreasing level based on fuel injected.

But back on topic... I found these old pics I borrowed from someone on the net ages ago.

There was a failure in the join around this white plastic bit.

image

Which resulted in fuel leaking out when the tank was full. But only when the tank was full.

image

As I said, hopefully not your problem.

Thanks again Arm. Appreciated.

T3rminator · 07-04-2023, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arm79

My only conclusion is the cluster guesses how much fuel is in the tank for anything over 1/2. Calculates the decreasing level based on fuel injected.

Just thinking about this, there must be some other mechanism to read the fuel level above 50%. If the cluster is guessing, then it won't know if you filled it up 51% or 100%. I know if I dump 75% into the tank, the gauge will read 3/4.

I do know if you fill it right up to the filler neck, the gauge will show full for a much longer period of time, obviously because there is no "sensor" on the neck, so there must be something at the top of the tank to give another reading?