motor bike accident

mik · 28-12-2007, 12:20 PM

was on my way to Craigieburn yesterday travelling down Mahoneys rd Thomastown (Melb)the traffic became a single file, there was a motor bike rider out cold on the road in a very arkward position, there was a constable holding his head he had no helmet on , on the trip home the poor bugger was still on road covered in a sheet, investigative unit taking photo`s, i still have the image in my head, condolances to the family and friends, a job i would`nt want to be a copper or ambo staff or medical staff dealing with this day in and day out ..........a big salute to these people.

XR6-VCT-2000 · 29-12-2007, 10:20 PM

Sure is a tragic accident, especialy this time of year, and a horrible job to have to deal with this stuff / credit to the guys who do. After 2 motorbike crashes in the past ( neither my own fault !) , and after serious injuries, but now not too bad considering all, i consider myself very luck to be alive. I still love them and all and am nearly considering getting back on a bike, although i would probably steer away from the superbikes this time and head towards something like a harley, more cruisy' and louder so people can hear me coming a mile away, so they are aware im there and dont run into me !!!!. cheers.

Feathers · 30-12-2007, 02:34 AM

A mate of my Father's was an ambo, and said he would often turn up to such accidents.
The riders would sometimes be fine and talking to the coppers, with just a headache, until the cop suggested he take his helmet off.
Within minutes, the rider would be dead. The helmet stops some of the swelling in a head injury, but take the helmet off, and the brain has nowhere to go but back down the spinal area.

**aussiblue** · 30-12-2007, 02:53 AM

There is some controversy about if it is best to remove the helmet after an accident or not. For example see:
http://www.mrf.org/pdf/WhitePapers/V...metRemoval.pdf

Quote:

The old wives's tale about not removing the helmet because it might be the only thing holding the victim's head together, is just so much HOGWASH!
Consider this: if there were going to be that much kinetic energy transmitted through the helmet to the victim's head, so as to cause that type of massive head trauma, then there would
not be an intact helmet on the victim's head to begin with.
More importantly, leaving the helmet on the victim and transporting the patient strapped to a spinal immobilization board (commonly referred to as a longboard), with the helmet taped to the board is just poor patient care for the following reasons:
1) Leaving the helmet on makes it impossible to apply a cervical collar to stabilize the patent's cervical spine
2) Many helmets do not properly fit the wearer (almost exclusively the fault of the wearer.
The head is not held securely within the helmet, allowing for it to move around inside of the helmet, partially defeating the purpose of the helmet. This leads to the potential for exacerbating
the spinal injuries you are trying to prevent.
3) Leaving the helmet on the head of the victim and securing the patient supine to the longboard causes unnecessary flexion of the cervical spine. Again, this too can cause further cervical spine injury.
4) It is almost impossible to monitor patient's airway while they are wearing a full face helmet. Generally speaking, you would want to treat such a patient with supplemental oxygen. It would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to properly apply an oxygen mask to the patient while wearing a full face helmet.
5) If the need arose while treating a patient wearing a full face helmet to have to clear their airway of foreign matter, such as vomitus or other fluids, it would again be almost impossible to properly insert a suction catheter into the patient's mouth.

Versus
http://www.msgroup.org/tip.aspx?num=097

Quote:

If possible place some sort of support collar around the riders neck, and if they are still wearing their helmet do not remove it and do not let the casualty remove it.

snip----------------------------------

The part about not removing the helmet is critical unless you have had special training on how to do it properly (and it requires two people). But one thing to be prepared for is that riders that have crashed and gone under (unconscious) often are very claustrophobic when they wake up, and want their helmet removed NOW, especially if it is a full-face (they will fight you to get it off). Do not let them convince you to remove it unless there is a medical need to remove it. Keep in mind that anyone that has gone unconscious or has hit their head MUST be assumed to have cervical spine damage until proven otherwise at a hospital.

**aussiblue** · 30-12-2007, 02:58 AM

http://www.molenda.com/accident.html

Quote:

5a) If breathing is taking place normally, LEAVE HELMET ON!
It is very dangerous to remove someone's helmet if they have some type of cervical/back injury. The only time it should be removed is if the airway is blocked and cannot be cleared with the helmet on or if it is necessary to perform CPR.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5b) helmet removal procedure if airway blocked or no respiratory action.
This is the method recommended by the American College of Orthopedic Surgeons. It requires two people.

Remove glasses and unbuckle the chinstrap. One person should be to the side of the head of the victim and the other person should be directly behind the head of the victim, stabilizing the head to avoid excess movement (as seen in (3)).

The person on the side puts one hand behind the victim's head supporting at the base of the skull (not on helmet). They put their other hand on the jaw bone/chin (again, not on helmet). They will be supporting the head, so it is important to get a good solid grip. Keep some tension in the arms so that if the person pulling the helmet slips the victim's head won't drop.

The person sitting behind the head will then slowly pull the helmet directly back and off of the head. Watch out for catching the nose on the chin-guard on full-face helmets, as well as ears and earrings.

After the helmet is off, put a leather jacket or something under the head of the victim! If the person supporting their head lets go, their head will drop a good 4 inches or so. This would not be good. If possible, it would be best to have a third person ready with something to place under the victim's head once the helmet is off

After the helmet is off, the person behind the head should again hold the victim's head to promote cervical immobilization.

AGAIN, THIS IS ONLY TO BE USED IN SITUATIONS WHERE THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION! Leave the helmet on until the ambulance personnel arrive if at all possible!

and http://www.motorcycle-training.f2s.com/safety.html

Quote:

Should I remove the Helmet?
If the rider is breathing and there is no danger of choking, do not attempt to remove the helmet. If the rider is unconscious and clearly not breathing, then they will die without your help. To perform resuscitation effictively you may need to remove the helmet. However, this can be done with the helmet in place, if it is an open face or syncro/combination helmet (look for the red quick release tabs on the chin bar). However, a full face helmet with a solid chin bar will need to be removed and requires two people as follows:
Undo the chin strap (seperate the double Ds or click the quick release. Alternatively cut carefully if easier).
One person must support the head and neck, while the other gently eases the helmet back until it is free of the chin
then move it forward until it clears the base of the skull.
It can then be lifted off.

**aussiblue** · 30-12-2007, 03:11 AM

St Johns at http://www.stjohnnsw.com.au/tc_mfa.html are suggesting it only be removed in certain circumstances so I guess in Oz we should only remove it if we know what we are doing and where leaving it on poses some obvious risk to the victim.

chivalrydreams · 30-12-2007, 11:58 AM

I know what it is like to be that Motorcycle rider on the side of the road. At 7.45am in the morning Christmas 2004 an old fella failed to give way and I plowed into him at 80 KPH became airborne and broke my back on the side of the tray of his ute paralyzing me instantly from the waist down. The ambulance crews, the police they were all fantastic. The Crew from Careflight saved my life for which I will be eternally grateful. I can't give enough praise to the people that have to deal with this everyday and their expertise is often what makes the difference between life and death. I often hear people say that speed doesn't matter but I know that because I was sitting just under the speed limit that there has never been any accusations against me by the Police or the other driver that I was in any way to blame for the accident. The driver of the other vehicle had no choice but to plead guilty to Dangerous Driving Causing Grievous Bodily Harm. This has made my journey through the Third Party Claims process so much easier. I also believe that if I had of been speeding that I would not have survived. I really do understand why ambulance crews and the police get so angry about accidents that are caused by people speeding and taking risks. I can still vividly remember being asked at least 100 times how fast I was going. Luckily the crash scene investigation verified that I was just under the speed limit.

mik · 30-12-2007, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chivalrydreams

I know what it is like to be that Motorcycle rider on the side of the road. At 7.45am in the morning Christmas 2004 an old fella failed to give way and I plowed into him at 80 KPH became airborne and broke my back on the side of the tray of his ute paralyzing me instantly from the waist down. The ambulance crews, the police they were all fantastic. The Crew from Careflight saved my life for which I will be eternally grateful. I can't give enough praise to the people that have to deal with this everyday and their expertise is often what makes the difference between life and death. I often hear people say that speed doesn't matter but I know that because I was sitting just under the speed limit that there has never been any accusations against me by the Police or the other driver that I was in any way to blame for the accident. The driver of the other vehicle had no choice but to plead guilty to Dangerous Driving Causing Grievous Bodily Harm. This has made my journey through the Third Party Claims process so much easier. I also believe that if I had of been speeding that I would not have survived. I really do understand why ambulance crews and the police get so angry about accidents that are caused by people speeding and taking risks. I can still vividly remember being asked at least 100 times how fast I was going. Luckily the crash scene investigation verified that I was just under the speed limit.

sorry to hear that mate i hope your rehab is a speedy one, my dads mate was pro rider many years ago he was coming back from an event that he had just won and ended up under the front of a falcon, not his fault apparently and even with good bike skills could`nt save himself it just happened too fast.

theunfairadvant · 30-12-2007, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chivalrydreams

I know what it is like to be that Motorcycle rider on the side of the road. At 7.45am in the morning Christmas 2004 an old fella failed to give way and I plowed into him at 80 KPH became airborne and broke my back on the side of the tray of his ute paralyzing me instantly from the waist down. The ambulance crews, the police they were all fantastic. The Crew from Careflight saved my life for which I will be eternally grateful. I can't give enough praise to the people that have to deal with this everyday and their expertise is often what makes the difference between life and death. I often hear people say that speed doesn't matter but I know that because I was sitting just under the speed limit that there has never been any accusations against me by the Police or the other driver that I was in any way to blame for the accident. The driver of the other vehicle had no choice but to plead guilty to Dangerous Driving Causing Grievous Bodily Harm. This has made my journey through the Third Party Claims process so much easier. I also believe that if I had of been speeding that I would not have survived. I really do understand why ambulance crews and the police get so angry about accidents that are caused by people speeding and taking risks. I can still vividly remember being asked at least 100 times how fast I was going. Luckily the crash scene investigation verified that I was just under the speed limit.

Sorry to hear about your accident, hope that you are in tiptop condition now.

I see that you live in Thirlmere & i have been to that place
about 5 yrs ago to see the old railway museum.
It was a very nice and quiet place to live in.

Zeuspig · 30-12-2007, 03:23 PM

It's always terrible to hear/see these types of things especically when I ride everwhere.

I agree credit to those who attend these types of things.

The police always cop such disrespect from alot of people when they are doing there jobs.

When I was younger I never thought alot of them but now a bit more mature. They deserve alot more credit then they get!!

**ebxr8240** · 30-12-2007, 01:11 PM

Been to too many myself...
Brings back too many bad bad things...
Worst is when the parents arrive...
I was on call as lineworker, car hit poles..
99% of the time the pole wins....

**Professor Farnsworth** · 30-12-2007, 01:14 PM

i saw the accident as well, at the stage where the sheet was over him. I was also in the city the night before when that poor girl was mowed down by some idiot on the wrong side of the road. I've seen way too many dead bodies for my lifetime.

Apparently the guy was hit by a truck anyway.

chivalrydreams · 30-12-2007, 09:28 PM

Thanks for all the kind words. I am permanently disabled and I am as good as I will get, but life is certainly still worth living and I have learnt a lot about myself and other people along the way. I always take the view that no matter how bad it looks there is always somebody doing it tougher. Yes Thirlmere is a nice quiet place to live and the Railway Museum has plans for a major Tourist facility to be built which will be great when its finished.

revcore · 30-12-2007, 09:44 PM

I've only ever seen one motor bike accident. About 5 years ago along Plenty Road out side the Bridge Inn Hotel in Mernda right at the round-a-bout, There was a bloke what looked to be in his 50's or 60's lying motionless on the side of the road. His bike was a short distance away with the forks bent inwards. There was also a white Valiant parked on the opposite side of the road with major rear end damage. Apparently the bloke on the bike was speeding and couldn't stop in time thus riding into the back of the Valiant that was stopped at the round-a-bout. The driver of the Valiant was in tears and being comforted by a police woman. I later found out that the rider of the motor bike had died and was found to have been heavily intoxicated.
A very frightening thing to see and something I hope I never see again.

revcore · 30-12-2007, 09:49 PM

Here is where it happened.....I get a sick feeling in my stomach every time I see this place.

Agent86 · 31-12-2007, 08:38 AM

at that roundabout in mernda, i've nearly been taken out a few times by tools who think indicators are not compulsary.. there is a reason i bought a 1000 not a 600. the torque that let me open the throttle and get out of there has saved me a few times..

in all honesty, as a truck driver, car driver and bike rider, the one i will give up soon is road riding, it is unbelievable how many tools drive without and car or attention even on the country roads ( i wont ride city or suburbs. ). Might be a wise move to stick to the dirt. less traffic out there. and trees dont make random right turns in front of you

**GasoLane** · 01-01-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revcore

I've only ever seen one motor bike accident.A very frightening thing to see and something I hope I never see again>>>>>
Here is where it happened.....I get a sick feeling in my stomach every time I see this place.

Hmm, if crashes affect you like this perhaps you should change this....
"By Demons Be Driven...
Location: In your head telling you to kill"

To something less 'tuff'

Green X · 30-12-2007, 09:58 PM

Ya just been involved in a motorbike crash, rolled my Quad on the beach down south came out Ok but my leg got court on the Exhaust as she went over and i now got a rather bad burn on the side of my calf muscle.

A few of the people who looked at it wile i was dressing it seamed to think i may need a skin graft (**** I hope not)

One reason I will never ride a Road bike, off-road it fairly straight froward you know the tarane you are riding in (beach or trails or a mixture and can make judgement calls on a Public road anything can happen, 2 ton car Vs motorbike, Bike will lose every time.

SuperMono · 31-12-2007, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green X

One reason I will never ride a Road bike, off-road it fairly straight froward you know the tarane you are riding in (beach or trails or a mixture and can make judgement calls on a Public road anything can happen, 2 ton car Vs motorbike, Bike will lose every time.

Can't really agree, your step off supports that you can't know everything and make the correct judgement call every time.
I have ridden on and off road for years and have a large group of friends from similar (riding) backgrounds. Of those that limp or can't use one or more limbs properly the majority had off road incidents. Trees, bikes/4wd in opposite direction etc.
Just as unpredictable off road as on.
Having said that, on road you must treat every other road user (including dogs and pedestrians) as a knife wielding psycho out to get you.
I have sadly lost more friends in car crashes on road (single car, run off road type) than bike riding anywhere.
Be careful everywhere in everything that moves is my motto, appropriate speed and antics for each situation.

jcxr · 31-12-2007, 11:01 AM

Ah, the old Bridge Inn. Lionel Roses old pub.

Green X · 31-12-2007, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMono

Can't really agree, your step off supports that you can't know everything and make the correct judgement call every time.

Yes, I guess what i was saying is, if i am blasting down the beach and come off the bike that's my-fault, same as if i were riding on a trail that is used by 4WD's as-well and i was going too fast and have a head on, that would be my-fault also. On the road like you say treat everyone as a maniac.

I worked with a guy who every 2 weeks would ride his sports bike 600km at night on country roads back home after his roster but would refuse to ride it around the city any time other than on his way back home as he reckoned it was too dangerous.

revcore · 01-01-2008, 03:37 PM

Seeing someone dead on the side of the road having been involved in an accident, And something on a website are two different things.
"By Demons Be Driven...
Location: In your head telling you to kill" These are just words not to be taken seriously where as the carnage of a fatal crash is something that would scare any normal person.

**GasoLane** · 01-01-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revcore

Seeing someone dead on the side of the road having been involved in an accident, And something on a website are two different things.
"By Demons Be Driven...
Location: In your head telling you to kill" These are just words not to be taken seriously where as the carnage of a fatal crash is something that would scare any normal person.

Oh, ok. Well dont drive a Truck then otherwise you'll be scared most of the way around Oz

rodderz · 01-01-2008, 04:38 PM

There's been quite a few accidents at Mernda roundabout there, also a few at Sth Morang too but now it's a large new inteersection with Plenty Rd becoming a duel carriage way to Whittlesea in the next few years.

My dad used to ride bikes a fair bit before I was born, he had a road bike and a trail bike but was forced by the old cheese to get rid of them after his cousin died on a bike.

I wouldnt ride a bike on the road, it's not a case of me feeling unsafe riding but I wouldnt be able to trust the other road users if they suddenly have a case of brain fade. I wouldnt like the idea of being run into without 4 sides and a roof over my head to help protect in some way