hsv direct inj lpg

burnz · 18-12-2008, 06:27 PM

hsv has a newie for the new year with direct injection gas v8 duell fuel and DOD
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2575210021F9AB

**ebxr8240** · 18-12-2008, 07:03 PM

Is this going to be another media release where latter they don't come up with the goods...

burnz · 18-12-2008, 07:12 PM

is HSV going green ???

T3ts50 · 18-12-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

is HSV going green ???

Apparently. They are also have a few Diesel mules going about. One which is a BMW turbo diesel. They will confirm the diesels in April next year. They are also hoping to bring out the Corsa VXR and a the Insignia VXR from Europe. So it does sound like they are trying to go green.

Jack91 · 18-12-2008, 07:27 PM

Sounds like a good idea, I like the idea of it switching to petrol when you boot it. I dont follow LPG at all though so that could have been around the last 5 years. Would holden australia have the capacity to convert all these engines themselves or would chev/GM have to give it the ok and make it over there for them?

Gobes32 · 18-12-2008, 07:35 PM

Holden/HSV have a history of announcing projects before they are given the green light. It's funny really because Ford OZ will beat them to having that same gas system fitted to Falcons. But nobody knows that because Ford don't make a song and dance about everything they work on or develop.

prydey · 18-12-2008, 08:04 PM

'new technology that you can't get in the aftermarket industry'

yeah, they really did their research on that one. I'm tipping the guys at ALPGW might beg to differ.

they don't actually say what sort of injection it will be. considering it says direct injection i'd imagine they are referring to liquid injection. i'd be mildly amused if this you beaut technology of theirs turns out to be vapour injected.

whales · 19-12-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Holden/HSV have a history of announcing projects before they are given the green light. It's funny really because Ford OZ will beat them to having that same gas system fitted to Falcons. But nobody knows that because Ford don't make a song and dance about everything they work on or develop.

So true about Ford not making a song and dance but perhaps they should

Gobes32 · 19-12-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whales

So true about Ford not making a song and dance but perhaps they should

Maybe they are worried about looking stupid when the project gets canned, there was a diesel territory getting around campbellfield when Polities was in charge. However not many people knew because it was only a feasibility study. They didn't hold a press conference etc like Holden seem to.

Gobes32 · 18-12-2008, 08:13 PM

When you go to a lpg place to put your e series on gas, you have two options, the old gravity fed vapour system for around $2600 or liquid injection for around $4500. The second option starts the car on petrol and then when it gets to a nice temp it switches to gas, if you just cruise or light acceleration it will remain on gas, if you boot it or are towing or going up a steep hill then it switches back to petrol. Liquid injection supposedly does not backfire, blow the airbox up(lol) or lose much power because it goes through the injectors and not a "mixer" as such.

Rumor has it that the I6 will be offered as liquid injection shortly as it qualifies as a "green" motor under Ruddy's plan.

bodes-sh · 18-12-2008, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

When you go to a lpg place to put your e series on gas, you have two options, the old gravity fed vapour system for around $2600 or liquid injection for around $4500. The second option starts the car on petrol and then when it gets to a nice temp it switches to gas, if you just cruise or light acceleration it will remain on gas, if you boot it or are towing or going up a steep hill then it switches back to petrol. Liquid injection supposedly does not backfire, blow the airbox up(lol) or lose much power because it goes through the injectors and not a "mixer" as such.

Rumor has it that the I6 will be offered as liquid injection shortly as it qualifies as a "green" motor under Ruddy's plan.

you have that wrong. the options are mixer or vapour injection. not liquid injection. liquid injection doesn't change over after a certain temperature, it has a set purge time to get any lpg vapour in the fuel lines out, then it changes to lpg. also, liquid injection doesn't need to switch back to petrol because it uses the petrol ecu to control the gas injectors and has it's own pump to keep the pressure constant. the only time it changes back to petrol is if you run out of lpg...

Gobes32 · 18-12-2008, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodes-sh

you have that wrong. the options are mixer or vapour injection. not liquid injection. liquid injection doesn't change over after a certain temperature, it has a set purge time to get any lpg vapour in the fuel lines out, then it changes to lpg. also, liquid injection doesn't need to switch back to petrol because it uses the petrol ecu to control the gas injectors and has it's own pump to keep the pressure constant. the only time it changes back to petrol is if you run out of lpg...

Sorry, If you can't already tell I don't have lpg.........But I only got the names Wrong???????

bodes-sh · 18-12-2008, 08:15 PM

so is the current motor direct injection or not? i'm assuming if their lpg system is in fact direct injection and not just standard sequential injection then they have redeveloped the entire top half of the motor...?

edit;

Quote:

Originally Posted by go auto

The dual-fuel system automatically switches from LPG to petrol under engine load to ensure it delivers the kind of performance expected from a muscle car.

The system starts using petrol and then switches to LPG. When the driver presses the throttle hard, the system quickly switches back to petrol for the best possible performance.

Mr Harding said the LPG system had passed the first test: performance delivery.

hmmm, obviously not liquid injection then...seems like good old svi to me

bodes-sh · 18-12-2008, 09:26 PM

didn't mean to sound like i was having a go at you...i didn't know you didn't realise the difference...sorry

Buzz Box · 18-12-2008, 09:55 PM

Either way its seems interesting but it stinks of mouth before money......

GTP-814 · 18-12-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buzz Box

Either way its seems interesting but it stinks of mouth before money......

Why would you come to expect anything else from holden.

I also read thta they are talking of a V8 diesel with the same KW as current 307's. Fact or fiction

ltd · 18-12-2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP-814

Why would you come to expect anything else from holden.

I also read thta they are talking of a V8 diesel with the same KW as current 307's. Fact or fiction

Fiction.

When they find out what it will cost it will disappear just like all of Holdens big plans. Remember one thing, GM are set to go bust and they don't have any diesels like that in their stable, so Holden sure as won't have an engine option. Methinks that the lads in marketing have confused December with April the 1st.
Oh, and Daewoo have no such Diesel engine either.

Bossxr8 · 18-12-2008, 10:54 PM

Just remember the Commodore Hybrid will be released next year.

How many HSV loving bogans would care about the environment, probably none, the only benefit they would see would be in cost savings, but considering petrol is relatively cheap at the moment and anyone who can afford a HSV probably wouldn't have much trouble paying for fuel, i'm not sure if it will have a high take up.

burnz · 19-12-2008, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd

Fiction.

When they find out what it will cost it will disappear just like all of Holdens big plans. Remember one thing, GM are set to go bust and they don't have any diesels like that in their stable, so Holden sure as won't have an engine option. Methinks that the lads in marketing have confused December with April the 1st.
Oh, and Daewoo have no such Diesel engine either.

detroit diesel ~ allison, is gm diesel division
i am shure thay will have a series 30, 40, type engine available, whether hsv get them is a different story.

whales · 19-12-2008, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

detroit diesel ~ allison, is gm diesel division
i am shure thay will have a series 30, 40, type engine available, whether hsv get them is a different story.

I thought GM off loaded Detroit a few years ago

MAD · 18-12-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by go auto

The system starts using petrol and then switches to LPG. When the driver presses the throttle hard, the system quickly switches back to petrol for the best possible performance.

Interesting comment this one. I guess they havetn researched that much or they would have seen that the XR6 turbos that have been fitted with liquid LPG injection have actually had a small increase in power.

Good to see the most abundant fuel in aus getting some media attention and usage out of more factories.

Interesting how HSV have changed though, I remember back in the day were trying to discredit Tickford for fitting LPG systems. My how times have changed since that tool left the top job. Next they might even try to hot up a 6cyl heaven forbid.

FGX-351 · 19-12-2008, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

Interesting how HSV have changed though, I remember back in the day were trying to discredit Tickford for fitting LPG systems. My how times have changed since that tool left the top job. Next they might even try to hot up a 6cyl heaven forbid.

XU6 FTL lol

naddis01 · 18-12-2008, 10:01 PM

Are the LS3s direct injection, because there are rumours around that there are direct injection liquid injection systems (as opposed to normal liquid injection) being developed, but I beleive these can only be fitted to direct injection engines. If its not a direct injection liquid injection system then it cant be too much different to any systems on the market now.

No matter what sort of system it is, if it delivers the goods, I beleive it can only be a good thing and might dispell a few of the myths out there on LPG which to me is the most underrated fuel in this country. Now if only Ford could bring out a decent liquid injection system and finally pension off the prehistoric Egas system.

prydey · 19-12-2008, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Now if only Ford could bring out a decent liquid injection system and finally pension off the prehistoric Egas system.

the only reason ford are still going with the mixer setup is because they locked themselves into a supply contract with vialle (or something to that effect).

it may be older technology but it is well sorted and serves the purpose for which its designed. taxi's love it because of the very low service costs.

i have one (bfmk2) and i'm more than happy with it. still ample power for a family wagon and cheap to run.

naddis01 · 19-12-2008, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

the only reason ford are still going with the mixer setup is because they locked themselves into a supply contract with vialle (or something to that effect).

it may be older technology but it is well sorted and serves the purpose for which its designed. taxi's love it because of the very low service costs.

i have one (bfmk2) and i'm more than happy with it. still ample power for a family wagon and cheap to run.

I understand that they are restricted but it doesnt escape the fact that it is a very outdated system.

I too have a BF mk2 Egas (RTV for work) and compared to my old BA XLS that I converted to SVI it is a POS. As is the 4 speed auto. Lucky I dont own the thing as I would be very disappointed if I did.

outback_ute · 19-12-2008, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naddis01

Are the LS3s direct injection, because there are rumours around that there are direct injection liquid injection systems (as opposed to normal liquid injection) being developed, but I beleive these can only be fitted to direct injection engines. If its not a direct injection liquid injection system then it cant be too much different to any systems on the market now.

No matter what sort of system it is, if it delivers the goods, I beleive it can only be a good thing and might dispell a few of the myths out there on LPG which to me is the most underrated fuel in this country. Now if only Ford could bring out a decent liquid injection system and finally pension off the prehistoric Egas system.

No LS3 is not direct injection, I think the HSV man has his terminology confused and you are most likely correct it is something that is out now. Direct injection = into the cylinder, not via an intake runner.

Would HSV be considering an inline BMW diesel? Would it fit in the engine bay & not upset crash testing performance? I don't think a 3L turbodiesel would give suitable performance either - not much more torque than the current engine in the best case (even though it is at lower revs etc) and a heap less power - perhaps they are looking at the V8 TD's?

deesun · 18-12-2008, 11:38 PM

But because it's Holden and in Drive, 99% of people will think its the latest and greatest,coughbullshitcough.

GTpilot · 18-12-2008, 11:58 PM

Quote:

“If you drive it flat-out on full throttle then you probably wouldn’t see any economy improvement,” Mr Harding said.

:

Mr Harding obviously does not know the average HSV buyer very well. From what I see they are either 100% go pedal or 100% stop pedal. This being the case, I can't see many HSV owners saving much $$

One a brighter note,
Can't wait for Tandbag to crash one of these LPG puppies at Winton, I'll be right there toasting some marshmellos

vztrt · 19-12-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAD

Interesting how HSV have changed though, I remember back in the day were trying to discredit Tickford for fitting LPG systems. My how times have changed since that tool left the top job. Next they might even try to hot up a 6cyl heaven forbid.

lol, it'll be touted as the Turbo killer and marginally beat the XT!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

the only reason ford are still going with the mixer setup is because they locked themselves into a supply contract with vialle (or something to that effect).

it may be older technology but it is well sorted and serves the purpose for which its designed. taxi's love it because of the very low service costs.

i have one (bfmk2) and i'm more than happy with it. still ample power for a family wagon and cheap to run.

Also you'd think fleet operators would be happy with the low running costs as well. Also the cars are geared well and they drive fairly well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by whales

I thought GM off loaded Detroit a few years ago

They're owned by Daimler Benz....like Freightliner.

LTDHO · 19-12-2008, 08:06 AM

Hrmm, is this another thing Holden/HSV do and Ford/FPV don't?

If FoMoCo had half a brain, they would have already devoloped an FPV on straight LPG injection. Rid the patrol tank, cat's etc and make a real moster that is realitively cheap to run.

But Noooo!