Launch Technique BF 290 ZF Auto

CAMS290 · 12-04-2006, 08:58 PM

I have been reading with interest about the launch technique used to get the F6 Turbo's down the 1/4 in the high 12's, low 13's and i wondered if any one has had a go with a auto BF GT/GTP ???

I believe the ZF auto normally takes off in 2nd gear, but some people are stalling them up in 2nd, then pulling them manually back to 1st on take off.

JG3282 · 12-04-2006, 10:21 PM

Launch technique doesn't explain an enormous mph (there's a can of worms)... I think the 1.9 sixty foots I was able to get from a 100% stock BF GT 6 speed ZF shows that there is no great skill involved in getting those babies out of the hole in a hurry... Notable is that the quickest stock F6 is actually a tenth slower to sixty foot than the GT, yet is 4-5 mph faster at the other end, yet in general 99% of other F6's run around the same mph as the GT... I wish Professr Julius Sumner Miller was still alive

Quadcams · 12-04-2006, 11:26 PM

Should speak to Rich (hot460) he ran his bog stock 4000k's BF 260 auto tonight at WSID i think he was doing 2.060 60ft best time of 14.001@100mph, air temp was about 20c.

CAMS290 · 12-04-2006, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG3282

Launch technique doesn't explain an enormous mph (there's a can of worms)... I think the 1.9 sixty foots I was able to get from a 100% stock BF GT 6 speed ZF shows that there is no great skill involved in getting those babies out of the hole in a hurry... Notable is that the quickest stock F6 is actually a tenth slower to sixty foot than the GT, yet is 4-5 mph faster at the other end, yet in general 99% of other F6's run around the same mph as the GT... I wish Professr Julius Sumner Miller was still alive

Were you stalling it and then dropping into 1st for the take off ????

JG3282 · 13-04-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAMS290

Were you stalling it and then dropping into 1st for the take off ????

The GT actually did:

1.9 launching in Perf mode (14.0 ET/104 mph),

2.0-2.1 in manual mode (14.2 ET/105 mph),

2.1 in regular D mode(14.2 ET/103 mph)

Best 60 ft's were achieved by launching from idle and easing into the accelrator... When slamming the foot down or stalling the car up it would wheelspin for much of the first 300 ft

When driving a modified F6:

Wheelspinning 2.4 in Perf with a 14.0 ET (107.2 mph),

Wheelspinning 2.3 in manual mode with a 13.7 ET (106.7 mph)

Wheelspinning 2.4 in regular D with a lazy 14.7 ET (107.8 mph)

Car was launched from both idle and stalled up to 2200 in all three modes with no difference in sixty foot times.

Maurice is getting 2.0 sixty's launching from 2300 with the stall in 2 then shift back to 1 launch technique (Something a lot of VL Turbo drivers swear by). The result is 12.9 ET's and a whopping 109 mph. What this shows is that the car is actually having to make huge power in the second half of the track, meaning that the first half of the track is an area that has improvement in it. A 2.0 sixty foot is not that special from these cars, realistically they should be capable of easy 1.9's maybe even 1.8's given the amount of torque, weight carried, tyre diameter and gearing. This is not even factoring in the track temp, humidity, relative altitude etc.

If Maurice's car actually got to sixty foot as hard as it is capable of then 12.7's at less mph should be possible.

Next time you are at a competition meet and get the chance to watch Top Alcohol, stand at half track and watch how the Funny Cars behave compared to the dragsters. The funny car carries more weight and will generally be behind the dragster at half track, but from there the funny car will pull away will generally run up to 10 mph more than the dragster on the same ET. Why is this so? Because the dragster gets out the hole quicker than the funny car and doesn't need big power at the other end of the track to run the same ET.

XA-Coupe · 14-04-2006, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JG3282

The GT actually did:

1.9 launching in Perf mode (14.0 ET/104 mph),

2.0-2.1 in manual mode (14.2 ET/105 mph),

2.1 in regular D mode(14.2 ET/103 mph)

Best 60 ft's were achieved by launching from idle and easing into the accelrator... When slamming the foot down or stalling the car up it would wheelspin for much of the first 300 ft

I'm trying to figure out how you can get a 60 footer of 1.9 and 'only' get 14.0. If a manual BA XR8 can run 13.6 with a 2.0 60 foot I would have thought that it would be a lot deeper into the 13s.. or actually in the 13s.

hot460 · 14-04-2006, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

I'm trying to figure out how you can get a 60 footer of 1.9 and 'only' get 14.0. If a manual BA XR8 can run 13.6 with a 2.0 60 foot I would have thought that it would be a lot deeper into the 13s.. or actually in the 13s.

Me too. my ute did 2.077 60'.
5.951 330'
9.094 660'
77.67 mph
11.771 1000'
14.007 ET
100.86 mph

PhantomXR8 · 15-04-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

I'm trying to figure out how you can get a 60 footer of 1.9 and 'only' get 14.0. If a manual BA XR8 can run 13.6 with a 2.0 60 foot I would have thought that it would be a lot deeper into the 13s.. or actually in the 13s.

If it's a bog stock XR8 manual but the driver is a good racer I can see how this could be.

JG3282 · 15-04-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

I'm trying to figure out how you can get a 60 footer of 1.9 and 'only' get 14.0. If a manual BA XR8 can run 13.6 with a 2.0 60 foot I would have thought that it would be a lot deeper into the 13s.. or actually in the 13s.

That's because the car was not making as much power at the end of the track as it did at the start of the track, which is due to the relative altitude... The air was at 982, temperature 37 degrees, humidity was high. On a freezing cold night at 10.00pm at Calder maybe the situation would be vastly different.

The interesting thing to note here was that the GT was quicker to half track on some runs than both the stock and modified F6, but with lower mph.

BEST 1/2 track Stock GT: 8.92 secs/81.67 mph (ET: 14.00/105)
Done in the heat of the day at Heathcote

BEST 1/2 track Stock F6: 9.08 secs/83.96 mph (ET: 14.04/105)
Done late afternoon at Calder

BEST 1/2 track Modified F6: 8.99 secs/85.73 mph (ET: 13.71/107)
Done early evening at Calder

hot460 · 13-04-2006, 07:50 AM

My BF XR8 takes off in 1st every time. Last nights best 60ft was 2.047 and worst was 2.077 with tires spinning on dunlop sp3000. These cars will easy run 13's straight off the factory floor.
The 6speed really helps get these cars off the line. (easy)

_2:

**Chris** · 13-04-2006, 09:03 AM

i think after they see 270-280 rwkw the launch tech wont mean much - keeping the slicks from turning on the rims will be a greater issue.......

GT 8888 · 13-04-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

i think after they see 270-280 rwkw the launch tech wont mean much - keeping the slicks from turning on the rims will be a greater issue.......

can't wait

hot460 · 14-04-2006, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

i think after they see 270-280 rwkw the launch tech wont mean much - keeping the slicks from turning on the rims will be a greater issue.......

Hmmmmmm That would be a sweet problem too have. :hihi:
Thats my goal one day.

_2:

SpoolMan · 13-04-2006, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hot460

My BF XR8 takes off in 1st every time. Last nights best 60ft was 2.047 and worst was 2.077 with tires spinning on dunlop sp3000. These cars will easy run 13's straight off the factory floor.
The 6speed really helps get these cars off the line. (easy)

_2:

Rich look forward to following the progress, 14.0 is good for a stocker..well done for having a crack, keeps us all informed on what time these cars can really do.
My BA XR8 Ute had all bolt-ons, chip & 4.11's....best 60 I ever got was 2.06, although I think this will change next time my brother takes it out.

hot460 · 14-04-2006, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Rich look forward to following the progress, 14.0 is good for a stocker..well done for having a crack, keeps us all informed on what time these cars can really do.
My BA XR8 Ute had all bolt-ons, chip & 4.11's....best 60 I ever got was 2.06, although I think this will change next time my brother takes it out.

Going to be a interesting winter. Next trip out will hopefully see what one of Chris's (Bluepower) post tunes can do for me. And then have some real fun with the new work ute!

:
I will keep you up to date Spoolman.

SpoolMan · 13-04-2006, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAMS290

I have been reading with interest about the launch technique used to get the F6 Turbo's down the 1/4 in the high 12's, low 13's and i wondered if any one has had a go with a auto BF GT/GTP ???

I believe the ZF auto normally takes off in 2nd gear, but some people are stalling them up in 2nd, then pulling them manually back to 1st on take off.

Hi Cam not sure if your question was edited, was reading something about a MPH & worms.

e
6 SPEED Auto takes off in 1st, what the 2nd gear stall up does is allow him to put more stall on the car to 2300 rpm, in 1st gear you can not stall this high on the RPM.....
This isn't a problem for you as you can run a high stall and your 1.82 - 60 foot you have is pretty good for a 2 ton bus.
Get some weight out of it, and the 60 will drop.

CAMS290 · 13-04-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Hi Cam not sure if your question was edited, was reading something about a MPH & worms.

e
6 SPEED Auto takes off in 1st, what the 2nd gear stall up does is allow him to put more stall on the car to 2300 rpm, in 1st gear you can not stall this high on the RPM.....
This isn't a problem for you as you can run a high stall and your 1.82 - 60 foot you have is pretty good for a 2 ton bus.
Get some weight out of it, and the 60 will drop.

Thank for clearing that up for me Mark, i was thinking why would they take off in 2nd for !!!!
I now understand. I will now go back to my dinosaur 4 speed auto.

:

SpoolMan · 13-04-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CAMS290

Thank for clearing that up for me Mark, i was thinking why would they take off in 2nd for !!!!
I now understand. I will now go back to my dinosaur 4 speed auto.

:

Nothing wrong with your 4 speed auto, seems well built and is taking plenty of punishment. Shifts are ok not to harsh..
D.T.M say there are much better auto to start with than your Holden Auto...

SpoolMan · 13-04-2006, 03:15 PM

Cam in between changing nappies here a couple of articles on the ZF 6 speed auto, I found them both informative reading.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...article&id=223

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=43074

sfr rob · 15-04-2006, 05:10 PM

i am trying to figure out how you are keepin ghte car in 2nd in manual mode, doesnt the gear box shift into first when standing still, no matter how many times you flick the gear shifter down?

JG3282 · 15-04-2006, 08:25 PM

Because in the sh|t air it had to make more power to get down track... on a freezing cold friday night at 10 pm the et would be quicker and mph either the same or less... Calder's friday night air on Heathcote's racing surface would be an interesting one for sure

Also interesting the GT was slower in manual mode by around two tenths consistently

XA-Coupe · 15-04-2006, 08:30 PM

whether the air is good or not doesn't mean jack. It makes the power it makes. If it was a colder night it may have made better mph but that's not what the issue is about.
We all know that MPH is a great indicator of HP. More HP and the same 60 foot would mean a better ET than my XR8. If there were other issues, like gear changes, I would expect the manual car to be the one with the slightly out of whack numbers not the auto.

4Vman · 18-04-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

whether the air is good or not doesn't mean jack. It makes the power it makes. If it was a colder night it may have made better mph but that's not what the issue is about.
We all know that MPH is a great indicator of HP. More HP and the same 60 foot would mean a better ET than my XR8. If there were other issues, like gear changes, I would expect the manual car to be the one with the slightly out of whack numbers not the auto.

Correct, im with you, it doesn't make sence.

JG3282 · 18-04-2006, 09:21 AM

XA-Coupe to say air means nothing in drag racing is like saying that I could go out and win gold at the next olympics in the 100m sprint... Air is one of the most vital factors in making power and to say it isn't shows a lack of knowledge and understanding of the science

I urge you to approach a professional drag racer and tell them that air means nothing when getting a car down a 1/4 mile quickly and then get them to show you what types of factors are recorded by their data loggers worth thousands of dollars...

XA-Coupe · 18-04-2006, 11:34 AM

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how a car with the same 60 foot and higher mph that doesn't have a problem during the run, goes substantially slower. Stop trying to confuse the issue.

JG3282 · 18-04-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

I'm still waiting for you to explain to me how a car with the same 60 foot and higher mph that doesn't have a problem during the run, goes substantially slower. Stop trying to confuse the issue.

The auto was self shifting therefore shifting at lower revs with revs dropping to a lower point between shifts... The car consistently ran between 104 - 105 mph and 14.00 - 14.05 in Perf D mode all day with sixty foot times ranging from 1.97 - 2.05

JG3282 · 18-04-2006, 02:44 PM

Lets put it in simple terms... It is 37 degrees, the air is as thick as a pea soup, humidity is high and you decide to run around the local football oval... How are your lungs going to feel in comparison to running around that same oval in 18 degrees and nice clear air?

XA-Coupe · 18-04-2006, 08:28 PM

Call me dumb but I still don't see the issue addressed.
How can a car that runs the same 60 footer and better mph not be closer in ET?
Post a copies of the time slips.. maybe there will be a clue in them. I am willing to be educated.

4Vman · 19-04-2006, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

Call me dumb but I still don't see the issue addressed.
How can a car that runs the same 60 footer and better mph not be closer in ET?
Post a copies of the time slips.. maybe there will be a clue in them. I am willing to be educated.

The only thing i can think of that could cause a slower ET with excellent 60Ft and good MPH is wheelspin after the 60ft mark, other wise "it just don't add up"!!!

Walkinshaw · 19-04-2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XA-Coupe

Call me dumb but I still don't see the issue addressed.
How can a car that runs the same 60 footer and better mph not be closer in ET?
Post a copies of the time slips.. maybe there will be a clue in them. I am willing to be educated.

Indeed. nailed the 60' decent mph (it is making the power regardless of air temp) and only a 14.0.. Similar car here ran 2.2 60' 101mph and 13.8's