Norway potentially to ban petrol vehicles by 2025

[Franco Cozzo]

Surprise! Click bait!

http://www.independent.co.uk/environ...-a7065616.html

Funny how the article says to ban sale of all fossil fuel based cars, then you read the article and it turns into 'potentially'.

But anyway, lets discuss.

Do you think battery technology will improve and we will see long distances possible from a single charge? Circa 1000km out of a single charge?

I reckon by 2050 we will be cruising around in electric cars.

[Yellow_Festiva]

If we did have to all change to battery powered cars, is there enough of the materials needed to make them?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

If we did have to all change to battery powered cars, is there enough of the materials needed to make them?

Short answer yes. Really the special ingredient lithium is quite prevalent. In terms of the battery, most are around 98% recyclable.

But you probably don't want to recycle them anyway, once they are done in a car just use them as energy storage for houses. Say your 80kwh degrades 40% over 20 years to be only 50kwh then you have a great home storage battery as most houses need around 7-15kwh batteries to be self sufficient off solar. At that point the battery will last a very long time as the charge and discharge rates are much much gentler than cars.

Compare that to petrol, every litre you burn in your car is gone forever - never to be reused. At 110kmh you are burning close to 10kilos of petrol an hour.

[jimt3te50]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Short answer yes. Really the special ingredient lithium is quite prevalent. In terms of the battery, most are around 98% recyclable.

But you probably don't want to recycle them anyway, once they are done in a car just use them as energy storage for houses. Say your 80kwh degrades 40% over 20 years to be only 50kwh then you have a great home storage battery as most houses need around 7-15kwh batteries to be self sufficient off solar. At that point the battery will last a very long time as the charge and discharge rates are much much gentler than cars.

Compare that to petrol, every litre you burn in your car is gone forever - never to be reused. At 110kmh you are burning close to 10kilos of petrol an hour.

Lithium is the next big mineral to kick off mining in WA. There's craploads of it here.

[new2ford]

Of course they will also stop selling oil to improve their green credentials even further. This comment had it right:

Lipstick on a pig. The 5M Norwegians pump nearly 2M barrels of oil a day, all of which will wind up in the atmosphere as CO2. Imagine if every Brit (man, woman, and child) burned 65 liters of oil every single day and then wanted to be patted on the back for being green?

Usual political hypocrisy. Like anti-nuclear Germany and Austria proudly boast that they're nuclear-free - until they run short of green electricity and have to quietly import some good old nuclear-generated electricity from France and Czech Republic.

[ken1939]

Which is similar to the electric cars in the USA, powered by coal and natural gas fired generating plants.

[Crazy Dazz]

Rather hypocritical consider where Norway gets most of its money from.

[Stefan]

The reality is fossil fuel is a limited energy source, it will run out eventually, as it gets close prices will rise by virtue of supply and demand. It only comes from one source...oil.

Electricity on the other hand is sourced in numerous ways and I'm sure as science improves it will eventually be the cleanest form of energy and virtually unlimited. Battery technology will improve, charging technology will improve. It's a no brainer really.

Interesting times...

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Stefan

The reality is fossil fuel is a limited energy source, it will run out eventually, as it gets close prices will rise by virtue of supply and demand. It only comes from one source...oil.

Electricity on the other hand is sourced in numerous ways and I'm sure as science improves it will eventually be the cleanest form of energy and virtually unlimited. Battery technology will improve, charging technology will improve. It's a no brainer really.

Interesting times...

I don't think fossils fuels is anywhere near running out, it is global warming & pollution that is driving the technology for electric vehicles, as for power generation well that remains to be seen how much green renewable energy replaces the fossil fuel type.

[simon varley]

250-350km from a single charge is possible today. I'd say that would already satisfy 95% of users

[CoupeKing]

Norway?..That's like Hannibal Lecter sponsoring a vegetarian movement.

[Feathers]

There is already a large uptake of electric cars over there.
Yes, they make a LOT of money from oil, but the number of Teslas we saw while on the road trip last year was insane.

[foxtrot3]

Hi. the biggest killer of electric cars in places like norway is making a heater work, when you burn fossil fuel in a car there is plenty of "free" heat left over, sit in your electric car with the heater on while your wife does the shopping and you have to push your car home. Cheers MD

[Feathers]

Originally Posted by foxtrot3

Hi. the biggest killer of electric cars in places like norway is making a heater work, when you burn fossil fuel in a car there is plenty of "free" heat left over, sit in your electric car with the heater on while your wife does the shopping and you have to push your car home. Cheers MD

Not if you park in a car park with outlets for the block heaters to be plugged into, as Canada and the Nordic countries have now.

Friends in Finland and Norway have a secondary heater in the cabin, which they can switch on and off by remote or by timer to heat the cabin, as well as the block heaters for cold starts in winter.

[FG50T]

It will be cool when the only petrol powered cars you see are on a club permit.

[ken1939]

I do want to say I am not Anti-EV, its just the prices for performance and longevity. I would say Australia has a leg up in home solar vs the US. Nothing wrong with that. I have finally seen Focus Electrics (used) dropping to under 8K, which at that point, makes it reasonable to mabey attempt. I just did not see 30K for a vehicle that you can only go 80 miles in. My 2005 Focus has over 229,000 miles on it and its paid for itself.

I do enjoy the EV guys that build these dragsters and such, but right now, I rather put the money in the rebuild of my XC Falcon Ute and that super powerful 302C

[Mercury Bullet]

I think battery storage electric cars will go the way of the dodo.

Too heavy and longevity for starters. I think some kind of electronics will be the key such as a super-capacitor.

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

I think battery storage electric cars will go the way of the dodo.

Too heavy and longevity for starters. I think some kind of electronics will be the key such as a super-capacitor.

Ahh, the Flux Capacitor from BTTF!!!

[GO FURTHER]

The one thing many pro-electric car advocates forget that will slow down the uptake of electric cars worldwide is the Arab oil producing nations have the ultimate "slowdown weapon" .... They will lower the price of oil as the threat increases on their livelihood, making electric cars seem less attractive.

[simon varley]

apart from the instantaneous torque aspect of them

[bathurst-racer]

There is more oil under the Blue Mountains than there ever was in Arabia so I think we should extract it and forget about electric cars for another 50 years.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by bathurst-racer

There is more oil under the Blue Mountains than there ever was in Arabia so I think we should extract it and forget about electric cars for another 50 years.

Where is your proof for this claim?

[bathurst-racer]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Where is your proof for this claim?

Ever heard of Commonwealth Oil Refineries ?
It would have been nicer to ask politely than try to infer I don't remember my Grandfather's motor garage and selling COR kerosene from the BP service station during my apprenticeship.
The Australian Government under Robert Menzies sold the mineral rights to British Petroleum
The old refinery is still in the Newnes National Park.
The shale oil there is far more richer than what is found in Alaska or Canada .
If you are after proof do your own digging. I've been to the old refinery and handled the product at point of sale.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by bathurst-racer

Ever heard of Commonwealth Oil Refineries ?
It would have been nicer to ask politely than try to infer I don't remember my Grandfather's motor garage and selling COR kerosene from the BP service station during my apprenticeship.
The Australian Government under Robert Menzies sold the mineral rights to British Petroleum
The old refinery is still in the Newnes National Park.
The shale oil there is far more richer than what is found in Alaska or Canada .
If you are after proof do your own digging. I've been to the old refinery and handled the product at point of sale.

Well let's hope it stays exactly where it is then hey.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by bathurst-racer

Ever heard of Commonwealth Oil Refineries ?
It would have been nicer to ask politely than try to infer I don't remember my Grandfather's motor garage and selling COR kerosene from the BP service station during my apprenticeship.
The Australian Government under Robert Menzies sold the mineral rights to British Petroleum
The old refinery is still in the Newnes National Park.
The shale oil there is far more richer than what is found in Alaska or Canada .
If you are after proof do your own digging. I've been to the old refinery and handled the product at point of sale.

I didn't imply or infer anything with my question, it was neutral and to the point.

Oh and for your information, when you proffer a claim of any sort, the onus isn't on the audience to do the digging, especially with a vague claim like the above.

Now that you have clarified, I can see what you were referring to. For those that are interested, here is a link to the Newnes State Forest remnants of the refinery:

http://www.geomaps.com.au/scripts/newnesoilshale.php

[Pis-ton broke]

i heard an "expert" say the electric cars will fill the gap until hydrogen is sorted out. then there was that guy mr myers (hes dead now, with a murder conspiracy) that claimed to have invented a car that could run on water, with his water separator.
it is interesting to see on youtube how hydrogen is separated from water and people are doing it now with under bonnet conversions, however its not efficient.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Pis-ton broke

i heard an "expert" say the electric cars will fill the gap until hydrogen is sorted out. then there was that guy mr myers (hes dead now, with a murder conspiracy) that claimed to have invented a car that could run on water, with his water separator.
it is interesting to see on youtube how hydrogen is separated from water and people are doing it now with under bonnet conversions, however its not efficient.

Unless a radically different way of extracting hydrogen is found that turns the energy in/energy out equation around, hydrogen won't figure in any future fuel sources for cars.

[FormulaFG]

I don't think there will ever be a need to ban petrol powered cars.

As fossil fuel runs out the price will climb - supply and demand as already stated. This will put it out of the reach of the average person who will switch to alternate sources, however/whatever that may be at the time. As this change happens auto makers will adjust their product to suit consumer buying trends. As less and less people buy petrol powered cars some manufacturers may voluntarily stop producing them.

I don't see that happening by 2025.

[STINKY NINJA]

You also need diesel/petrol to charge those batteries...

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by STINKY NINJA

You also need diesel/petrol to charge those batteries...

There will probably always be a place for petrol and diesel things like equipment and trucks. I suppose the less oil used for fuel the more that can be used to make things like plastic.