How True are Redbook Values

[jason_85]

Hi

I have been spending a while looking at used cars for sale and seeing how close they are to the values redbook put on them and taking into mind any options that have been fitted. In that time i havent seen too many cars within the private sale region or remotely close to what people (Redbook says) would get for a trade.

Just a few questions.....

Have most people who have bought used cars paid in this region?

If they havent then where do these figures come from?

I believe its a buyers used car market at the moment and from what i see people always struggle to sell. Why arent these sale prices anywhere close to these values (if they're correct) because you will only get peanuts from a dealer?

[Polyal]

Great if you are buying, not so good if you are selling.

Redbook only applies (and thats being nice) when the car is completely stock, and has no enthusiast value behind it.

[jason_85]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Redbook only applies (and thats being nice) when the car is completely stock, and has no enthusiast value behind it.

True that but i guess it varies from car to car and what has been done and how much those modifications are actually worth when you go to sell it?

[Falcon_Phill]

Apparently my fairmont is worth $2300. Good ******* luck finding one for that price in its condition.

[TZENU]

Am pretty sure that they have now adjusted their figures according to show a range of what the market is paying for, for specific cars ...

[sfr rob]

red book is a joke, who ever compiles the information needs a good hard slap.

[jason_85]

Originally Posted by sfr rob

red book is a joke, show ever compiles the information needs a good hard slap.

Q. How does RedBook arrive at the vehicle prices it quotes?
A. RedBook's price guides are derived from extensive research which encompasses obtaining details of sales through auction houses and motor dealers all around Australia, from vehicle manufacturers, from monitoring the classified advertising in every major publication in Australia and from actual field research. This vast volume of data is reviewed by RedBook's expert pricing panel and adjustments made. Each month RedBook changes around 30,000 prices in its database of over 50,000 vehicles.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by jason_85

Q. How does RedBook arrive at the vehicle prices it quotes?
A. RedBook's price guides are derived from extensive research which encompasses obtaining details of sales through auction houses and motor dealers all around Australia, from vehicle manufacturers, from monitoring the classified advertising in every major publication in Australia and from actual field research. This vast volume of data is reviewed by RedBook's expert pricing panel and adjustments made. Each month RedBook changes around 30,000 prices in its database of over 50,000 vehicles.

Yep, sounds fair to me.

Realise that they will be capturing observations from government clearance auctions which is obviously going to bring the average down.

[Unco]

it's relatively accurate, IMO when you look at it nationwide. for a more accurate idea of car prices in your state, check out the trading post.

[sfr rob]

still, it is WAY off the mark, I think they should really fine tune it a bit more.

[Falcon_Phill]

XY GTHO Phase III Sedan 4dr Man 4sp 351
Prices based on km 540,000 - 900,000
National average price - private sale* $335,800 - $425,000

Righto.

[jason_85]

Originally Posted by Falcon_Phill

XY GTHO Phase III Sedan 4dr Man 4sp 351
Prices based on km 540,000 - 900,000
National average price - private sale* $335,800 - $425,000

Righto.

Haha

I think there are restricitons on the age of the vehicle when you look at redbook. I think as the car gets older the valueing gets worse..... mainly due to condition varying alot and sales probably go done so they have less information to base there info on?

[MickyB]

I have found that for newer cars it's quite accurate. The older cars get however, the more Redbook loses the plot.

[TZENU]

LOL

How many Phase III's would have covered that much mileage? Out of the 300 i wouldnt think many, if any...

[Nickxb]

I dont trust it, its too inaccurate. Your better off actually looking in the market, ie car sales websites. This will give you a better reflection of the market value of your vehicle.

[james22]

2001 FORD FALCON

AU III XR8 Sedan 4dr Man 5sp 5.0i
Prices based on km 90,000 - 150,000
Trade in price guide* $9,500 - $11,300
National average price - private sale* $12,600 - $15,800
Price when new (RRP) $48,420


*BUZZER* WRONG ANSWER!!!! lol

Paid $19,500 for mine when I picked it up with 117,000km

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by james22

2001 FORD FALCON

AU III XR8 Sedan 4dr Man 5sp 5.0i
Prices based on km 90,000 - 150,000
Trade in price guide* $9,500 - $11,300
National average price - private sale* $12,600 - $15,800
Price when new (RRP) $48,420


*BUZZER* WRONG ANSWER!!!! lol

Paid $19,500 for mine when I picked it up with 117,000km

All i could get for mine in immac cond with all the options was 16K with 80K on the clock....

[XR_Strider_GuY]

Originally Posted by james22

2001 FORD FALCON

AU III XR8 Sedan 4dr Man 5sp 5.0i
Prices based on km 90,000 - 150,000
Trade in price guide* $9,500 - $11,300
National average price - private sale* $12,600 - $15,800
Price when new (RRP) $48,420


*BUZZER* WRONG ANSWER!!!! lol

Paid $19,500 for mine when I picked it up with 117,000km

Remember trade in price is not the dealers selling price. Dealers are out to make profit yes over the years the profit margin has shrunk but fact remains if they sell at the price they take it of a seller wheres the profit.

[Yaw]

Originally Posted by james22

2001 FORD FALCON

AU III XR8 Sedan 4dr Man 5sp 5.0i
Prices based on km 90,000 - 150,000
Trade in price guide* $9,500 - $11,300
National average price - private sale* $12,600 - $15,800
Price when new (RRP) $48,420


*BUZZER* WRONG ANSWER!!!! lol

Paid $19,500 for mine when I picked it up with 117,000km

You also forgot to copy and paste the lower part of the web page that reads:

Please Note:

Prices quoted include standard equipment.
However, allowance should be made for any added optional equipment. Click on "specifications" for details of standard and optional equipment.

* Trade-In Price Guide assumes that the vehicle is in average condition with average kilometres.

* Private Sale Price Guide may be different to a dealer's retail price because the dealer prepares the vehicle more thoroughly, both mechanically and aesthetically, and provides a consumer warranty.

* Recommended Retail Price (RRP): Prices of new units are RRP from the manufacturer and do not include dealer on road costs e.g. Registration, warranty, delivery costs. Charges can differ from state to state.

[billyb35]

Originally Posted by james22

2001 FORD FALCON

AU III XR8 Sedan 4dr Man 5sp 5.0i
Prices based on km 90,000 - 150,000
Trade in price guide* $9,500 - $11,300
National average price - private sale* $12,600 - $15,800
Price when new (RRP) $48,420


*BUZZER* WRONG ANSWER!!!! lol

Paid $19,500 for mine when I picked it up with 117,000km

Or you got done over! :

Their indication values only in any case. Sounds about right for my car:

2004 FORD FALCON

BA XT Sedan 4dr SA 4sp 4.0i
Prices based on km 45,000 - 75,000
Trade in price guide* $10,600 - $12,200
National average price - private sale* $13,300 - $16,100
Price when new (RRP) $34,780

[BENT_8]

Having spent many years working for dealers and buying/selling cars the first mistake people make when buying a car from a dealer is asking what their car is worth.
It is like saying to the dealer, here's my wallet take what you wish.
New cars carry extra expenses which cover delivery etc. and so the RRP on a new car will always be in excess of the true value.
When a dealer gives you money for your car on a new car he can usually absorb some of it through the over inflated hidden extras accosiated with buying the new car.
You will find in most cases one of the first things they ask is 'what are you trading' this gives them the upper hand in terms of what they will quote you.
What this means is that he makes you think you are getting good money for your car but in essence he simply robs peter to pay paul.
I find it best to say, 'no trade mate' then when they give you a price you say 'i have a trade in' and work from there, atleast he cant bump up the purchase price however you will need to barter a good trade in at real dollar figures.
Expecting top dollar for older cars is wasting your time as they dont care how precious your old bomb is to them its just another trade in.

Used cars on the other hand are nearly always traded for around $5k less than they will advertise it for if it is their kind of stock.
This allows for movement in the deal, warranty and pre-delivery servicing.
Again the dealer knows how he can sweeten the deal without hurting his margin.

I have found the best way to approach a trade in value is to not ask 'whats mine worth' but rather 'whats the change over price'
This gives them the opportunity to put a real dollar value on both cars. and not a 'this is my inflated price' and 'heres your red book price'.
If the change over price to get out of yours and into theirs is reasonable then you can work a deal and the real values dont come into it.
Infact if you work on a 'change over price' he can lower his asking price on paper and your trade in price leaving you with the same out of pocket expense but with a much smaller stamp duty fee to pay.
Next time a dealer offers you a red book price ask him to show you the red book price of the car your buying, chances are he wont.

[feebs]

An even better way is to first take your car to a different dealer to get valued.. all dealers within an area will take it to the same wholesaler to be valued anyway, so when you go back to where the car is you want to buy, you know exactly what the wholesaler is going to pay the dealer, then tell them the x/over price you want, rather than ask them.

[S3SR]

red book is the worst thing ever invented, its really designed for the more populated areas, and bigger cities, come to country or regional and the prices hurt everyone but the buyer

* should stand for, "we dont actually care but these prices should last a few years so we only have to update the site once"

redbook....the only book that ever made me angry, and i havent read it

[jason_85]

Originally Posted by S3SR

red book is the worst thing ever invented, its really designed for the more populated areas, and bigger cities, come to country or regional and the prices hurt everyone but the buyer

* should stand for, "we dont actually care but these prices should last a few years so we only have to update the site once"

redbook....the only book that ever made me angry, and i havent read it

I think as a buyer though prices can't inflate that much for say townsville!!! Sellers can't put the price up too much..... it isnt that much of a mission to go to brissy to buy a car especially with cheap flight especially if you can save a considerable amount of money

At the end of the day cars arent an investment (99%) and everyone buys one knowing they will depreciate... why????... cause there is past history on this!

[S3SR]

Originally Posted by jason_85

At the end of the day cars arent an investment (99%) and everyone buys one knowing they will depreciate... why????... cause there is past history on this!

yeah fair call, but to depreciate to almost having to pay someone to take the car is stupid, and i partly blame red book for it, then fuel and so on

20k down to almost 7 in not even 2 years WTF... i researched cars looked everywhere, looked at red book prices and that was a good buy for me then, but that much come on

[Smoke Pursuit]

Redbook is very close to the money providing the car is in fair conidtion, falls within the km average and represents what that particular model would have from new (that means no expensive wheels / accessories).

S3SR i assume your saying you paid 20 grand in 2005 for your SR??

You could have bought a BA Futura for less at the time, the realistic value of an AUIII SR in 2005 would have been around 14 grand, not 20...

[Ford_V8]

Remember that something's only worth what someone will pay for it. Seems to be alot of " This is a great price for something like this so ****** off if you think otherwise " around the for sale section. It's these same cars that are still sitting there 6 months later without any interest. I think the redbook price anger is just sellers coming to the harsh realisation that their car is worth thousands less than they hoped. Most buyers would use the redbook evaluation as a guide anyway so chances are if your car is higher than the range there they won't be interested unless its got something special to show for itself.

[Blue Oval Mopar Man]

Out of curiousity , and actually thinking about buying a brand new BA III XR 8 Ute , about 2years ago, I asked for a price on my trade in 5.8 ltr , Tremec 5 speed , Disk 9in , air,steer, simmons, immaculate paint , tinted , way too much more to list 7 / 79 XD Spac Sedan . Walked out insulted and in no way accepting their explaination ! I could get a fair condition Xf GL sedan , fix it up a little and get the same trade-in price ! I could see them rubbing their hands together when they were trying to make the deal ! Stuff the red book , its a tool Auto dealers use to try rip off customers . I could ask more than 10K easily and get it ! They Knew it and even admitted that they would wholesale it to the car yard next door because of its age. Thing is , THEY own the yard next door and I know what price they would have put on it !

[JBomb3000]

Originally Posted by Blue Oval Mopar Man

Out of curiousity , and actually thinking about buying a brand new BA III XR 8 Ute , about 2years ago, I asked for a price on my trade in 5.8 ltr , Tremec 5 speed , Disk 9in , air,steer, simmons, immaculate paint , tinted , way too much more to list 7 / 79 XD Spac Sedan . Walked out insulted and in no way accepting their explaination ! I could get a fair condition Xf GL sedan , fix it up a little and get the same trade-in price ! I could see them rubbing their hands together when they were trying to make the deal ! Stuff the red book , its a tool Auto dealers use to try rip off customers . I could ask more than 10K easily and get it ! They Knew it and even admitted that they would wholesale it to the car yard next door because of its age. Thing is , THEY own the yard next door and I know what price they would have put on it !

Mate what do you expect, dealers have no interest in trading stuff that old, i'm surprised you bothered at all. I think the harsh reality is out cars aren't worth as much as we would like to think they are in general and anything with a blue oval badge is depreciating faster than the titanic heading for the bottom. I think my next car will be a Subaru.

[jason_85]

Originally Posted by Ford_V8

It's these same cars that are still sitting there 6 months later without any interest. I think the redbook price anger is just sellers coming to the harsh realisation that their car is worth thousands less than they hoped. Most buyers would use the redbook evaluation as a guide anyway so chances are if your car is higher than the range there they won't be interested unless its got something special to show for itself.

This is a good point....

I see so many cars for sale that are for sale for a long time (with sellers apparently needing to sell) and the price isnt remotely close to the redbook value.
Would as sellers people get offended of an offer that was based on redbook figures do you think???