Hire Car review - Subaru Outback

Falcon_Crazy · 29-03-2008, 03:40 PM

Was given a Subaru Outback wagon when i was in Darwin last week. It had only 23K on the clock and I put 1,200 on it driving through Kakadu, Litchefield NP and Darwin.

First thing I noticed was the lack of power. I had assumed it was the 6 cylinder, but as soon as i got to m destination, i opened the bonnet and before me was a small 4 pot motor which was struggling to pull this wagon. Ive driven the normal liberty wagon with the 6 and it s a mean little performer.

This thing really struggled and it was me (75Kg) and 20kg of luggage. I can only image how much it would struggle with a family of four and luggage/camping gear on a weekend away.

At one point, I was trying to overtake a 4 dog truck and had to pull back because it was too slow and a corner was approaching!

The brakes were also a sour point - they needed significant pedal power to get them to bite. Again, wold not like to have a full load on board.

Considering this is the current model, i was surprised that there were no steering wheel mounted audio controls and the controls themselves were out of my reach. Im 6ft tall so sit back from the wheel.Changes required me to lean forward.

I was not a fan of the overly light steering and despite its AWD, found it very loose on corners that the RTV would take an 10km/h faster.

Then there are little things that annoyed me.

Had to have the gear leaver in P to take keys from ignition. I alway place autos in neutral, apply handbrake, release footbrake then place it into park. I never like my autos "resting" on park. To move gearlever, you had to have your foot on brake, ignition in the 2nd position.

Likewise, the windows could only be used when the ignition was in the second position with all the lights coming on, the fuel pump turning on etc.

The stereo was not great, the sound quality pretty average. The in glass aerial worse than the RTV - unless the wagon was stopped, it really had trouble picking up channels.

Fuel economy was OK, but it was a 4 and i was doing a lot of hwy miles. At 130km/h it picked up as the 4 pot was spinning around 3000rpm. Round town, with a load, it would be up there for sure.

It had a footrest but unlike so many BA/BF owners, I couldve lived without it. Found it too close to brake pedal.

anything nice to say about it? I like when you turn it on, all the dials light up and spin to their maximum readings - but thats it. Oh, auto up and down drivers window. Its orn would put a Dunnydore to shame and better than what they sed to fit to early Liberties.

The seats were not comfortable, the headlights and highbeam woeful the tiptronic gearchanges were the 'wrong way round' and the tailgate required a bit of effort to close - some Mums may struggle.

I like hiring cars -it really does allow you to test drive them. 5 mins around the block with dealer is no way to fully get to know a car.

Was great to jump back into the RTV and when i drop down a gear, plant my boot, that I6 pulls and pulls and pulls......

vanman_75 · 29-03-2008, 04:47 PM

i had a suburu lib and it went toe to toe with mates ba and great build quality no rattles in them , i wont buy another re the size too small and little towing ability but you would be a first to complain about a subbie under performing , might of been a lemon eh

XR Martin · 29-03-2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanman_75

i had a suburu lib and it went toe to toe with mates ba and great build quality no rattles in them , i wont buy another re the size too small and little towing ability but you would be a first to complain about a subbie under performing , might of been a lemon eh

Apart from the Turbo models and 6cyl Libertys, all Subarus are slugs.
The 2.0L Foresters were shocking

MAGPIE · 29-03-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Apart from the Turbo models and 6cyl Libertys, all Subarus are slugs.
The 2.0L Foresters were shocking

Winner

:

LeadFoot81 · 29-03-2008, 05:04 PM

I had a Subaru Impreza hire car last year, it had:
imprez-ive NVH levels;
one annoying rattle inside the cabin that I could find;
excellent fuel economy;

However:
it felt like it weighed a ton;
had a chronic lack of any sort of power, very dissapointing.

TURBOTAXI · 29-03-2008, 06:10 PM

The first thing I thought when I saw the thread title was gutless. we have these at work and they are comfy, but woeful performers.

JBomb3000 · 29-03-2008, 06:20 PM

I test drove the 3.0L 6 cylinder version of the outback when i bought my territory and found it verry underwhelming. It needed to have the guts reved out of it to get any where as it lacked low down torque. My other big gripe was the 5 speed auto, very unintuative in it's shift points and seemed to hold on to gears at light throttle for to long when you would expect it to upshift. Played around with the iDrive and still couldn't get the auto anything as good as even the 4 speed territory. Loved the looks but didn't like the drive.

MAGPIE · 29-03-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

First thing I noticed was the lack of power. I had assumed it was the 6 cylinder, but as soon as i got to m destination, i opened the bonnet and before me was a small 4 pot motor which was struggling to pull this wagon.

So your comparing a 2.5/4 with your 4.0/6.... what do you expect.

I have a 2.5 legacy (liberty in Oz) a Outback is essentially a jacked up Legacy. I find the power perfectly adequate for what it is (a medium size family 4 cylinder. It easily out accelerates the equivalent model Camry/Mazda6/Mondeo and has more power and torque than all of them so it should.

The Outbacks don't weigh a hell of lot more so performance is comparable (and yes I have driven them)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

This thing really struggled and it was me (75Kg) and 20kg of luggage. I can only image how much it would struggle with a family of four and luggage/camping gear on a weekend away.

Our family of three + dog have no problem going away on trips with our Legacy fully loaded, 2500km round trips are no problem, sure it won't overtake like an XR8 but you adjust your driving style.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

The brakes were also a sour point - they needed significant pedal power to get them to bite. Again, wold not like to have a full load on board.

Have no problem with the brakes in mine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

Considering this is the current model, i was surprised that there were no steering wheel mounted audio controls and the controls themselves were out of my reach. Im 6ft tall so sit back from the wheel.Changes required me to lean forward.

You must have very short arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

I was not a fan of the overly light steering and despite its AWD, found it very loose on corners that the RTV would take an 10km/h faster.

Now this I find laughable, I can take corners faster in my Legacy than I can in my XR8, I'm really starting to think your on drugs :Up_to_som

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

Had to have the gear leaver in P to take keys from ignition. I alway place autos in neutral, apply handbrake, release footbrake then place it into park. I never like my autos "resting" on park. To move gearlever, you had to have your foot on brake, ignition in the 2nd position.

It's a safety feature

Crikey what an awkward routine, whats the problem with removing your keys after putting it in park

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

The stereo was not great, the sound quality pretty average. The in glass aerial worse than the RTV - unless the wagon was stopped, it really had trouble picking up channels.

I'll agree with this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

Fuel economy was OK, but it was a 4 and i was doing a lot of hwy miles. At 130km/h it picked up as the 4 pot was spinning around 3000rpm. Round town, with a load, it would be up there for sure.

What constitutes ok

I can get 7.4/100k on the highway, averaging 9.1 l/100k overall (24k)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

It had a footrest but unlike so many BA/BF owners, I couldve lived without it. Found it too close to brake pedal.

At least it has a footrest, I miss it when in my XR8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

The seats were not comfortable, the headlights and highbeam woeful the tiptronic gearchanges were the 'wrong way round' and the tailgate required a bit of effort to close - some Mums may struggle.

I think you'll find your Falcon has the tiptronic the wrong way round

My sons Mum has no trouble closing closing the tailgate on ours, maybe you need to go to the gym.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

I like hiring cars -it really does allow you to test drive them. 5 mins around the block with dealer is no way to fully get to know a car.

Agree with your theory, but reviews should be carried out with both eyes open and should be unbiased to make them at least slightly interesting.

Maybe I should write a comparison review of my BF XR8 and my MY06 Legacy, only problem is, take away the power/sound of the XR8 and there is no comparison, love them both for different reasons.

Falcon_Crazy · 29-03-2008, 09:06 PM

Magpie:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

So your comparing a 2.5/4 with your 4.0/6.... what do you expect.

I have a 2.5 legacy (liberty in Oz) a Outback is essentially a jacked up Legacy. I find the power perfectly adequate for what it is (a medium size family 4 cylinder. It easily out accelerates the equivalent model Camry/Mazda6/Mondeo and has more power and torque than all of them so it should.

The Outbacks don't weigh a hell of lot more so performance is comparable (and yes I have driven them)

No I am describing what I drove and wat i have driven..my opinion. perhaps we have driven different models..doubt it though

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
This thing really struggled and it was me (75Kg) and 20kg of luggage. I can only image how much it would struggle with a family of four and luggage/camping gear on a weekend away.

Our family of three + dog have no problem going away on trips with our Legacy fully loaded, 2500km round trips are no problem, sure it won't overtake like an XR8 but you adjust your driving style.

I don't drive an XR8 - I drive an RTV and its me and my dog normally. Mate if i loaded 400KG i known it would make a difference. Just as when i load 500Kg of gear into my RTV when i go on 5000Km trips in Oz - The RTV is slower under brakes and acceleration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
The brakes were also a sour point - they needed significant pedal power to get them to bite. Again, wold not like to have a full load on board.

Have no problem with the brakes in mine

Sweet - Well they were very poor in this wagon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
Considering this is the current model, i was surprised that there were no steering wheel mounted audio controls and the controls themselves were out of my reach. Im 6ft tall so sit back from the wheel.Changes required me to lean forward.

You must have very short arms

Stupid comment mate - Do you want to measure?? This is 2008 (ok model is 2007). Even my AU had steering mounted controls. As someone who drive 40,000Km plus per year, its a feature one wants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
I was not a fan of the overly light steering and despite its AWD, found it very loose on corners that the RTV would take an 10km/h faster.

Now this I find laughable, I can take corners faster in my Legacy than I can in my XR8, I'm really starting to think your on drugs

Mate no drugs - reality. Again, I don't drive an XR8 - i can only comment on what i was driving and what i know mt RTV would do. My mates Suby wagon 6 was a lot more surefotted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
Had to have the gear leaver in P to take keys from ignition. I alway place autos in neutral, apply handbrake, release footbrake then place it into park. I never like my autos "resting" on park. To move gearlever, you had to have your foot on brake, ignition in the 2nd position.

It's a safety feature

Crikey what an awkward routine, whats the problem with removing your keys after putting it in park

Safety - s*%ts me in a Focus, s&*ts me in a Suby. Safety my a%rse. How is window operation a safety feature?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
The stereo was not great, the sound quality pretty average. The in glass aerial worse than the RTV - unless the wagon was stopped, it really had trouble picking up channels.

I'll agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
Fuel economy was OK, but it was a 4 and i was doing a lot of hwy miles. At 130km/h it picked up as the 4 pot was spinning around 3000rpm. Round town, with a load, it would be up there for sure.

What constitutes ok

I can get 7.4/100k on the highway, averaging 9.1 l/100k overall (24k)

Would like to see figures in same situation with family and gear on board. Otherwise it was what i expected

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
It had a footrest but unlike so many BA/BF owners, I couldve lived without it. Found it too close to brake pedal.

At least it has a footrest, I miss it when in my XR8

Mate my BA has a footrest and works for me. Most BA owners disagree but oh well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
The seats were not comfortable, the headlights and highbeam woeful the tiptronic gearchanges were the 'wrong way round' and the tailgate required a bit of effort to close - some Mums may struggle.

I think you'll find your Falcon has the tiptronic the wrong way round

My sons Mum has no trouble closing closing the tailgate on ours, maybe you need to go to the gym.

I have a manual -I dont need to go to gym mate, but thanks for advice. You feelthe need for an arm wrestle too? compared to other tailgates, the amount of effort require to close it, supplementary devices to assist in closure are lacking. A stra like the olvo would be better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy
I like hiring cars -it really does allow you to test drive them. 5 mins around the block with dealer is no way to fully get to know a car.

Agree with your theory, but reviews should be carried out with both eyes open and should be unbiased to make them at least slightly interesting.

Maybe I should write a comparison review of my BF XR8 and my MY06 Legacy, only problem is, take away the power/sound of the XR8 and there is no comparison, love them both for different reasons.

Mate - go for it - with the exception of my comment about the pulling power of the I6, this was a review of a Wagon. A wagon it appear you own.

Next week i will be hiring another car for 1,000km...it could be an Aurion, could be a Rav4, could be a Getz...

__________________

BF XR8 - SILHOUETTE - LUXURY PACK - ZF 6HP26 - 18" ALLOYS - CAI - K&N FILTER - TINT - REVERSE SENSORS - STRIPE & STICKER FREE

MAGPIE · 29-03-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

How is window operation a safety feature?

Having the transmission lock in park is a safety feature.

XR Martin · 29-03-2008, 09:52 PM

Performance (from Wheels Mag)

No times listed for the Subaru Outback 2.5 Auto, but the Forester has the same engine and similar weight so ill use that.

0-100 in 10.6 and 0-400m in 17.6

:

Camry Auto
0-100 in 10.3 and 0-400m in 17.3

Mazda 6 Auto
0-100 in 9.8 and 0-400m in 17.1

Ford Mondeo Auto
0-100 in 10.5

Accord Euro Auto
0-100 in 9.2 and 0-400m in 16.6

Hyundai Sonata Auto
0-100 in 10.2 and 0-400m in 17.2

So what exactly is the Liberty 2.5 Auto 'easily' out accelerating?

MAGPIE · 30-03-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Performance (from Wheels Mag)

No times listed for the Subaru Outback 2.5 Auto, but the Forester has the same engine and similar weight so ill use that.

: Are you for real

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

0-100 in 10.6 and 0-400m in 17.6

:

Camry Auto
0-100 in 10.3 and 0-400m in 17.3

Mazda 6 Auto
0-100 in 9.8 and 0-400m in 17.1

Ford Mondeo Auto
0-100 in 10.5

Accord Euro Auto
0-100 in 9.2 and 0-400m in 16.6

Hyundai Sonata Auto
0-100 in 10.2 and 0-400m in 17.2

So what exactly is the Liberty 2.5 Auto 'easily' out accelerating?

Shall I compare some similar vehicles, so at least it's fair.

Liberty 2.5
0-100 in 8.33

Mondeo 2.3
0-100 in 9.96 (a win easily)

Camry 2.4 Sportivo
0-100 in 9.95 (a win easily)

Mazda 6 2.3
0-100 in 8.44 (a win)

Vectra 2.2
0-100 in 9.41 (a win easily)

Stats from Autocar Magazine

I rest my case

:

private9 · 29-03-2008, 09:58 PM

You missed a very important (if not the most important) point in your rental review.... How did you get the POS to rip skids?!

Smoke Pursuit · 29-03-2008, 10:04 PM

Yeh ive driven one of these things a while ago (one of my mates has one). He hates it more then me i think, would own a territory but now hes got it hes stuck with it... They are a dangerious car to drive in the country, no overtaking power what so ever... Sorry but i rate 4 pot subarus (doesnt matter if its a liberty or an outback) a 2 out of 10... Would rather a Ford Focus!

Mongoose · 29-03-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Sorry but i rate 4 pot subarus a 2 out of 10...

Now, i know its not quite the same car, but have you ever driven a WRX STi?

hanky · 29-03-2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Yeh ive driven one of these things a while ago (one of my mates has one). He hates it more then me i think, would own a territory but now hes got it hes stuck with it... They are a dangerious car to drive in the country, no overtaking power what so ever... Sorry but i rate 4 pot subarus (doesnt matter if its a liberty or an outback) a 2 out of 10... Would rather a Ford Focus!

Purchased a brand new Forester in 2004 with the 2.5 manual as our family car (Didn't test drive the auto). 60,000klms later and not one complaint. Dangerous to drive in the country? Surely you jest. I have a property about 30 minutes out of Bathurst which we frequent with the kids and all their baggage, and somehow I've kept my family out of danger. Have driven to QLD and back no problems, and even taken the wife, two kids, luggage and towed a trailer with my Kawasaki quad to the Hunter Valley. The Territory may have more power and may suit you but that don't make the subaru 4 pot a "2 out of 10..."
As far as the handling, come for a drive with me through the Blue Mountains!

private9 · 29-03-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Yeh ive driven one of these things a while ago (one of my mates has one). He hates it more then me i think, would own a territory but now hes got it hes stuck with it... They are a dangerious car to drive in the country, no overtaking power what so ever... Sorry but i rate 4 pot subarus (doesnt matter if its a liberty or an outback) a 2 out of 10... Would rather a Ford Focus!

My brother's got a Forester 2.0 in a manual, and it is without a doubt the slowest manual car I've ever driven.

Squalo · 30-03-2008, 12:36 AM

I think it's a pretty fair review in context.

Subaru brakes are one of their bugbears, the rotors often need machining at 75k. A quick fix for better bite is to go for upspec pads from the Subie catalog.

3.0R gets steering wheel mounted stereo controls, and the stereo quality is great. Far better than the TX Territory (which gets a stereo comparable with the 2.5 Outbacks).

Having to turn the key to 'on' to open or close windows is a definite PITA but yep auto up/down is good. And I agree that the horn is great compared to Falcadores.

Seats uncomfortable - check. Headlights shocking - check. But I think the manual tiptronic shift is set up the 'right way', I struggle with the Territory's box. Just doesn't feel natural to push away for a downshift. I do agree that the shift points and general tune of the box is pretty poor, it's not a car to go for gaps in traffic in - by the time the box has realised what's going on and dropped a gear or two, the gap is gone... mine is the 5-speed auto, and the 4-speed autos in both my Territory and VT Berlina leave it for dead for response. It's very smooth though.

Drive a 3.0R Outback if you can, you'll enjoy it. Especially when you get it on a wet twisty road and keep it between 5k-6.5k (redline is 7k), it's a rocket

It understeers like a b!atch but once you're used to that it's great.

InTrail · 01-04-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squalo

But I think the manual tiptronic shift is set up the 'right way', I struggle with the Territory's box. Just doesn't feel natural to push away for a downshift.

Given that you ride a VFR750, I would've thought the Territory's shift pattern would have come naturally; or have you reversed the pattern on the Honda?

Matty4 · 30-03-2008, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

... Sorry but i rate 4 pot subarus (doesnt matter if its a liberty or an outback) a 2 out of 10... Would rather a Ford Focus!

You can try my 4 pot Suby if you like, guarantee it's a better drive than a Focus (a couple of hairdryers helps spice things up in it though

)

The switch on top of the steering column is for parkers and taillights. All lighting switches off once ignition is off, so for safety if you need to leave your car parked you can still have parkers, taillights on and not leave keys in the ignition. I guess this is a European thing that has been kept for markets the cars are sold in.

XDV800 · 30-03-2008, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin
Apart from the Turbo models and 6cyl Libertys, all Subarus are slugs.
The 2.0L Foresters were shocking

Absolutely spot on.

Having been a Subaru tech for a couple of years i can safely agree with most comments.
However...
It was the 2.5 4 cyl, which has 121 kw and just 226nm, not exactly a spritely 1356 kg vehicle, whaddya expect?
These things are exceptionally grippy in most instances ESPECIALLY when conditions are damp or worse, great steerer, with a dose of understeer mind you.

Quote:

Had to have the gear leaver in P to take keys from ignition. I alway place autos in neutral, apply handbrake, release footbrake then place it into park. I never like my autos "resting" on park. To move gearlever, you had to have your foot on brake, ignition in the 2nd position

???
What is the difference between what you have stated, and; placing lever into park, applying handbrake, then releasing footbrake? Bizarre.
This was never a problem for owners of these cars, that would complain about things like the auto holding gears in sports mode. It's a good feature. I'd be buggered if i'd trust a BA handbrake to keep the vehicle still in neutral!

Higher spec model get the steering wheel controls unfortunately.

The fuel pump will NOT continue to "turn" if the ignition is left on. Most vehicles require the key to be in the position to operate the P/windows, falcons an exception.

Otherwise i agree with most of your comments, good review.

AWD subies have a big turning circle, bit of thirst, are generally gutless, and that damned park light switch on the steering column shroud, WHAT THE HELL IS ITS POINT???
But they're a dmn good car if your prepared to fork out the premium for one.

MITCHAY · 30-03-2008, 02:28 AM

LOL since when is an Outback meant to be sports car anyway?

:

Subaru make reliable, well built cars. They are a NA 4 pot AWD. It's not going to be a powerhouse you know

:

My MY03 WRX is another story :P

BadMac · 30-03-2008, 09:41 AM

I have a 2.0l Forrestor (with a hairdryer that makes a huge difference), its not a performance car, its a 5 star safe small round town shopping trolly for my wife that I use occasionally.

Heres a real story for you. I develop property for occasionally large cheques to top up my day job salary (I prefer to think of my day job as my risk mitigation strategy). Last year, I agreed to meet a friend to look at a piece of land. It was raining and I was in the Forestor. He had a Terry Ghia (now a Q7). I arrived first (he's the kind who will be late to his own funeral). While I waited I thought I'd take a look around the land (80002m). I got out and it was a swamp and I only had good shoes on, so I climbed back in and drove around. Half way round, he turned up and decided to follow me in. He got maybe 50m and was stuck. I drove back round to him and in the end towed him back to the road.

Point of the story. Yeah the subbies may not be the best performance car, or the most luxuary, or the most frugal, or the best 4WD, but they are the best all round (Except and Audi!!) and for a safe family car that can tow the trailer to the bach and up the metal/clay driveway, you have to spend a lot more money to get even close.

kaldek · 30-03-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon_Crazy

I was not a fan of the overly light steering and despite its AWD, found it very loose on corners that the RTV would take an 10km/haster.

Couldn't agree with you more. Prior to my BF XR6T I owned a Forester 2.5 auto and it was a slug that felt very nervous in corners. It was also a bag of spanners compared to the Falcon, with much greater road and wind noise.

LUXO_8 · 30-03-2008, 05:15 PM

i cant wait to buy my outback.....few weeks hopefully.....
i realise they arent a performer but i have my fairlane to go fast in

YOOT · 30-03-2008, 09:40 PM

Mt Forester
0-100kmh 6.0sec
0-400m 14.0sec

Has more grip that the XR6 Turbo ute I had

Weighs 400kgs less.

Build quality and NVH in another league than the Ford.

Faster than the T

Resale Higher than the T

Cost the same to buy and came with more advanced features (Like HID)

Steering Wheel mounted Radio and Cruise

I know its a different model, but its a sensation car. You had a well used rental in the NT, ofcourse it will be shiit.

Your RTV is a dog compared to most subarus, if that impresses you then you have no idea what quality is LOL!

stevz · 30-03-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOOT

Your RTV is a dog compared to most subarus, if that impresses you then you have no idea what quality is LOL!

^^What he said.

Tobey · 31-03-2008, 10:00 AM

Keep in mind you took the auto for a drive, the auto is outdated been in the same form since '01, however in the manual guise, it is a completely different car...

You also took the base model...

MAGPIE · 31-03-2008, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YOOT

Your RTV is a dog compared to most subarus, if that impresses you then you have no idea what quality is LOL!

Yep that sums it up nicely

SSVPom · 31-03-2008, 08:45 PM

Wow ! Love this thread, and feel I may be able to contribute something valid as I own 2007 2.0R auto Liberty and a 2000 AU2 VCT 4.0 Ghia !!

Ok, all comments regarding lack of guts, poor stereo, no wheel mounted audio controls are all true. I agree.

However the Liberty is a class down in size compared to a Falcon, expecially the 'base' models like mine. Put it this way, I was shopping round for a Golf/SP23/Focus Zetec, and found I could get a 4x4 Liberty with heaps more class, Satnav, all for less cash. I had to go for a 4 cylinder and found the appeal of the Suby hard to resist especially as it looks like a much more expensive car than it really is.

Managed to pick mine up for 34k driveaway, and it will be worth 64 % of this privately in 3 years time when I come to trade it in.

My saving grace is that at the weekends I get to drive the Ford and appreciate the guts, premium sound and of course those pesky 'wheel mounted audio controls'