Ford’s Mulally Says U.S. Lags Asian Electric-Car Battery Makers

barbarian · 05-03-2009, 10:44 PM

By Alan Ohnsman

March 5 (Bloomberg) -- Ford Motor Co.’s chief executive officer said the U.S. has “abdicated” an emerging market for advanced batteries needed for electric cars to Asia’s biggest economies and should spur a domestic industry in the technology.

“Electric cars are going to be part of our future,” Alan Mulally said yesterday in Santa Barbara, California, at a conference sponsored by the Wall Street Journal. “It’s really being led by Japan, Korea and China.”

Autos running solely on lithium-ion batteries, along with new types of hybrid-electric models, more-efficient gasoline engines and eventually hydrogen-powered cars are needed to cut U.S. reliance on imported oil, Mulally said. Ford, the second- largest U.S. automaker, plans to bring out a battery-powered model next year.

Panasonic EV Energy Co., a Toyota Motor Corp. subsidiary, is the largest maker of hybrid batteries and this year will open a large-scale assembly line to make lithium-ion packs. Japan’s NEC Corp. and GS Yuasa Corp. are designing advanced batteries for Nissan Motor Co. and Honda Motor Co. models. BYD Co., a Chinese carmaker backed by billionaire investor Warren Buffett, plans to sell plug-in hybrids to the U.S. in 2011 using its own lithium-ion batteries.

“We’re going to get off Mideast oil and get on Chinese batteries,” billionaire hedge-fund manager T. Boone Pickens said to Mulally, during a question and answer portion of the conference. “How does that make us energy independent?”

General Motors Corp. tapped South Korea’s LG Chem Ltd. to supply lithium-ion packs for its Volt plug-in hybrid. Ford has said Johnson Controls-Saft, a joint venture between U.S.-based Johnson Controls Inc. and France’s Saft Groupe S.A., initially will make lithium cells for a Ford plug-in in Nersac, France, before shifting production to the U.S.

To contact the reporter on this story: Alan Ohnsman in Los Angeles at aohnsman@bloomberg.net

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...transportation

AUIIForte · 06-03-2009, 08:24 AM

I know the electric way is a good step forward in moving away from gas. But how long would these batteries last? You would have to keep buying new batteries for you car because they do run out, and pretty quickly. They're also pretty dangerous, especially for Australian conditions where it gets extremely hot during the summer, and these batteries are known to go 'bang' in the heat.

greenfoam · 06-03-2009, 08:42 AM

I think Hyundai are bringing out a car that runs on the infamous Li-Po batterys next year. Those can reallllly go boom but they also can also pack some serious go fast. The motor technoligy to surpase petrol performance is allready there, it's just the batterys that are letting the whole show down at the minute

JMO · 06-03-2009, 10:12 AM

I'm no hippy, but I would have thought that mining for the materials needed to build the batteries would be bad for the environment. Does anyone know if in the long run, mining for/manufacturing batteries is just as bad as drilling for oil and driving petrol vehicles?

I seem to remember hearing that the Prius is actually worse for the environment because of the battery manufacturing. I thought the 'in thing' right now was to be environmentally conscious?

AUIIForte · 06-03-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMO

I'm no hippy, but I would have thought that mining for the materials needed to build the batteries would be bad for the environment. Does anyone know if in the long run, mining for/manufacturing batteries is just as bad as drilling for oil and driving petrol vehicles?

I seem to remember hearing that the Prius is actually worse for the environment because of the battery manufacturing. I thought the 'in thing' right now was to be environmentally conscious?

You're exactly right. They don't tell you the amount of damage creating these batteries do. I heard from a source that one of those sites on which they produce these batteries, no life is ever going to grow there again, its been completely destroyed/poisoned.

And the problem is, if you are thinking of keeping one of these electric cars for more then 5 years, you're going to need to replace the whole battery, which will in turn bring up more demand on them, destroying even more land. They loose there energy, even if they are not being used.

madmelon · 06-03-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMO

I'm no hippy, but I would have thought that mining for the materials needed to build the batteries would be bad for the environment. Does anyone know if in the long run, mining for/manufacturing batteries is just as bad as drilling for oil and driving petrol vehicles?

I seem to remember hearing that the Prius is actually worse for the environment because of the battery manufacturing. I thought the 'in thing' right now was to be environmentally conscious?

Yeh you're on the money with that. The mining in Canada is irreparably damaging vast areas of forest etc. Stuff that's hundreds of years old and would take hundreds of years to regrow, if possible in the state they leave the area.

Bossxr8 · 07-03-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMO

I'm no hippy, but I would have thought that mining for the materials needed to build the batteries would be bad for the environment. Does anyone know if in the long run, mining for/manufacturing batteries is just as bad as drilling for oil and driving petrol vehicles?

I seem to remember hearing that the Prius is actually worse for the environment because of the battery manufacturing. I thought the 'in thing' right now was to be environmentally conscious?

And hence the great myth about Hybrids being environmentally friendly. Prius owners are of course in denial about this. They live in a state of self delusion and importance because they are saving the environment.

:

SSbaby · 06-03-2009, 11:21 AM

Wasn't there a report about GM sharing the Volt technology with Ford? The plan is to cut the overall cost of battery propulsion by amortizing it across bigger volumes.

phillyc · 06-03-2009, 03:51 PM

This whole batteries catching on fire is over rated.

A bit of background. I'm a certified electrical engineer (power systems) with a trade background. I've played around with Radio Control electric cars for over 20 years.

Back to the fire bit. It depends on the type of batteries used. All batteries have different characteristics and how they handle different environments and loadings etc.

An important characteristic is whether or not the battery as a NTC or PTC.
NTC is Negative Temperature Co-efficient.
PTC is Positive Temperature Co-efficient.

A battery can only deliver x amount of Amperes (Amps) and this is limited by internal resistance and the circuit resistance.

A PTC battery increases internal resistance as it heats up. Thereby lowering the ability to put out current in the event of a short circuit. This is safe.

An NTC battery decreases internal resistance as it heats up. Thereby enhancing the ability to put out current in the event of a short circuit. This is less safe.

To make a battery 'unit' for a car, you may have hundreds / thousands of individual cells, which are grouped together in small packs.

Normally a BMS or Battery Management System will detect that there is a problem with individual packs.

Electric cars with range extenders (ie Petrol/diesel motor generator set) is the future of the car.

PS If you have ever witnessed brushless RC (radio controlled) cars or airplanes and see them whipping nitro methanol cars you will understand that this technology only needs to be 'scaled up' and you won't be dreading the performance or the near zero maintenance required... Type in Killacycle on you-tube. 7.8s qtr mile @ 170mph!