Any reason why Falcon can't go to the UK?

[Road_Warrior]

As per the thread title, is there any particular reason why the Falcon is unsuitable for export to the UK?

Considering the UK is a RHD country and the Falcon is RHD (well, duh) I would have thought it would have been a gimme. Perhaps there is an emissions issue with the I6 but can this be overcome? It certainly wouldnt be because of crash safety now that the petrol sedan models are 5 star rated by ANCAP (who base their testing on EuroNCAP).

Seeing a topic on Drivel (or could have been GoAuto) about Holden possibly looking at export opportunities to Europe for the Commodore had me wondering about this. Sure England (especially in London) is small car country, but you can't tell me that they wouldnt sell any of the premium models like the G6ET.

A couple of thousand exports per month of G6E's and G6ET's to ol' Blighty would go down well at Broady I would have thought...?

[4Vman]

The UK is the home of the small 4cyl buzz box.... to them a "musclecar" is a fwd 4cyl turbo i doubt a big thirsty RWD sedan would be received all that well, especially when an entry level 5 or E series would probably be cheaper...
Export is NOT always the best way forward or the solution, just ask holden....

[mcnamg]

Cars in the UK pay a smog tax based on CO2 emissions so the Falcon would likely be pretty pricey and would have to compete directly with the Euro's

[SB076]

Originally Posted by mcnamg

Cars in the UK pay a smog tax based on CO2 emissions so the Falcon would likely be pretty pricey and would have to compete directly with the Euro's

Plus isnt there another tax (or rego) that is based on engine size? Think that would also make our cars way too expensive

[banarcus]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The UK is the home of the small 4cyl buzz box.... to them a "musclecar" is a fwd 4cyl turbo i doubt a big thirsty RWD sedan would be received all that well, especially when an entry level 5 or E series would probably be cheaper...
Export is NOT always the best way forward or the solution, just ask holden....

Having lived there for 2 years, I totally agree with 4Vman. If it is diesel or a 4cyl, then happy days.

[vztrt]

Does anyone know how Holden went with their exports over there??

[irlewy86]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Does anyone know how Holden went with their exports over there??

Nothing worth writing home about. I think they sell about 200-300 VXR8' a year

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Nothing worth writing home about. I think they sell about 200-300 VXR8' a year

So in other words its not worth sending cars over there as it would be a niche market.

You'd think the middle east would be their best place to have a look at the figures.

[gcg2503]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Nothing worth writing home about. I think they sell about 200-300 VXR8' a year

Whilst I was in London for 6 years I hardly saw any VXR8s (or Monaros for that matter) on the road

Personally, I think there are no synergies or profits to be had as there would be little demand for these cars in the UK

Road tax (equivalent to our rego here) is based on CO2 emissions and couple that with fuel prices would make the Falcon export program doomed from the start

[Fairlane]

Everytime Australia tries to export a large RWD car to UK it flunks badly. Im guessing Ford feels burned and doesnt want to go their again.

Now Territory their is a whole new games, that should in the UK now.

[mcnamg]

Originally Posted by Fairlane

Everytime Australia tries to export a large RWD car to UK it flunks badly. Im guessing Ford feels burned and doesnt want to go their again.

Now Territory their is a whole new games, that should in the UK now.

Once the Territory goes diesel and even the Falcon that would make it a winner in the UK as diesel is pretty damn popular over there

[pommy b]

Ford Eurpope ditched there large car...the scorpio.... in the 90's. This was because for the same money, you can get into an entry BMW / Merc and thats exactly what people where doing. Middle managers went from driving big Fords / Vauxhalls etc to 318's, C classes, etc.

The 3 series is now in the top 10 best selling cars in the UK... and I can't see people jumping back to a big ford anytime soon...no matter how good.

Also, as others have mentioned, the co2 emmissions would be a BIG problem as company car owners are taxed based on the co2 output.

[Piotr]

UK has the mondeo.

Its just as roomy if not more than the falcon, better build, better equiped and uses less petrol

Not a hard choice

[RAREV8]

I don't think that the decision has anything to do with the size of the car or its engine. There are and always have been plenty of big cars over there- think Jag sedans...far far more of them there than over here. Most of the larger "cheaper" cars (Ford, Vauxhall, Rover) never did that well, not due to their size but that the German offerings were vastly superior and reasonably affordable with some representing better resale vale.
Having said that, the Ford Scorpio was actually German built but not the same quality as the BMW's etc.

I never considered a large Ford or Vauxhall when I lived there, Had 5 series and Audi' Quattros instead...miles better and very affordable 5 and 6 cyl cars.....my big aussie BA's and BF's were no faster than a 1983 528i that weighed more with a smaller engine!
Contrary to popular opinion, the small roads are quite big enough to accommodate large cars- having been brought up in the country and being one of 4 sons we had to have larger cars (CX Citroen Safaris) and I don't recall wedging them in small roads!
4Vman, don't get "muscle" cars confused with "performance" cars....I am as big a fan of old Aussie V8s as anyone here but if I was after a "performance" car, they'd be close to the bottom of the list!

Pooh pooh the Uks tendancies towards smaller cars but I suggest that you have a look at the trend over here now....the cars here and on UK roads seem awfully similar in size, its no secret that sadly smaller cars are becoming far more prevalent here too now.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by RAREV8

I don't think that the decision has anything to do with the size of the car or its engine. There are and always have been plenty of big cars over there- think Jag sedans...far far more of them there than over here. Most of the larger "cheaper" cars (Ford, Vauxhall, Rover) never did that well, not due to their size but that the German offerings were vastly superior and reasonably affordable with some representing better resale vale.
Having said that, the Ford Scorpio was actually German built but not the same quality as the BMW's etc.

The big Jags, BM's, Merc's etc are bought by up market purchasers, not the average Joe. The larger UK Fords (never as big as a Falcon and never with anything more than 3 litre donks) wern't in competition with these cars.

I never considered a large Ford or Vauxhall when I lived there, Had 5 series and Audi' Quattros instead...miles better and very affordable 5 and 6 cyl cars.....my big aussie BA's and BF's were no faster than a 1983 528i that weighed more with a smaller engine!
Contrary to popular opinion, the small roads are quite big enough to accommodate large cars- having been brought up in the country and being one of 4 sons we had to have larger cars (CX Citroen Safaris) and I don't recall wedging them in small roads!

I'm not sure the small roads were in question, after all they still have large vans/trucks/buses to cater for. I drove my uncles TDi Peugeot 607 (in between Mondeo and Falcon) when last there and it's not a problem. The roads are in general smaller though.

4Vman, don't get "muscle" cars confused with "performance" cars....I am as big a fan of old Aussie V8s as anyone here but if I was after a "performance" car, they'd be close to the bottom of the list!

Pooh pooh the Uks tendancies towards smaller cars but I suggest that you have a look at the trend over here now....the cars here and on UK roads seem awfully similar in size, its no secret that sadly smaller cars are becoming far more prevalent here too now.

Sort of, the trend in Aus has been for large car buyers to graduate to even bigger vehicles - SUV's.

It really is a case of too large in body and engine in the UK.



500SEC, I found quite a few old Aussie Fords in London back in the late 80's, could have had them for scrap metal value. There was an American car wrecker just outside the Blackwall Tunnel (next to where the Millenium Dome now is), XA's, XB's, wagons and sedans but no coupes. Nobody wanted them complete due to size, and no wrecking value.

Found the 83 LTD in an East London dodgy car dealer, it was apparently an ex Aus Embassy car, complete with MKII Granada taillights.

[last fairlane]

Have a look at Ebay UK and type in Falcon
you come up with three AU Utes for sale one of them an E Gas
also check out the build dates 2004 for an AU what the ?
The LTD was exported in the 80s to the UK but it looked to them just like a stretched Granada which looked like an XD

[RAREV8]

Originally Posted by Kieron

The big Jags, BM's, Merc's etc are bought by up market purchasers, not the average Joe. The larger UK Fords (never as big as a Falcon and never with anything more than 3 litre donks) wern't in competition with these cars.

Correct....they weren't in competition with the Mercs, Beemers etc but that was down to brand perception.


I have to disagree with you on pricing and availibility of the bigger Euro marques - mercs, beemers etc are very commonplace indeed- I am not from a wealthy family at all but all of our cars have been nice Euro cars. They are quite often bought by average Joes as they are not as expensive there as they are here.

Sure, they all have high end models that are beyond the financial reach of most of us but their core competency vehicles are designed for the mass market.......Spain, Germany and many other Euro countries use vast fleets of Mercedes as taxis......can't get much more humble than that!
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by a "market purchaser".....whilst big Jags and similar cars were not exactly cheap, there is no denying that there are a hell of a lot of them around London...irrespective of whose driving them.


Its a funny place, I think you said you lived there for a while so you'll know- sure, lots of smaller cars around, not due to preference but oil prices put paid to many larger cars years ago and still does but whatever you do drive, at least you can drive them at a decent speed and around (mostly) reasonably competent drivers. (Sydney driving!!)


3 litres is about the biggest "common" engine size- would buyers consider a 4l six? Don't know...on paper, it may seem to be a little OTT, especially if it did not out perform the smaller Euro 6's. Turbo versions would sell there (G6ET, F6) but only smaller numbers.

Pommy buyers of the "Vauxhall" VXR obviously didn't think it had enough power so now they got Walky to throw a supercharger at it and increase its output by more than 100kW to 419kW leaving it swifter than the 427 available here......shame that Bathurst VXR isn't coming out here....but it will probably be a very small slice of the market.

Franky, my 2 V8's and G6 are a waste of space here....if I take them back to the UK, I might actually be able to enjoy driving them!!

[Road_Warrior]

Ok so we know that the smog taxes or whatever it is, would make the cost prohibitively expensive for anyone over there to buy a Falcon.

So how come the VXR8 gan get the gong to be imported and the Ford can't?

[Dauphin]

More large vehicles may not be a good idea for the UK.

They have 0.24 million square kms of area and 60 milion people living in it.

We have 7.64 million square kms of area and only 20 million people (we may have large areas not largely populated, but still.....).

Imagine the congestion in their city, no wonder they have all those taxes and stuff.

We are a very lucky country!

[GT69]

Originally Posted by Dauphin

More large vehicles may not be a good idea for the UK.

They have 0.24 million square kms of area and 60 milion people living in it.

We have 7.64 million square kms of area and only 20 million people (we may have large areas not largely populated, but still.....).

Imagine the congestion in their city, no wonder they have all those taxes and stuff.

We are a very lucky country!

And they sent us here :

[greenfoam]

The problem is not many Countrys are big enough or have roads crap enough to need a big rwd car. Australia is pretty unique in that way. Any car that has evolved here is going to be the wrong car in most other places. You wont ever sell a car like the Falcon inside Europe or in the UK, especailly not now that a large part of buying a car and living in general is based on how much pollution you make and their desire to not make pollution. Australia is very backwards in these kind of things. The Germans have been using reusable packaging and jars etc in shops for more than a decade, things we still haven't even tried. So it really seems like Australia (and the Mid East) will be the last stand for cars like the Commodore and the Falcon.

Also as everyone said a 2 litre car in the UK is a monster they have mental problems with engines bigger than that

[JPFS1]

The Falcon would attract £400 a year of VED (vehicle excise duty) as it is.

If it was to get below the 225g/km of C02 mark, then it would go down to £210 per year.

Diesel brings no advantage to cost, where as alternative fuels like CNG/LPG etc have a discount of about £15.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

The Falcon would attract £400 a year of VED (vehicle excise duty) as it is.

If it was to get below the 225g/km of C02 mark, then it would go down to £210 per year.

Diesel brings no advantage to cost, where as alternative fuels like CNG/LPG etc have a discount of about £15.

Falcon is at 236/9 withe the 6 speed auto. I guess with euro 4 they should be able to get it lower.
Still the issue with the car being too big for the average punter still stands.

[Road_Warrior]

Are the VXR8's sales THAT low? Why would you bother...

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Are the VXR8's sales THAT low? Why would you bother...

Probably a good indication why Ford wouldnt/hasnt either..

[gcg2503]

Exactly Road warrior exactly!

Not worth the headaches and the bottom line iosnt pumped at to any degree. maybe there is enough profit to buy an extra few slabs for the staff Xmas party

[Kieron]

The G6ET would possibly be the only candidate but it ain't gonna work. A car of this size/luxury/performance level would have to compete with luxo brands and the FORD badge can't mix it in those circles.

The Falcon is simply too big for that market even if it was a diesel, the Mondeo internally is just about as good as the Falcon and even things such as car parks, garages, carports etc in English houses are too small.

Engine wise, the mentality in the UK is a 2 litre engine is big.

I'm from the UK and have numerous discussions with UK family (while i'm over there) about this. When I moved back there, I left a P6 LTD in Aust and wanted a Falcon in the UK, found a 6 pot LTD for about UKP1,000 but even I decided to pass it up, fuel and insurance costs are huge killers.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Kieron

Engine wise, the mentality in the UK is a 2 litre engine is big.

Exactly,

The typical family car over there is a Corolla / Focus or similar, and prob with a 1.6 petrol or diesel as the entry level model, not the larger engines we get.

Our 'small cars' here would still have 2 classes below that over there.

They just like their cars smaller, simple as that. There is no market for a non premium branded large family car.

[500SEC]

I lived in the UK for 10 years. The only Australian Fords I laid eyes upon were an XD station wagon, an XB Falcon coupe and several hearss most of which are Australian Ford LTDs.

Many years ago, Ford Australia exported the XB Fairmont wagon (with the 302ci engine) to the UK and it was road tested by Autocar magazine. It was my dream to locate a second-hander but wasn't able to.

...and there was a Victorian registered Volvo 760 in my street.

Also saw several HSV products wearing Vauxhall badges.

The British wouldn't take to an Australian Falcon because it's too large, wears a Ford badge, no diesel option and wouldn't have the quality of the competing Audis, Beamers and Mercs. Besides, they already have the similarly-sized Mondeo.

[Cookie-XR8]

falcon is too fast for poms