Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG

[mcnews]

TMR Poll Confirms VFACTS Results – Australian Drivers Are Ignoring LPG

VFACTS RESULTS for July, and a poll conducted over the same month by leading Australian Automotive news site, The Motor Report, confirms that measures to get more Australians into LPG vehicles are failing.

In the context of a total national vehicle market down just 10.3 percent in July 2009 compared to July 2008, and down 15.3 percent year-to-date (YTD), sales of new LPG vehicles to private buyers are down 81.8 percent for the month and down 67.2 percent YTD.

“July saw just 14 total sales by private buyers of LPG-dedicated passenger vehicles, struggling to a paltry 118 total sales (private buyers, passenger vehicles) for 2009 YTD. This is an astonishingly poor performance,” The Motor Report Director Tim O’Brien said.

“Fleet sales, though better are similarly poor, managing 549 sales for the month, down 26.6 percent compared to July 2008.

“Given the $2000 Government cash rebate for purchasers of new cars with factory-fitted LPG systems, and given the strong upward movement in the price of petrol, these results are surprising.

“More to the point, they indicate the depth of the image-problem for LPG as an alternative fuel. This is a failure by the industry. Motorists are clearly not motivated by price alone in choosing at which bowser they fill their cars up.

"As a previous Motor Report poll showed (November 2008), many motorists regard LPG as an inferior alternative fuel,” Mr O’Brien said.
In the recent Motor Report poll, when responding to the question: If Unleaded Petrol hits $1.50 a litre, which of the following best describes your likely response,40 percent of poll respondents selected the response that they will make “no change to my car choice nor driving habits”.

Only 12.0 percent responded that they “will convert to LPG (or purchase an LPG vehicle)” if unleaded petrol hits $1.50 a litre, while 31 percent responded that their next car will be a diesel.

“While Australian motorists are now readily embracing diesel as an alternative to petrol, LPG seems to have simply missed the boat.

“For a locally produced fuel that Australia holds in plentiful supply, burns cleaner than petrol, offers such savings at the pump, and with both Ford and Holden offering LPG-dedicated vehicles, the underperformance of this sales segment should be alarming both the industry and the Rudd Government,” Mr O’Brien said.

About The Motor Report Poll:

Conducted over the month of July, with a total of 972 respondents.

If Unleaded Petrol hits $1.50 a litre, which of the following best describes your likely response:

* My next car will be a smaller petrol-engined (or hybrid) fuel miser (17.0%)
* My next car will be a diesel (31.0%)
* I will convert to LPG (or purchase an LPG vehicle) (12.0%)
* I will make no change to my car choice nor driving habits (40.0%)

[pmpdau]

Hmmmm I'm pretty surprised that there is more people willing to go to diesel than convert to LPG, especially with all the developments in the Liquid Injection systems.

Not surprised however that most drivers will stay with petrol. $1.50 really isnt that big of a jump from 1.25-1.37 a litre at the moment

[mcnews]

The general crapness of all the early LPG systems no doubt has killed it a bit. Also that still most conversions see a lot more LPG used than petrol effectively negating a lot of the price advantage. And of course the fact that there are so many incredibly fuel efficient cars on the market. Personally, I think LPG is on the way out.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Personally, I think LPG is on the way out.

ROFL! You will certainly live to eat those words.

I've read this thread from beginning to end and what not one of you realises is that neither petrol NOR diesel (i.e. oil) will be economically available to private motorists (or most users) within 10 years. Our native energy resource for motor vehicles is natural gas of which Australia still has an abundant supply. Not only will you be looking at LPG, you'll probably be looking at CNG. (Forget electric vehicles, they won't have the range for Australian distances)

One of the strongest things Ford Aus has going for it is its possession of gas technology. If Ford Aus can stay alive for a few years its gas engined vehicles will suddenly be in huge demand. Basically everybody is in a state of stupid denial at the moment about the future of oil, so gas isn't going anywhere. The government fiddles with Toyota's petrol-electric cars instead, but petrol is petrol and it won't be around in a while.

“For a locally produced fuel that Australia holds in plentiful supply, burns cleaner than petrol, offers such savings at the pump, and with both Ford and Holden offering LPG-dedicated vehicles, the underperformance of this sales segment should be alarming both the industry and the Rudd Government,” Mr O’Brien said." Key words.

[Mr Hardware]

The public are fools. That's ok, more LPG for me.

The main reason why so many of the public shun LPG are the four main myths:
It'll use twice as much LPG as petrol, meaning no savings
It'll explode
It'll sap my power to a point where i no longer enjoy driving
The payback period is almost forever

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

The public are fools. That's ok, more LPG for me.

The main reason why so many of the public shun LPG are the four main myths:
It'll use twice as much LPG as petrol, meaning no savings
It'll explode
It'll sap my power to a point where i no longer enjoy driving
The payback period is almost forever

5) Most of the people who are constantly babbling on about the glory of LPG are one eyed fixated zealots who make PETA or Sea Shepard activists look broad minded and tolarent.

Often myths are actually truths that are being denied by agenda.....

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by flappist

5) Most of the people who are constantly babbling on about the glory of LPG are one eyed fixated zealots who make PETA or Sea Shepard activists look broad minded and tolarent.

Often myths are actually truths that are being denied by agenda.....

Oh dear, there's a passionate Nexus magazine reading conspiracy theorist in our midst.

Man, they did land on the moon, how many more people does Buzz Aldrin have to punch out to prove it?


Lukeyson

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by Luke Plaizier

Oh dear, there's a passionate Nexus magazine reading conspiracy theorist in our midst.

Man, they did land on the moon, how many more people does Buzz Aldrin have to punch out to prove it?


Lukeyson

if you look closely at the moon mobiles ( cars ) you can see the red LPG sticker on the front and back bumpers, on the appollo 17 mission :

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

The public are fools. That's ok, more LPG for me.

The main reason why so many of the public shun LPG are the four main myths:
It'll use twice as much LPG as petrol, meaning no savings
It'll explode
It'll sap my power to a point where i no longer enjoy driving
The payback period is almost forever

My aversions are the halitosis smell, the dirty big cylinder, increased servicing (?), the perceived hassle of filling up and sheer laziness. If I ran dual fuel is the additional weight noticeable on eonomy?

[Wretched]

isn't there also a government excise going to put on LPG within a year or two?

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by www.ausindustry.gov.au

LPG is currently excise free but it will become subject to excise in the future. No excise will be applied to LPG until 1 July 2011. The full rate of excise to apply to Liquefied Petroleum Gas (LPG) used in vehicles will be 12.5 cents per litre. This rate will apply from 1 July 2015.
The planned excise rates for LPG are as follows:
1 July 2011 2.5 cpl
1 July 2012 5.0 cpl
1 July 2013 7.5 cpl
1 July 2014 10.0 cpl
1 July 2015 12.5 cpl

5char

[sarrge2001]

Hardly see any LPG vehicles here in Darwin (in comparison to other states).

Mind you, with LPG at 95c per litre, i'm not surprised.

[Bluehoon]

Or perhaps the case is poeple want cars that aren't available in LPG?

XR6T on LILPG or Coyote GT on LILPG would see me driving one instantly!

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Or perhaps the case is poeple want cars that aren't available in LPG?

XR6T on LILPG or Coyote GT on LILPG would see me driving one instantly!

Bingo. That's me too.


Lukeyson

[FalconXR6]

The day Ford produce an XR8 and / or XR6T on gas making decent power and torque is the day I will be happy to change to gas as gas is produced here in Australia, it's cheap and it's arguably "greener" than petrol and diesel.

Would never own a diesel and can't understand (actually, yes I can...) why Joe Public is seeing it as the new wonder fuel.

The problem with LPG is that there isn't anything appealing about it's outputs (compared to petrol) and the model variants that use it...in my opinion, of course...

[Chilla]

Originally Posted by Mr Hardware

5char

If the federal government were fair dinkum about converting OZ drivers to lpg then the pump price would be 15cents/litre and they would cough up more than their current offers of $2000 subsidy on new vehicles and $1750 on second hand, to convert. Charity begins at home Mr. Rudd. If we can afford to import lpg for the low prices we currently are, whats stopping us selling it here for a realistic price. Wake up Australia!

[santb]

Originally Posted by Chilla

If the federal government were fair dinkum about converting OZ drivers to lpg then the pump price would be 15cents/litre and they would cough up more than their current offers of $2000 subsidy on new vehicles and $1750 on second hand, to convert. Charity begins at home Mr. Rudd. If we can afford to import lpg for the low prices we currently are, whats stopping us selling it here for a realistic price. Wake up Australia!

yes! except we export a LOT of natural gas, so you would think that it should already be cheap as for us..

[Road_Warrior]

The new generation systems that are available now have put a big dent in the power loss/excess consumption argument. But yes, one of the problems could be the lack of vehicle range from the factory with LPG.

With the new liquid injection system coming out from Ford soon, I wonder if they'll make it available across the Falcon range, or whether it will still be in the fleet hack realms.

[Iggypoppin']

One thing that steered me away from LPG is after riding in a cab, how bad the cabin smelled of gas, the horrible sucky wheezy feeling the motor gave out, and just how cheap the car felt. I know it's not the best example, but I also feel gas is a bit of a cop out. Unless it's LI it's not for me. And it smells.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by NJXR6

One thing that steered me away from LPG is after riding in a cab, how bad the cabin smelled of gas, the horrible sucky wheezy feeling the motor gave out, and just how cheap the car felt. I know it's not the best example, but I also feel gas is a bit of a cop out. Unless it's LI it's not for me. And it smells.

One time i went in a cab that had really noisy wheel bearings. They rumbled and sqawked and made the ride terrible. Put me off wheel bearings for life.

What a stupid comment.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by NJXR6

One thing that steered me away from LPG is after riding in a cab, how bad the cabin smelled of gas, the horrible sucky wheezy feeling the motor gave out, and just how cheap the car felt. I know it's not the best example, but I also feel gas is a bit of a cop out. Unless it's LI it's not for me. And it smells.

Sure it wasn't just the taxi driver that smelled?

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

Sure it wasn't just the taxi driver that smelled?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Joke of the year.

Ok if that LPG was set on fire it would catch flame and evapourate .5 seconds later, once the flame reaches the tank it'll cease due to the flame not being able to get into the tank because a force (pressure) is pushing it backwards. A lot like 2 + magnets.

Whereas petrol will instantly catch, however I don't think it explodes cause it's a spirit, but it can if spilled on the floor or on an almost bone dry tank.

It's like the people who slander about Man evolving from Monkeys, It's like saying the 4WD came directly after the wheel. These stupid misconceptions are what keep holding technology back.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Joke of the year.

Ok if that LPG was set on fire it would catch flame and evapourate .5 seconds later, once the flame reaches the tank it'll cease due to the flame not being able to get into the tank because a force (pressure) is pushing it backwards. A lot like 2 + magnets.

Whereas petrol will instantly catch, however I don't think it explodes cause it's a spirit, but it can if spilled on the floor or on an almost bone dry tank.

It's like the people who slander about Man evolving from Monkeys, It's like saying the 4WD came directly after the wheel. These stupid misconceptions are what keep holding technology back.

Amazing..... ive learnt so much tonight.....

[flappist]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Joke of the year.

Ok if that LPG was set on fire it would catch flame and evapourate .5 seconds later, once the flame reaches the tank it'll cease due to the flame not being able to get into the tank because a force (pressure) is pushing it backwards. A lot like 2 + magnets.

Whereas petrol will instantly catch, however I don't think it explodes cause it's a spirit, but it can if spilled on the floor or on an almost bone dry tank.

It's like the people who slander about Man evolving from Monkeys, It's like saying the 4WD came directly after the wheel. These stupid misconceptions are what keep holding technology back.

Yep, your understanding of chemistry is just an broad and complete as your understanding of almost everything else you write about on here.

[MO]

Originally Posted by ILLaViTaR

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Joke of the year.

Ok if that LPG was set on fire it would catch flame and evapourate .5 seconds later, once the flame reaches the tank it'll cease due to the flame not being able to get into the tank because a force (pressure) is pushing it backwards. A lot like 2 + magnets.

Whereas petrol will instantly catch, however I don't think it explodes cause it's a spirit, but it can if spilled on the floor or on an almost bone dry tank.

It's like the people who slander about Man evolving from Monkeys, It's like saying the 4WD came directly after the wheel. These stupid misconceptions are what keep holding technology back.

It seems you were behind the door when the evolution bus loaded and left.
In future before you open your keyboard do some research into what you saying,
Now I must go and sort out the maintenance of the gene pool chlorinator.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by MO

It seems you were behind the door when the evolution bus loaded and left.
In future before you open your keyboard do some research into what you saying,
Now I must go and sort out the maintenance of the gene pool chlorinator.

Sits here and waits for explanation.

Fire cannot spark without oxygen, Oxygern controls the rate at which fire burns, there's no oxygen in a gas tank, so how does the gas in the tank ignite?

You'd have to rupture the tank or literally sit it in a fire waiting for it to explode.

[ILLaViTaR]

Originally Posted by MO

It seems you were behind the door when the evolution bus loaded and left.
In future before you open your keyboard do some research into what you saying,
Now I must go and sort out the maintenance of the gene pool chlorinator.

DELETE

[Fairlane]

Good, I hope they all ignore LPG. All the more for me, and less waiting for the 1 bowser.

[vztrt]

I remember back in 06 when petrol started rising. LPG cars build increased a fair bit, at one stage to the point where there was a worry that there wouldn't be enough time to get the tank into the vehicle.

I know one problem with the e-gas is the fact that you lose boot space (same issue with after market conversions), if ford can get the spare wheel to a spot where it doesn't cause issues in the boot, coupled with the L.I system then it should have more people considering it.

[PoweredByCNG]

Yet another example of how Australian businesses are behind the eight-ball. Like I have said numerous times, to sway the public towards LPG, the manufacturers have to demonstrate that the overall experience of ownership is no different from owning a petrol-only vehicle (e.g. power, economy, reliability, smoothness, practicality). Currently, the only Australian car that comes remotely close to achieving this is the dual fuel Commodore. Conversion centres also do NOTHING to convince 'Joe Public' - there are too many installers who are incompetent or simply DO NOT CARE about the quality of their services. It is these installers that drag the respected installers down to a low level.

The tables WILL turn when Ford release their Liquid Injection E-gas engine. I'm itching to see the final power/torque/consumption figures, as I understand that they are practically on a par with the figures obtainable from the existing petrol engine.

Regards,
Dave