Numbers Game

flappist · 19-03-2010, 06:53 PM

Speaking with a friend today who owns an early VE GTS about the car and he stated he was a bit annoyed that it has a big 307 on it which in his words "diminishes" the car as only a few months after he bought this "top of the line" model it appears lesser as there was a 317.

I made the comment that none of my FPVs (BA GTP, 2xBA2 F6) had external engine power badges but then realized that many of then do now.

Initially it was optional in the bonnet decal but now in many models it is part of the badging.

This has been standard on HSVs for years and I have often looked at one and worked out what it was and how old or slow by the power badge.

So, BOSS 290 owners, how did you feel when the 302 came out a week later?

FG owners, have you any views on the fact that an almost identical car to yours will be here in a few weeks with 330 where your 315 is?

Historically Ford/FTE/FPV did not do this and if you bought a 200kw XR8 it looked the same to most as the 220 etc.

So, should the engine power be private knowledge only shared by enthusiasts or should the world know that your BF2 GT 290kw is nowhere near as "wonderful" as the BF2 GT bought a month later regardless of what options or mods you have fitted.

chrisfpv · 19-03-2010, 06:56 PM

I don't own any of the above mentioned cars, but a little curious as to whether or not this sort of thing actually annoys people?

I mean I have no idea, but is there a huge difference between the 290 and 302 to make people upset and kind of ****y about it?

flappist · 19-03-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR

I don't own any of the above mentioned cars, but a little curious as to whether or not this sort of thing actually annoys people?

I mean I have no idea, but is there a huge difference between the 290 and 302 to make people upset and kind of ****y about it?

I have another friend who has a GT40 and he literally SPEWS every time he see a BF2 302.

XDV800 · 21-03-2010, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR

I don't own any of the above mentioned cars, but a little curious as to whether or not this sort of thing actually annoys people?

I mean I have no idea, but is there a huge difference between the 290 and 302 to make people upset and kind of ****y about it?

I'm happy with the size of my manhood. I guess some squeezers may never be...

**DJM83** · 19-03-2010, 07:06 PM

It should be private IMO well not private but only people who are enthusiasts would know.
Ive always wondered about HSV's need to place a XXXi on the side and boot, i mean is it a case of mines bigger then yours when it comes to comparing models of the same breed ie VE1 and 2. Or is it a short coming that HSV see's its owners as having? Also id say it would promote depreciation aswell because if i were in the market for a well i dunno VY Clubsport id be looking at the 285kw version over the 260kw etc.

My T2 has the same power rating as an AUII/III XR8 but im not fussed really i see the advantages it has over its lower sibling, that said id own one (XR8) in a heart beat (im not a badge snob)

Franco Cozzo · 19-03-2010, 07:10 PM

I wouldn't mind having the numbers on the car, technology goes forwards with time so its to be expected really.

HSE2 · 19-03-2010, 07:11 PM

It’s more to do with structuring and observing a "suitable period". We all age and get slower, so for me it’s not a big deal.

What I am not too keen about on the Ford side is to sit still for so long then react with 302 and then 315. Development wise those updates should have come a bit sooner for the first change then longer between the next change.

Also not keen on seeing lower models match premium models in one hit. So I didn't like seeing the Xr8 move straight to the GT output in one move (model). So in this case I would not like to see the XR8 in 315 kw territory. I think this sort of action is more detriment than premium models moving on and up.

That being said I am not sure it had the reaction in the market place that could have been expected. Just my personal preference.

**DJM83** · 19-03-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

It’s more to do with structuring and observing a "suitable period". We all age and get slower, so for me it’s not a big deal.

What I am not too keen about on the Ford side is to sit still for so long then react with 302 and then 315. Development wise those updates should have come a bit sooner for the first change then longer between the next change.

Also not keen on seeing lower models match premium models in one hit. So I didn't like seeing the Xr8 move straight to the GT output in one move (model). So in this case I would not like to see the XR8 in 315 kw territory. I think this sort of action is more detriment than premium models moving on and up.

That being said I am not sure it had the reaction in the market place that could have been expected. Just my personal preference.

As i said Ian with the AUII XR8 taking on the same 220 Windsor as the T Series

HSE2 · 19-03-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

As i said Ian with the AUII XR8 taking on the same 220 Windsor as the T Series

Yes and I didn't like that either. It’s something that should be avoided but then again we know how T series customers were treated first up. T1 TS was an 80k car or close to with the engine output the same as a pov pack LS1 for low 40s. They tried to get me to buy one when they first came out. You could see what was coming a mile off.

In those days there was a bit of a panic to get on terms with the general in the power stakes. Today there is no excuse.

FPVF6X201 · 19-03-2010, 07:13 PM

Its mostly a marketing ploy IMO. Holden does 307, Ford does 315, Holden does 317 Ford does whatever wer'e up to these days.

Diqs swinging in the wind, but mines bigger than yours :P

uranium_death · 19-03-2010, 07:16 PM

It's all about having a distinguishable marque.
I personally don't care what people think about what I drive because the reason for owning a car differs between people.
Whatever car I may drive, if I drive it and enjoy it, regardless of the badge, I expect people to be happy for me. If they're not, then that's their problem.

Smoke Pursuit · 19-03-2010, 07:16 PM

Theres an easy way around it.. Just upgrade.. lol.

**Falcon Coupe** · 19-03-2010, 07:16 PM

Cubic capacity badges worked well in the day.

I'm happy my car has GT351 and not 224kW written on the side, would be somewhat dated now.

**DJM83** · 19-03-2010, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Cubic capacity badges worked well in the day.

I'm happy my car has GT351 and not 224kW written on the side, would be somewhat dated now.

How times have changed

Franco Cozzo · 19-03-2010, 07:25 PM

5.4L would be 327 though, and 327 is associated with GM haha.

geckoGT · 19-03-2010, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Damo

5.4L would be 327 though, and 327 is associated with GM haha.

The Boss is 5.408L which converts to 330 cubic inches, no GM association there.

I think it was a mistake of Ford and FPV to get involved in this power badge marketing. Something that HSV have done since the VP range and something I always thought was doing their customers a disservice, no quicker way to obsolete the previous model. Now we see it a little with FPV, to a point where I have had people tell me my SP is not as good as the XR8 now because they have the same motor. Well there is more to owning a FPV than the badge on the boot (or bulge sticker).

To me, it does not really matter, I will buy a new one when I am ready, not because my badge is lower in greatness.

Many of the badges are crap anyway, just what they want to market the car as, not what it really achieves. The best example of this is the FPV range, here the Boss is now 315 and the F6 is 310. Suggesting the Boss has an advantage yet many F6's have put figures on dyno's much higher than equivalent Boss's.

MAGPIE · 19-03-2010, 08:22 PM

Power badges would be the first thing I'd remove from the car...

My BF XR8 had the 260 stickers on the bulge, they didn't last long, along with the rest of the tacky stickers down the sides.

xc4me · 19-03-2010, 07:32 PM

interesting article on badges like this claiming europeans opt for the badge delete of high range cars and americans tend to add badges to low range like 'M' sport badges

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/11/r...discreet-look/

**Revolver** · 19-03-2010, 07:34 PM

HMMMM, Unfortunately I have always looked at these cars, as the 'newest', the the 'newest, oh its not, big deal'. Just the way my brain works. However these badges can always have a flip side. I.e. having more power than the badge says. Kinda gives it a sleeper image to some extent, you know, it looks stock. PSSSST, SSHHHHH (but it aint). & no one knows till you line up at the christmas tree........

Rodp · 19-03-2010, 08:34 PM

I've spent a whole 0.0 seconds actually pondering the number on the back, side or sticker so I guess it really doesn't matter that much to me.

I'm not a fan of the stripe kits for the GT's so I'd leave it off but if I had an F6, I'd leave the 310 on the rear door and boot or if I had an HSV, I'd not bother touching the badges wherever they were. If I went nuts and got an E2 HSV, I'd remove the 23 badges from it, tho. :P

Auslandau · 19-03-2010, 08:42 PM

All those driving a VS? with the massive 185 on its bum lovingly showing what they have to offer ....

: I think they would vote "Size doesn't matter!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

If I went nuts and got an E2 HSV, I'd remove the 23 badges from it, tho. :P

Bang for your buck ... another 1.5 secs on the 1/4 mile for very little extra spent!!

| [/url] |

Windsor220 · 19-03-2010, 10:18 PM

I should really take the 220 badge off the back of my car. Its a bit low these days.

After you modify its not even accurate anyay.

Scott · 19-03-2010, 10:29 PM

Good question...

I guess "power badges" are akin to "model badges" - where 307 is to 317, as RX330 is to RX350 (ie - two cars that are the same but are different). Personally, I like the clean look of badge-less cars and can also relate to the feeling of my model being dated in the public eye because of a really defining marque. If I was buying a GTS for example and there were two 2008 cars, one was a 307 and one a 317, I would put a real financial value on the perception of the newer, better car - I'd put a little egotistical value on it too.

I'm not phased enough to warrant taking badges off, but I do understand your mates anxiety with a 302 being compared to his 40th Ann (nice phrasing on the GT40 too lol).

The Monty · 19-03-2010, 11:47 PM

I dont think it matters as most are modified, and dont represent that number anyway.

snappy · 19-03-2010, 11:54 PM

It does matter for some people i meet a bloke at a party that drove a gtp he said he choose the gtp over the f6 because it had higher numbers . I did try to explain to him the f6 is quicker . But he would not have a bar of it told me it cant be his has more kw .
I tell you now though this bloke almost turned me in to a holden man just becuse i did not want to own a similar car to him . Absolute muppet this fella

**DJM83** · 21-03-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy

It does matter for some people i meet a bloke at a party that drove a gtp he said he choose the gtp over the f6 because it had higher numbers . I did try to explain to him the f6 is quicker . But he would not have a bar of it told me it cant be his has more kw .
I tell you now though this bloke almost turned me in to a holden man just becuse i did not want to own a similar car to him . Absolute muppet this fella

Should have mentioned the torque figures

rancidpunx · 20-03-2010, 09:35 AM

There will always be people out there who want the highest number and both sides of the fence will win that customer with whoever has the highest badge number at the time. There will also be brand loyalists who have to have the new version and will upgrade to every new model to have the higher number. Other than that im not fussed on badges and think companys should distinguish models with subtle exterior styling. The XR6T should be ever so slightly "more" than the XR6, but the same as the XR8 but without the bulge.

Will be interesting to see what happens now with the F6. With the coyote coming and the expected face lift for the V8s, will the I6T get the same treatment. Will they tune the engine a little or just raise the badge number as its already understated.

Bossxr8 · 21-03-2010, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Historically Ford/FTE/FPV did not do this and if you bought a 200kw XR8 it looked the same to most as the 220 etc.

The AU III XR8 had a 220 badge under the XR8 badge on the bootlid.

FPV GTHO · 21-03-2010, 01:53 PM

I think they should keep it for special editions. Putting it on everything dilutes its relevance.

04redxr8 · 21-03-2010, 01:56 PM

Voted optional, I dont care about the number, just how it drives and feels.

As long as I know what it is, dont care what others think.

View Poll Results: Do you thing "power" badges are a good idea?
Yes, mandatory. I want passers by to know exactly what I am driving	2	3.08%
Yes, optional. Some like some don't, it is personal choice	36	55.38%
No. It detracts from the "class" of the marque, AMG, M etc don't do it.	25	38.46%
Meh, who cares I will put a real badge on showing the power of my heavily modded street weapon	2	3.08%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll