Race legend Allan Moffat's safety plan to teach children to drive

Bobman · 23-07-2010, 12:46 AM

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nat...-1225895839663

Quote:

CHILDREN as young as 12 should be taught how to drive as part of the school curriculum, legendary racing driver Allan Moffat says.

The touring car driver, who won four Bathurst 1000 titles in a stellar career, said that car dealers could get involved by providing training vehicles to schools.

"Not learning how to drive a car properly at a young age is a quick way to kill yourself if you're really stupid behind the wheel and you have no idea what you're doing," he said.

A survey to be released today by the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport shows that 72 per cent of the organisation's members want driver education to be compulsory in secondary schools.

More than 80 per cent believe that driver education would have a much greater impact on cutting the road toll than increasing the driving age.

CAMS president Andrew Papadopoulos said that the roll-out of education programs, such as the CAMS Ignition program would help to save lives.

Mr Papadopoulos called on the Federal Government to back the idea, saying that road trauma cost Australia about $17 billion a year.

"(An education program) is not a lot of money compared to what we are already spending on road crashes," he said.

"This is a preventative measure to stop bodies being mangled. I have heard a mother say, 'If my kid is taught about sex education why can't he be taught about driver education?'."

Under the plan, high school students would initially do an all-day driving course and then have refresher sessions during the year.

Canadian-born Moffat said it was a great idea and could also include a North American practice in which car dealers provide local schools with training vehicles.

"Kids are left too late to get behind the wheel. They get frustrated. They see mum and dad driving and they think, 'Oh, that can't be too hard, anybody can do that'," he said.

Trinity Grammar principal Richard Tudor said a compulsory program wouldn't be realistic, but he supported voluntary sessions after school.

"I believe if a small proportion of willing students were involved it should prove very beneficial," he said.

Mr Tudor said the issue of drink-driving should be an essential part of the school curriculum.

I think Moffat is onto something and agree about drumming important car control lessons into kids before they turn 18.

Unfortunately with our pathetic Governments who only want money but not spend any, this will probably be brushed aside.

JC · 23-07-2010, 01:02 AM

How about ther government and Ubisoft (or another games company) make a sim style driver teaching "game" for PSP, nintendo DS etc - that way kids get an idea of car control (albeit via a button pad), but the game should end if the driver crashes, and doesn't restart til after the "game funeral". Just an idea (never said it was a good one though!)

Bobman · 23-07-2010, 01:05 AM

Nothing wrong with a simulator at all. That's how they train pilots before they even start to fly a revenue flight.

Brute 33 · 23-07-2010, 06:10 AM

I have always said this should happen through the schools but red tape would kill off the idea ... OHS would have a field day with that and insurance ....but the more high profile people getting behind the idea it might just happen.

LTDHO · 23-07-2010, 07:46 AM

Drink = No
Vote = No
Full Time employment = No

Operate a 1.8 Tonne Machine with the capacity to Kill = Yes.

WTF is he thinking?

**Bundy** · 23-07-2010, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Drink = No
Vote = No
Full Time employment = No

Operate a 1.8 Tonne Machine with the capacity to Kill = Yes.

WTF is he thinking?

Thats got to be the most narrow minded thinking yet ,,,so sad.

pottery beige · 23-07-2010, 09:13 AM

for so many years we didnt hear boo out of Mr Moffat... i think its great he's finally having his say on a few topics... Mr Moffat bloody legend, true champion!!!

Ford_The_Win · 23-07-2010, 09:25 AM

Teaching "children" how to drive? That sentence alone should be ringing alarm bells. Not all children have the cognitive ability to perform certain tasks or behave in certain ways because their minds haven't fully developed (in males they don't fully mature until age 24!!). When was the last time you were in a classroom with a group of year 8 or year 9 students? I learned to drive on the farm when I was 11, but it didn't make it any easier when I went for my licence (except for slow speed maneuvres), and for the first few months I dreaded driving in traffic because I hadn't had enough experience on the road as an L plater, even though I knew perfectly well how to control a car on dirt roads, at high speed, in the mud etc.

SVTVNM · 23-07-2010, 09:35 AM

At my Secondry school in Year 11 we all had options of different educational activities to do for a week before the end of one of the Terms, one of these was drivers Ed, Those who had L plates obviously were out on the road and those who were still too young ie, not yet 16,that would be me

, did a heap of obticle course test at the sale yards. All this was done by one of the Driver training Acedemies in town. I think this was a great option to have offered and I am convinced I learnt quite a bit especially about manourvering and car control prior to actually going for my L's.

Bobman · 23-07-2010, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Drink = No
Vote = No
Full Time employment = No

Operate a 1.8 Tonne Machine with the capacity to Kill = Yes.

WTF is he thinking?

What about all the learners on the road aged 15 and above?

Should be more worried about police officers who shoot themselves in the leg.

irlewy86 · 23-07-2010, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Drink = No
Vote = No
Full Time employment = No

Operate a 1.8 Tonne Machine with the capacity to Kill = Yes.

WTF is he thinking?

Old enough to be packed off to a foreign country to fight someone elses war = yes

LTDHO · 23-07-2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundy

Thats got to be the most narrow minded thinking yet ,,,so sad.

Really? I assume you don't have kids or are one yourself. Let's hand out guns at school, it's OK, we will teach them which end the bullet comes out... Let me know how sad it is when a fire fighter has to hose the remains of a kid out of a car after a smash, oh it's OK, just being open minded! Literally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

What about all the learners on the road aged 15 and above?
Should be more worried about police officers who shoot themselves in the leg.

I disagree with 15 also!
I was concerned that an elite trainer shot himself. One word, 'safety'

Quote:

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Old enough to be packed off to a foreign country to fight someone elses war = yes

Australia send 12 year olds to foreign countrys to fight?

irlewy86 · 23-07-2010, 01:03 PM

Nevermind.

flappist · 23-07-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Really? I assume you don't have kids or are one yourself. Let's hand out guns at school, it's OK, we will teach them which end the bullet comes out...

Which is what is done in Switzerland and they have a very low gun crime problem.
Here in Australia you have to be 14 to get a gun license (18 to possess in public), below that you are only allowed to shoot under supervision on private property.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Let me know how sad it is when a fire fighter has to hose the remains of a kid out of a car after a smash, oh it's OK, just being open minded! Literally.

No more or less sad than when a firefighter finds the remains of a child who has started a fire while playing in the kitchen or with some other device. So lets ban cooking training and the use of computers, heaters, playstations etc. until they are 18 rather than teach them how to do it safely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

I disagree with 15 also!
I was concerned that an elite trainer shot himself. One word, 'safety'

You can learn to fly an aeroplane at 15, always have been able to. You have to be 16 to get a license (or 18 to be employed as a commercial pilot)

Having been involved in firearms professionally for many many years I have yet to see a Police officer anywhere in Australia that I was class as elite with regard to firearms usage.
How many driving trainers have had a prang or two....

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Australia send 12 year olds to foreign countrys to fight?

No I think they send them on to internet forums.........

**Bundy** · 23-07-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Really? I assume you don't have kids or are one yourself. Let's hand out guns at school, it's OK, we will teach them which end the bullet comes out... Let me know how sad it is when a fire fighter has to hose the remains of a kid out of a car after a smash, oh it's OK, just being open minded! Literally.

Well looks like you really are grasphing at all the straws you can get you hands on. .... still so sad

I am no kid haven't been for a while and yes I've had kids, its thanks to the great attitude of MY parents getting onto it while I was young that helped me.

On a more positive note, I too was taught to drive a manual before the age of 13 on a dirt road in the cane fields, I was fortunate enough to race stock cars at speedway well before I was able to go for a road licence. I firmly believe that while I've never been an expert on professional driving, these did give me a firm learning basis and a great understanding of vechile control and dynamics.
Incidently, the first time I did drive on the road I remember still being S*** scared, even though racing and sliding a car sideways into a corner at 100km + on the track was normal, we were all going the same way.

Do people remember the episode of Top Gear where James May did the story of young driver training in Finland......food for thought.

LTDHO · 23-07-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundy

Well looks like you really are grasphing at all the straws you can get you hands on. .... still so sad.

No straw grasping, I've just had enough with dealing with the constant increasing road toll, and now it will include 12 to 18 year olds.

GT · 23-07-2010, 05:05 PM

Rather than have an opinion I will just speak from experience as I raised 3 sons who are now between 22 - 27.

In fairness they did have the advantage of a rural property in New Zealand and I do realise that this is not a luxury that most Aussie and Kiwi kids have.

My boys were on quad bikes at 8 years old and always wore safety gear and never had to be reminded. They all learned to drive by 13 and had been working on the tractor for a year or two at that stage. I bought a nice manual Mini and they would drive around the paddock in front of the homestead where I could see them and I cannot recall ever having to remove the keys for stupid behaviour - but they knew I would if there was anything out of order. They were definitely at an age where they still listened, didn't argue and hadn't stumbled across being bigger experts than me, on everything - that came later!

They got their Learners at 15 and the whole thing was just part of everyday life. There were rules and if they didn't adhere to them they knew the car would be confiscated so didn't go there.

The only drama I ever had was when no2 son at 18, decided to drag another idiot off at the traffic lights and a police car was behind him. His precious car was confiscated for 30 days, he had to go to court, pay a fine, pay the storage of the car and when the car was winched on the tow truck, they badly damaged the front bar. I refused to help him finance any of this drama and he learned his lesson.

My boys also paid for their cars. One cleaned the school toilets for 2 1/2 years to have enough to buy what he wanted and the youngest did tractor work - rain, hail and shine. Having worked so hard for these prize possessions they were very careful with them.

I am in favour of introducing everyday life skills as early as sensible while the kids are still co-operating and listening and have respect/fear for the parent. The laws in NZ also help parents deal with this transition.

Gaela

4Vman · 23-07-2010, 07:53 AM

Allot of schools in melb are already doing these driver ed courses as part of their curriculum.. and have been doing it for years..
A friends kid did a full 2 day driver ed course in year 10 before most even had their learners.. then refresher workshops during the rest of the year.

Ride · 23-07-2010, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Allot of schools in melb are already doing these driver ed courses as part of their curriculum.. and have been doing it for years..
A friends kid did a full 2 day driver ed course in year 10 before most even had their learners.. then refresher workshops during the rest of the year.

But is the driver ed. course sitting in a car driving it rather than sitting in a room being told facts and figures?

4Vman · 23-07-2010, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ride

But is the driver ed. course sitting in a car driving it rather than sitting in a room being told facts and figures?

2 full days at the driving center in kilsyth in cars...... ALL had to drive manuals regardless, most had never driven before.

While its great to see people like Alan pushing the "driver ed in schools" angle its certainly no "revelation".. its been happening in schools for ages.

While not all secondary schools embrace it completely most do.

If your kids school doesn't do this kind of thing then the parents committee needs to hammer their Principle.

Ride · 23-07-2010, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

2 full days at the driving center in kilsyth in cars...... ALL had to drive manuals regardless, most had never driven before.

While its great to see people like Alan pushing the "driver ed in schools" angle its certainly no "revelation".. its been happening in schools for ages.

Never in my life have I heard of that being done, sounds like something that doesn't happen in NSW (no surprise there). The interesting thing is that I left high school in 2006 and the only thing we had was facts and figures at these 'driver education' centres.

BTTB · 23-07-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ride

Never in my life have I heard of that being done, sounds like something that doesn't happen in NSW (no surprise there).

my English tutor in 88/89 was the head english teacher of Coffs Harbour High School (NSW)

He instigated their driver eduction program back then ! The school bought a second hand car, and he
was a qualified driving instructor too, so they got small weekly lessons before sitting for the L's
(don't know if its continued)

I think its a great idea... not all kids are going to want to do it
but everyone should start off driving a manual

I learn't how to drive on a neighbours Massey Ferguson at the age of 12 around our 2 acre property... by 13 I was riding motorbikes.

flappist · 23-07-2010, 08:12 AM

Ok that is two high profile people pushing this idea.

Moffat has obviously observed the reaction to Skaife and made no mention of speed limits or anything else that may be perceived as a threat to "road revenue".

Brilliant idea really. Myself and most of my school friends were driving and riding motorcycles from about 12 years old and strangely all of us passed our licenses first go after only 2 weeks on learners (in manual cars with no power steering or power brakes and the handling of a brick resting on marbles).

I am not so sure about the simulator idea for ab initio training though, the concept of loss of control that may lead to a fatal crash can be fixed by pressing reset is NOT a good idea.

I fly and never went anywhere near a sim until I was doing instrument training several years after passing my first license test. You cannot simulate the real world in 3 dimensions (yet).

302 XC · 23-07-2010, 08:16 AM

Oh another "EX" racer pushing driver ED
Skaise,Gardner,Now Moffat
Whos next

The main thing ive heard thats 1,000% correct,that needs to be replaced is
Parents teaching their kids BAD driving habits

tranquilized · 23-07-2010, 09:38 AM

I had some driver training in high school. It was in the early 90's, it was an optional course for an hour a week for a month or so, in an old manual Gemini, with one of the teachers, off the road in controlled conditions. Hardly what Moffat is talking about, but I think it was beneficial. It was the first time I'd ever driven a manual car, and I still remember and use some tips given to me in those classes.

I think its a great idea. 12 years old might be a little young. Start it at 15 or 16, when the student is able to get their L's, and tie it in with the licenseing system - make passing the course compulsory before obtaining a probationary license.

mik · 23-07-2010, 10:07 AM

obviousely the kids would be under supervision, so there is no issue there, extra life skills or not? it seems like a no brainer, 10 points to the Moff.

dallasv8 · 23-07-2010, 03:33 PM

theres already a lot of kids in australia that learn to drive at an early age.myself and my older sister were driving our '73 escort 2 door manual to the bus stop when we were 11.
just one of the perks of living in rural australia i guess

im all for it,or at least teaching them the theory and road rules side of it at school.

BENT_8 · 23-07-2010, 04:15 PM

Moff has a great idea!

I doubt, however, that incar skills would be taught to 12 year olds.

I would like to see driver ed. group discussions even if only for 1/2 hr a week in schools for 12-14y.o
Discussing things like-
Peer pressure and how it impacts inexperienced drivers.
bad habits they see in parents/other motorists etc.
Attitude towards driving
Differentiating between whats appropriate for the road and what needs to be taken to a track.

Then get em in cars from 15 at approved training centres with the right attitude.

RedHotGT · 23-07-2010, 03:42 PM

My 6 year old son has been go karting with me before...
and while go karting is quite different to driving on the road... he had quite a good grasp on how to steer and drive... and after a few laps... even was starting to get the hang of where to place the kart on the road...
he has also ridden quad bikes before (and I am far from a motorbike rider) and again has a great concept of how they operate and what to do...

whether this means ANYTHING for his future driving skills I have no idea... but I'm sure that it will develop over the years, and if he shows interest in wanting to improve his skills, I will do everything I can to help improve them...

I believe they should teach more about road safety at schools (I finished yr12 in 1999 - and can't remember EVER having classes regarding road safety or rules)...

The sooner they understand the concepts of driving - the better...

Kryton · 23-07-2010, 04:23 PM

Funny how there is little to no objection about teaching 10 year olds sex ed at school, but even think about putting a 12 year old behind the wheel to learn valuable life skills and theres somehow a massive injustice in the world.

I would rather an 18 yo P plater on the road with up to 6 years supervised driving experience than some self centred know all that has 120 hours that thinks they are the next greatest racing car driver.