140km/h safer in Australia

[vztrt]

Says Safety Expert

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...011-16fer.html

140km/h safer in Australia: Safety expert
Barry Park
October 11, 2010 - 3:21PM



A leading German safety expert says Australian drivers could travel faster on freeways in an effort to reduce the road toll

Australian drivers would be safer travelling at higher speeds on freeways, a German safety expert says.

Dr Ulrich Mellinghoff, the head of safety at German luxury car maker Mercedes-Benz, believes that Australian authorities could also better manage our road network to create a system that was much safer for all motorists.

Dr Mellinghoff is visiting Australia to showcase safety technology fitted to the car maker's vehicles. He said drivers here should be allowed to travel faster on long stretches of road, mainly to fight fatigue.
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He said Australian roads also needed to be better managed to introduce a European-style system where slow-moving traffic - including trucks - was confined to the left lane on freeways, freeing up the right lane for high-speed traffic.

''In Germany, it is not allowed for cars to pass on both sides (of slow-moving traffic),'' he said. ''This divides the traffic more or less, with faster driving on the left side and the slower-driving cars on the right side.

''I think there is no difference here. A system that works in Germany will work in Australia the same way.

''Maybe a top speed of 200km/h is not necessary, but I think if you divided it (the traffic) a little bit on these very long distances you have to drive, it's better to drive at 130 km/h or 140 km/h, although in terms of drowsiness you still have to drive at 100km/h.

''We in Germany have absolutely no problem with higher speeds. We've discussed it often, and very often the discussion was that it was unsafe. But our statistics show this is not the case.''

Dr Mellinghoff, who is on his first visit to Australia, said while the quality of roads here was comparable with those in Germany, the drivers were not.

''In Australia, the people drive very close to each other, and the distance between two cars is much closer than in Germany,'' he said. ''I think the people don't realise how critical, how dangerous this is.''

Dr Mellinghoff said Australia could also improve its road safety record by lowering all suburban speed limits to 60km/h, and imposing a much harsher speed limit on trucks.

''We know that a truck going from 80km/h to zero needs the same length in braking as a passenger car at 120km/h to zero,'' he said.

''It's better that trucks drive at 80km/h or 90km/h. I think this would help to optimise safety in Australia.''

Authorities would also have to do more to separate different road users, such as cars and cyclists, he said.

''I was very surprised to read on the highway that cyclists have to use the parking shoulder,'' he said.

''In Germany, it is absolutely forbidden for the bicycle to go on the highway. We try to divide the different people, the different partners in the traffic, and it makes it much safer.''

Despite having no speed limits on some roads, Dr Mellinghoff said the annual number of deaths per head of population in Germany had remained constant for the past five years, at about 28 fatalities per 100,000 people.

By comparison, he said, Australia's fatality rate sits at about 30 deaths per 100,000 people, almost the same as Germany's.

Of the 4000 people expected to die on German roads this year, only about 150 deaths were likely to be attributed to crashes on high-speed highways, Dr Mellinghoff said.

He said the next goal for car makers was to get the death rate down to one in 100,000 people, or about the same as the annual death toll for the aviation industry.

Volvo is working in conjunction with the Swedish authorities to aim for a zero road toll by 2020 as part of its Vision 2020 program.

[T3man]

Many of the points he makes I have advocated for many many years. Particularly separating cyclists from general traffic and lowering speed limits of heavy vehicles.

[sleek7]

I would like it where appropriate (obviously not going to be applied to all freeways) but I cant see it happening here for a long time.

[MexicanBatman]

I'd like to try driving at any speed on the fwy even the posted limit but all lanes are filled with people doing 80 in a 100 zone trucks sitting in the tint lane passing slower trucks..... No one has a clue..... If you have driven in Europe you'll know that people over there have a better idea of what's going on and to keep left or right in their case..

I'm surprised my local freeway hasn't gor a bus lane and bike lanes painted on it that are never used judging by all the other stupid ideas around my area... Might have to try doing 140 in the emergency lane, usually the only lane that's free, until a hot day and then it's full of e series that have overheated lol

I don't think our roads are of equal quality, maybe vs the free roads, but not the tolled ones

[GS608]

don't like the idea of lowering all suburban limits to 60!

[AWD Chaser]

This "leading German safety expert" wouldn't have anything to do with the trip that Mark Skaife made a few months back to Germany, then came back and said he same thing, in which the VIC government slammed him.....

EDIT: Source Found:

http://www.etstreet.com/index.php?/t...ted-to-140kmh/

Skaife, who recently returned from a five-day driving safety study tour of Germany, said the mentality of Australian drivers needed to change.

My only concern would be: what about the L-Platers doing 80 and your doing 140... a 60kph difference can come up bloody quick if your not 100% attentive...

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by AWD Chaser

My only concern would be: what about the L-Platers doing 80 and your doing 140... a 60kph difference can come up bloody quick if your not 100% attentive...

Ban L platers from driving on these roads? Either way there will be Joe Blo in his cardigan fuffing around at the same speed so it wouldent make much of a difference.

See, there will be a spike in deaths till most of the "bad drivers" are eliminated one way or another due to being too slow or uneducated in terms of driving. So they'd immendiatly scream blue murder and drop the limits to 80 and up the roads tax because they were right...

I definatly support the idea of increasing the limit (not lowering in suburbia and trucks) but unless there was some form of decent actual driver education made manditory, i wouldent be to crash hot on it happening.

[Revolver]

Ha Ha Ha, far out a Genuine LOL.

There are quite a few drivers doing 60 to 80 in 100/110 zones. So whats the point. rolling along at the designated speed limit of 140, only to have to emergency brake for these drivers......

Now this may be crossing the political line here, but imagine the planning, infrastructure, governing bodies, maintenance crews for this, the Government (state or federal) would never allow it to happen simply from the point of costing.... I Say the "Flapco Flapway" is a better option.....

This will never happen. Imagine the uproar from the Transport Sector if trucks were limited to 90, fwoarr... (Yes I know rigs constantly have their limiters removed, illegally I might add).

The government will dissmiss this as a another "False Statement" & that this "Expert" "Should talk to the parents of the Children, Teenagers, Learners, & P-Platers killed by speed related incidents"

Remember speed kills....

[T3man]

Originally Posted by Blue Beast II

Ha Ha Ha, far out a Genuine LOL.

There are quite a few drivers doing 60 to 80 in 100/110 zones. So whats the point. rolling along at the designated speed limit of 140, only to have to emergency brake for these drivers......

Unfortunately for the minority of us who can drive safely at speeds much higher than current limits we will always be blocked by people who think like this. You simply didn't read or understand the point - for higher limits to be viable there has to be speed separation. People who want to do 40km/h below the limit will not be allowed in the "fast" lane. In effect the limit is applied to the lane, not the road. The ideal scenario is minimum 3 lanes for all major inter-city motorways. Truck lane 90 limit (also accommodates slower drivers including Learners and grandpas towing vans etc), slow lane 110 limit (also accommodates overtaking for left lane users on hills etc), and fast lane 130 limit. Those arbitrary limits mentioned are of my own suggestion based on many years of driver training in both heavy and light vehicles.

But yes, I agree the infrastructure is the prohibitive factor - governments simply won't allocate the funds to create this "safe" road system because there is no measureable monetary benefit for them. They can't see the cost benefit of saving lives because it can't be computed into their budgets.

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by T3man

Unfortunately for the minority of us who can drive safely at speeds much higher than current limits we will always be blocked by people who think like this. You simply didn't read or understand the point - for higher limits to be viable there has to be speed separation. People who want to do 40km/h below the limit will not be allowed in the "fast" lane. In effect the limit is applied to the lane, not the road. The ideal scenario is minimum 3 lanes for all major inter-city motorways. Truck lane 90 limit (also accommodates slower drivers including Learners and grandpas towing vans etc), slow lane 110 limit (also accommodates overtaking for left lane users on hills etc), and fast lane 130 limit. Those arbitrary limits mentioned are of my own suggestion based on many years of driver training in both heavy and light vehicles.

Well obviously, there would be designated lanes & speeds for said lanes. So there would be 3, 4, maybe 5 lanes per direction. However, if you have driven on a multi lane carriageway, (which by your post no doubt you would have)you constantly see drivers cruising along at their own merry speed without keeping left??? It's rife up here. In QLD that is a fineable traffic violantion. (Theyve only started cracking down on this on ONE stretch of motorway now).


Now let's take this one step further. What's to prevent this from happening on these designated high speed carriageways? They do it now Even though it's unlawful to do this. How will this ignorance change on these faster freeways??

Policing is an option. However we hit the same problem, different area for this. As per the current voice on speed. The governing body would enforce it like nazis. Any opportunity to slug you for being in the wrong lane at the wrong speed, you will be. Not to mention extra staffing, & time to conduct this policing.... The government really wouldn't make cent.

Governments are big business, they are there to make money. That's a fact. If it's not good for the budgetary sheets, it's not good for the public.

However I hope I'm wrong & at some point the decades of this entrenched dogma will be disolved & we may be able to have & enjoy these high limit roads.

[mik]

he`s right about the driving styles , many people here drive to close to the car in front, don`t agree with the truck remark, maybe in suburbia it might be ok, out in the sticks it would suk.

[kinksta]

With all the country driving I do there are definitely some long open dual carriageways that could be at least 120kmph.

[fmc351]

I cant imagine anyone being happy with the bill to build the infrastructure. Certainly not between capitals anyway.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by fmc351

I cant imagine anyone being happy with the bill to build the infrastructure. Certainly not between capitals anyway.

I can think of of someone......

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by flappist

I can think of of someone......

Well yeah, you found a generous benefactor. With enough mirrors you could fund anything.

[JG65TE]

look at the northern territory. they killed open speeds and consequently killed more people.......... what a brilliant government

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by JG65TE

look at the northern territory. they killed open speeds and consequently killed more people.......... what a brilliant government

The government could not give a **** about saving lives.
All they care about is how big there bonus is at the end of the year.

[Swordsman88]

I don't think when it comes to government that proper research has anything to do with it. THey might want to do the right thing but the misguided and myopic public like simple answers and 'speed kills' is about as simple as it gets. Fact is that logic and research has bugger all to do with it....its about the lowest common denominator. I've done enough highway running (some if it in areas that passing another car every 10 min is considered 'busy') to know that that higher limits (whithin reason) ARE safer for FACT but it aint worth squat as long as you have gutless politicans and equally misinformed voting public. I may have had one too many whiskeys this evening but as the old american saying says, 'ive seen what i've seen, and i know what i know!'.

[aussie muscle]

''I think there is no difference here. A system that works in Germany will work in Australia the same way.

Yeah, except we've got less population than germany but are 20 times the size... If Victoria had the income of all of Germany, they'd have the best road system in the world.

we (australians) don't have the budget or the inclination to do anything about it. a super-fast rail system between brisbane and melbourne was suggested as a good idea in the early 80s. absolutely nothing has ever come of it.

[CFOUR]

140km/h yes please. that is all

[Bearman]

It'll never happen!! End of story!! At least not in this state. Sure, an election is coming up but the motorist hating muppets currently occupying Spring St will probably get back in. Too many Prius drivers...............

[Quicksand]

Its arguable that we dont need a whole lot more infrastructure change. We have some of the safest and well kept roads on the planet. We have cars that are very capable and are much safer compared to only a few years ago.

[outback_ute]

Do they have open/non-restricted speed limits on autobahns with only 2 lanes in each direction? Apart from some fairly short stretches we don't have multi-lane freeways outside cities needed to implement that sort of speed limit in my opinion.

I don't think Dr Mellinghoff appreciates some of the differences between the Australian road network and the German, such as bicycles being allowed on country highways because there aren't any alternative roads they can use.

Then you get into driver training, it would take a couple of generations to achieve a consistent increase in skill if something was done. When you have a more stringent system to get a forklift licence than a car licence something is wrong!

I agree with what Dr Mellinghoff says but I just can't see it happening.

[FPV8U]

I like what he says but sadly it will never get anywhere.

[xp_wannabe]

do they have caravans in Germany?

[davessleepin351]

lol... australia is missing one big ingredient to having better traffic management. MANAGERS IN GOVERNMENT. Did you know in the barossa valley there is a contingent of elderly people that still have their drivers licence's (under provisions that are not inforced) even though they are unfit to drive because it could "hurt their feelings" and could effect the length of there lives. OMG. i would do anything ever to get 140kph on the highways/freeways, but with 90 year olds doing 50 in 110 zones on the highway (i see them every week) it would be dangerous, i gotta jump on the brakes wen they pull out in front of me on the highway and they never speed up past 60. fix it pollys you greedy bastards.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by davesdodgy351

Did you know in the barossa valley there is a contingent of elderly people that still have their drivers licence's (under provisions that are not inforced) even though they are unfit to drive because it could "hurt their feelings" and could effect the length of there lives. OMG. i would do anything ever to get 140kph on the highways/freeways, but with 90 year olds doing 50 in 110 zones on the highway (i see them every week) it would be dangerous, i gotta jump on the brakes wen they pull out in front of me on the highway and they never speed up past 60. fix it pollys you greedy bastards.

Funny that you mention these drivers, I've been living in the Valley now for 5 years and haven't come across these types of drivers, but then again, I drive out of the Barossa every day for work, not around it. Besides, there is only one road where you can do 110km/h now in the Barossa and that's the Sturt Highway. Everything else is now 80 or 90km/h.

Originally Posted by xp_wannabe

do they have caravans in Germany?

Yes, and large trucks too, and they are all over in the far right lane where slow cars belong. The main difference between here and there is that everyone is courteous over on European roads. So, slow cars stick to the right lanes and the fast ones are in the left hand ones. If a faster car comes up behind you in your lane, you move over to get out of their way! A simple, but brilliant way to drive, but it would mean a massive change in driving habits here in Australia.
You think Italians are crazy drivers? Well, they are, but it works as they are courteous to their fellow drivers on the road. Just don't try to figure out what the speed limit is. You won't succeed.

[Brute6]

The unfortunate thing for this topic, that no matter what ideas/evidence/statistics are provided, our pigfaced politicians will never allow such a thing.
They are only interested in the income from stupid "road safety cameras", and all they have on their mind is that speed is always the major factor in a crash....
It is ridiculous.
The least they could do is have a time period trial on a road, and see the actual facts there and then, right in front of them.
But they'll never admit they are wrong.....

[davessleepin351]

[QUOTE=sgt_doofey]Funny that you mention these drivers, I've been living in the Valley now for 5 years and haven't come across these types of drivers, but then again, I drive out of the Barossa every day for work, not around it. Besides, there is only one road where you can do 110km/h now in the Barossa and that's the Sturt Highway. Everything else is now 80 or 90km/h.[QUOTE=sgt_doofey]




its not only elderly, but the disabled as well. I have relatives in the industry, and if you havent had this issue your either heading towards town, or your one of them im constantly having to hit the skids, i saw some old bloke take out a give way sign the other day coz he thought the turn off lane went straight on!!

[gtfpv]

the latest i'm hearing is the govt overwhelmingly is considering 140km roads , as long as we can have fixed speed cameras in the black spots ( entry and exit lanes ) set at 90kms an hour at the merging point