how much training do vic police get?

CODSASR · 21-02-2011, 01:58 AM

Just wondering how much training non HWP officers get on cars.

I have just gotten home from a BBQ and since I had a few too many I got my brother in law to drive home he is a P plater. Well halfway home we get pulled over two officers got out of the car a older officer and a young one who would have been about 19 or 20 they asked to pop the bonnet and the young one proceded to have a look whial the older one asked whos car it was and asked for my brother in laws licence then went back to his car to check details.

Whial we where waiting the young one came back to the drivers window and said he would have to charge my brother in law for driving a turbo powerd vehicle whial on P plates. I looked over and said show me what your talking about as there is no turbo. When I got to the front of the car he pointed at the throttle body and said thats a turbo

just then the older officer showed up asking what the problem was. The young one said that I tried to say there is no turbo and pointed at the throttle body well the older one laughed and said no mate thats the throttle body the young one went a bit red.

In the end we got an apology and sent us on our way. So I am wondering how much the new recruits are tought about cars or did we just get a smart *** one?

(

please no cop bashing)

prydey · 21-02-2011, 02:39 AM

In S.A. if a police officer 'suspects' something isn't legal, he can then defect the car and its up to the owner to take the car through an inspection centre and prove whether or not it is ok. the guys in the inspection centre are switched on to most things.

most times, unless its glareingly obvious, if you give them the 'yes sir, no sir, 3 bags full sir' respect, generally they will let you go.

2011G6E · 21-02-2011, 07:08 AM

As with any profession, some people know about mechanical things, and some have literally no idea...it will be no different with cops.

I do think when it comes to things like defects, that they should at least know what they're looking at. I recall getting pulled over for a "roadside mechanical" when I was a younger guy, and all they did was measure tyres, make sure they didn't protrude beyond the guards, check for extractors (back in the early eighties in QLD it was still a defect to put them on a car they didn't come from the factory with but it was generally ignored), and check ride height.

I imagine now they have to carry a list of what sort of car isn't allowed to be driven by a P plater...

BPXR6T · 21-02-2011, 09:09 AM

I don't think they get much training at all. Got pulled over last night for a breathe test and the arrogant young copper says he can smell drugs in the car and demands to see inside my esky. My Mum's home made lasagna smells nothing like dope, fail! Back to the academy for you. But yeah on the car training thing I feel your pain. I was told my alternator was a supercharger once.

The Yeti · 21-02-2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BPXR6T

But yeah on the car training thing I feel your pain. I was told my alternator was a supercharger once.

you must have the high output alternator

Supercharger LOL

The Monty · 21-02-2011, 09:14 AM

If its anything like QLD police, they receive a fair amount of training. Just like all things though, people are smarter about some things then others. Put yourself in his shoes for a moment, and think of every single possible rule or law, or piece of legislation that he must know, and ask yourself if you could possibly remember them all to 100% accuracy?

geckoGT · 21-02-2011, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

If its anything like QLD police, they receive a fair amount of training. Just like all things though, people are smarter about some things then others. Put yourself in his shoes for a moment, and think of every single possible rule or law, or piece of legislation that he must know, and ask yourself if you could possibly remember them all to 100% accuracy?

Very true.

Perhaps the young cops mistake is he did not have a quiet word to the senior cop before opening his mouth.

The academy only gives the cops enough knowledge to start out, it is on road with a senior officer that the real learning begins.

Just as it is with us, a student paramedic may look at a line on a cardiac monitor and think the patient is having a heart attack. Once he has asked me about it he may find that it is not a problem and I am not concerned the patient is having a heart attack. The relevance here is the student paramedic has received the base training for the job, it is the experience that I have that makes a competent paramedic.

**Revolver** · 21-02-2011, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Very true.

Perhaps the young cops mistake is he did not have a quiet word to the senior cop before opening his mouth.

The academy only gives the cops enough knowledge to start out, it is on road with a senior officer that the real learning begins.

Just as it is with us, a student paramedic may look at a line on a cardiac monitor and think the patient is having a heart attack. Once he has asked me about it he may find that it is not a problem and I am not concerned the patient is having a heart attack. The relevance here is the student paramedic has received the base training for the job, it is the experience that I have that makes a competent paramedic.

100% correct. It the experience that is the REAL training.

Its not until you are out in the field in any job until you know how to read the signs & determine which action to take.

When I first started in drafting, I used to sit at my bosses desk asking how to do this & that for the first few months, now after a few years I very rarely go to him or call him over. Unless its something I have never come across & cant nut out myself.

Just remember, he is a cop. He doesn't know everything about cars. Although IMO he should learn these things before he embarrasses himself. Its things like this that he NEEDS to know, as his job requires it, but isnt taught in the academy.

You can read all the books you want for any occupation, but they dont teach you everything. Its occupations like being a police officer that you need to go out your way, in your own time, to learn how to do your job 99% correct. But unfortunately, some people dont.

CODSASR · 21-02-2011, 12:22 PM

I just thought if they are going to enforce these laws they would atleast tech the young officers what a turbo or super charger looks like. I dont hold it againts him atleast now he might have learned somthing.

I guess when you look at it how many different motors he would see it would get confusing for somebody who is not mechanicly minded.

Should police officers have to do a extencive training course before being alowed to issue defects and fines if they dont alredy?

geckoGT · 21-02-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CODSASR

I just thought if they are going to enforce these laws they would atleast tech the young officers what a turbo or super charger looks like. I dont hold it againts him atleast now he might have learned somthing.

I guess when you look at it how many different motors he would see it would get confusing for somebody who is not mechanicly minded.

Should police officers have to do a extencive training course before being alowed to issue defects and fines if they dont alredy?

If they are to do this without competent supervision, then yes very much so.

Iggypoppin' · 21-02-2011, 12:58 PM

I got pulled over in my old xr6 once, it was a BA and debadged, and the copper thought it was a turbo because it had no badging? I popped the hood and he pointed at the manifold and said that's the turbo...I got the sales document to show him it was not a turbo, and I had the insurance document to prove it too. He let me go but still thought I had a turbo xr6. Which was baffling anyway as in SA and on P plates I can still drive any car I like?

MITCHAY · 21-02-2011, 01:08 PM

As far as I'm concerned the real issue here was that the officer was not willing to admit to himself that he did not know and refer to someone who should.

Although I will say the if police want to try and pick out people for illegal mods they should have some basic knowledge of what could possibly be one. That is not necessarily their fault though but rather the lack of training opportunities.

That's a problem in any workplace, not knowing when to ask for assistance rather than make themselves look like an idiot.

I'd be well annoyed if I had to take my car over the pits for something that wasn't an issue and I had told them so but then again every criminal tells them they 'neva did nuthing'

geckoGT · 21-02-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MITCHAY

As far as I'm concerned the real issue here was that the officer was not willing to admit to himself that he did not know and refer to someone who should.

Although I will say the if police want to try and pick out people for illegal mods they should have some basic knowledge of what could possibly be one. That is not necessarily their fault though but rather the lack of training opportunities.

That's a problem in any workplace, not knowing when to ask for assistance rather than make themselves look like an idiot.

I'd be well annoyed if I had to take my car over the pits for something that wasn't an issue and I had told them so but then again every criminal tells them they 'neva did nuthing'

Very well said by both yourself and BBII.

What we don't know from this thread is what kind of discussion the jnr and snr cop behind the closed door of the police car. Just as the general public has not been privy to some of the closed door discussions I have had with student paramedics and jnr qualified paramedics regarding mistakes that I have had to intervene in.

This is a situation in all jobs, from trade through to professional level, mechanic, draftsman, lawyer to doctor etc. Education only goes so far, experience is what leads to competence in all applications of the job.

BENT_8 · 21-02-2011, 01:48 PM

Forgive me if im wrong, but a throttle body looks nothing like a turbo.

How can you question someone about having a turbo fitted if you dont know what one looks like.
I have never heard anyone refer to a throttle body as a turbo, and ive spoken to some mechanically inept people over the years.

Not good enough, and no excuse.

I think he missed the bit in the training manual where it says...
'Its better to say nothing and look like a fool, than open your mouth and prove it'

CODSASR · 21-02-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Forgive me if im wrong, but a throttle body looks nothing like a turbo.

How can you question someone about having a turbo fitted if you dont know what one looks like.
I have never heard anyone refer to a throttle body as a turbo, and ive spoken to some mechanically inept people over the years.

Not good enough, and no excuse.

I think he missed the bit in the training manual where it says...
'Its better to say nothing and look like a fool, than open your mouth and prove it'

That is what made me start the thred BENT obviously he is not mechanicly minded but still has the authority to issue fines and defects. I understand every one needs on the job training but instead of issuing anything shouldnt he go through a training period in the field where the senior officer teaches him what to look for when pulling cars over and not just lern from a book.

Bobman · 21-02-2011, 03:21 PM

I understand that HWP officers have to do some General Duties time first, so would be very surprised if the young one was under 20 years of age.

As far as training goes, there are plenty who have no interest or idea in cars. These types should not be accepted into HWP.

CODSASR · 21-02-2011, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobman

I understand that HWP officers have to do some General Duties time first, so would be very surprised if the young one was under 20 years of age.

As far as training goes, there are plenty who have no interest or idea in cars. These types should not be accepted into HWP.

Sorry should have clarafied in the firt post it was'nt HWP that pulled me over was just general duty guys in a divi van

prydey · 21-02-2011, 04:04 PM

i don't actually care if cops don't know all the ins and outs of every car on the road. as long as they know most of the ins and outs of the actual road rules, and enforce them, then thats fine by me. rather than pick on stereotypes, it would be nice if they were all 100% impartial in their upholding of the law. they are human though, which makes this virtually impossible. most of the younger ones still have the 'i'm going to change the world' attitude too.

Bobman · 21-02-2011, 03:54 PM

Oops, I should have been more careful in reading too.

I was pulled over once by two young guys in a marked General Duties sedan (fresh out of academy) and they did the whole drug search, throwing napkins and pens etc out of the door pocket onto the road. They were very angry that nothing was found.

Pulled over another time by a divisional van crew who were very curious about my BA (at the time) and thought it was a turbo. They paid a lot of attention to the second intake (behind headlight) and I had to explain to them what "those blue things on the right" were (extractors). They were also disappointed that they couldn't book me.

As far as General Duties goes, it's up to the individual on how much they learn about cars or anything else - hence why they shouldn't accept people into the academy without sufficient life skills. There are so many uneducated people in society today and it's more scary when those people join the police force.

grandpa_spec_F6 · 21-02-2011, 07:46 PM

Up here in qld, even after the P-Plate laws had been in for over 2 years I had a female copper breath test me and say "Well, you're well below 0.05!"

When I responded that I was in fact not allowed ANY alcohol as I was on P Plates she goes "Oh... really? *checks P Plate*, so you are! What else can't you do? Good thing you blew a negative reading!"

I was just in awe, as this was about the third police officer I had explained the P Plates rules to, and been met with the same glazed over look of "Oh really?"

Ben73 · 21-02-2011, 07:48 PM

Obviously everyone needs to learn while they are on the job. I am still learning stuff at my work after 2 years.
But it doesn't seam right that a cop fresh out of the academy can issue pointless unnecessary tickets and inconvenience people just so the can act like they know whats going on

The Monty · 21-02-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Obviously everyone needs to learn while they are on the job. I am still learning stuff at my work after 2 years.
But it doesn't seam right that a cop fresh out of the academy can issue pointless unnecessary tickets and inconvenience people just so the can act like they know whats going on

Thats why they are posted with a much higher ranking officer, so the ticket doesnt get handed out, and the young cop learns.

GS608 · 21-02-2011, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Thats why they are posted with a much higher ranking officer, so the ticket doesnt get handed out, and the young cop learns.

Yep, 6 months in the academy followed by 12 months on the job training with a field training officer at least in QLD

geckoGT · 21-02-2011, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Thats why they are posted with a much higher ranking officer, so the ticket doesnt get handed out, and the young cop learns.

As it didn't get handed out in the OP, the senior cop intervened and did his job while the young cop no doubt learnt a lesson.

Seems like in this instance the system worked and the public was not overly inconvenienced.

Redrum · 21-02-2011, 09:06 PM

In Victoria in varies from very little to quite a lot. Uniform members can undertake a vehicle safety inspection course which goes for a week including practical and written assessments which is very informative. It teaches members the basics in conducting a visual road side inspection. Members can also go on to under take Advanced Studies, a fairly intense 3 week course which is mainly Road Law based but does go into vehicles practically.

I do believe this thread will just become another cop bashing thread though.

geckoGT · 21-02-2011, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrum

I do believe this thread will just become another cop bashing thread though.

What do you mean will become a cop bashing thread, I would say it is well on its way.

tweeked · 25-02-2011, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redrum

I do believe this thread will just become another cop bashing thread though.

That seems to be your defensive comment for any form crap policing.

If the guy has less idea of what is going on under a bonnet than my girlfriend, then he has no business policing what is under it.

This is a serious problem, Yes he had another officer with him who set him straight, but the issue is you have a sworn officer who is willing to lodge an offence when he knows that he has no understanding of the subject.

Either training is not up to scratch, or the guy should not have been let loose on the public, you tell me which one, there are no other options.

Dave3911 · 21-02-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

Obviously everyone needs to learn while they are on the job. I am still learning stuff at my work after 2 years.
But it doesn't seam right that a cop fresh out of the academy can issue pointless unnecessary tickets and inconvenience people just so the can act like they know whats going on

Did you even read the thread?

Quote:

In the end we got an apology and sent us on our way.

In answer to the OP. As far as Mechanical training goes for a standard recruit - none. As pointed out already, there are specific courses that can be done afterwards (usually outside of their 2 year Probation period).

onfire · 22-02-2011, 12:15 AM

Please, I've seen a kid or two buy an older EF of EL XR6, pop the bonnet in joy and proceed to point out " the turbo " in the exact same fashion as this young cop did.

Bobman · 22-02-2011, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onfire

Please, I've seen a kid or two buy an older EF of EL XR6, pop the bonnet in joy and proceed to point out " the turbo " in the exact same fashion as this young cop did.

A little different to someone who can cause you grief and cost you a pretty penny. Same as being accused of using a mobile phone or other things. Your word against theirs (even if you are completely innocent).

All members in Victoria should at least be given a brief tour of cars at Dawson Street when they go there to change vans over etc considering how many HWP XR6Ts are coming on the road these days and sitting out the back there.

A little education never hurts.