Vfacts February 2011

[Resurrection]

Any early figures?

[vztrt]

Aussie stuff not out yet, so a bit of a teaser from the states.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/01/b...arrel-edition/

COMPANIES 2011 2010
Ford Mo Co 156,626 137,644

GM 207,028 138,849
Toyota Mo Co 141,846 100,027
Nissan NA 92,370 70,189
American Honda 98,059 80,671
Jaguar Land Rover 3,247 2,793
BMW Group 19,919 17,971

[Gobes32]

GM 270, 028!!!! That is crazy..........

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

GM 270, 028!!!! That is crazy..........

But 207,028 just a little less crazy.

But its a matter of how much profit did those cars make.

GM February incentives clearly exceeded the industry average. Johnson said GM incentives accounted for 13% of the industry's average transaction price, while the industry average was 10.6%. Experts say GM leads the industry in incentive spending.

Remember, they were the second biggest car company (in terms of sales) and still went into bankruptcy.

And a great result like that would normally be met with an increase in share price, but GM shares actually fell after the sales announcement. Shares are currently trading lower than the intial public offering in NOV. 10.

[Resurrection]

Predictons:

Falcon - struggle to get 2000
Commodore - struggle to get 3500

Corolla to be #1 seller in Feb

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Predictons:

Falcon - struggle to get 2000
Commodore - struggle to get 3500

Corolla to be #1 seller in Feb

Wow. Worse than I thought. Goodbye Falcon and Ford Australia.

[Gobes32]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

But 207,028 just a little less crazy.

.

Ha ha, got me numbers back to front. Still, 200k plus is a crazy amount of vehicles to sell and not make a profit?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Ha ha, got me numbers back to front. Still, 200k plus is a crazy amount of vehicles to sell and not make a profit?

They made a $4.7 billion profit this financial year.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Brazen

They made a $4.7 billion profit this financial year.

But thats just the problem. In the last 3 months of last year, they only made a $500 million profit worldwide (so the stock analysts assumed things were getting harder for GM in the last 3 months of 2010).

Then they come out with Feb 2011 Sales of 207,000, and news that to get those sales, they have been offering up to $3800 per vehicle in incentives. Higher than all the others, and nearly $2000 per car higher than the likes of Toyota.

Ford have come out and said they arent going to match GM in the incentives. Now one has to wonder -
1) Are GM now resorting back to old ways to try and boost sales at expense of profits
2) Has the government bailout, given GM the firepower to screw other manufacturers, to start selling cars below cost.
3) If GM sold around 2 million cars worldwide in the last 3 months of last year, and only made $500 million, they are only making $250 a car. If these are boom times for them, they aint gonna want to see bad times again.

Remember GM lost about $100 billion (not sure the exact amount) in creditors money in the bankrptcy, and the US government is currently sitting on a $10 billion loss if it was to sell all its shares. These losses occur in a roundabout way because GM transfers this money into selling cars for less than it profitablely takes to make them. It in turn causes the other manufacturers to carry out dodgy businesses practices just to keep up.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

But 207,028 just a little less crazy.

But its a matter of how much profit did those cars make.



Remember, they were the second biggest car company (in terms of sales) and still went into bankruptcy.

And a great result like that would normally be met with an increase in share price, but GM shares actually fell after the sales announcement. Shares are currently trading lower than the intial public offering in NOV. 10.

Here is how GM are doing it

[burnz]

DETROIT – General Motors Company (NYSE: GM) today announced its calendar year 2010 results marked by $4.7 billion of net income attributable to common stockholders for its first full year of operations.

Revenue for the calendar year was $135.6 billion. Automotive cash flow from operating activities was $6.6 billion and automotive free cash flow was $2.4 billion, both reflecting the impact of a $4.0 billion voluntary cash contribution to the company’s U.S. pension plans.

“Last year was one of foundation building,” said Dan Akerson, chairman and chief executive officer. “Particularly pleasing was that we demonstrated GM’s ability to achieve sustainable profitability near the bottom of the U.S. industry cycle, with four consecutive profitable quarters.”

GM generated the following results:

more here http://media.gm.com/content/media/us.../0224_earnings

[DougM]

Don't forget it's easy to make a profit when the government gives them tax breaks of $billions that they don't have to pay!!!!!!!

[RATT]

Ford
Ford Escape 362
Ford Falcon 1,572
Ford Falcon Ute 591
Ford Fiesta 1,160
Ford Focus 1,050
Ford Mondeo 735
Ford Ranger 4X2 314
Ford Ranger 4X4 894
Ford Territory 779
Ford Transit 117
Ford Transit Bus 6
Ford Transit C/C 22
TOTAL 7,602 up 6.4% on same period last yr

Holden
Holden Barina 551
Holden Barina Spark 378
Holden Caprice 168
Holden Captiva 5 175
Holden Captiva 7 704
Holden Colorado 4X2 69
Holden Colorado 4X4 923
Holden Combo 44
Holden Commodore 3,829
Holden Cruze 2,582
Holden Epica 77
Holden Utility 4X2 814
TOTAL 10,314 Down 8% on same period last yr

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by RATT

Ford
Ford Escape 362
Ford Falcon 1,572
Ford Falcon Ute 591
Ford Fiesta 1,160
Ford Focus 1,050
Ford Mondeo 735
Ford Ranger 4X2 314
Ford Ranger 4X4 894
Ford Territory 779
Ford Transit 117
Ford Transit Bus 6
Ford Transit C/C 22
TOTAL 7,602 up 6.4% on same period last yr

I think my next comment has gone past unnoticed by all.. In a market that is down 1.6%, Ford was up 6.4%.. This means increased market share for the first time I can remember in many, many, many months!!

Also, Mondeo at 750 uints is great... Are we finally seening the Falcon Wagon buyers getting into the Wagon Mondeo??

[RATT]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I think my next comment has gone past unnoticed by all.. In a market that is down 1.6%, Ford was up 6.4%.. This means increased market share for the first time I can remember in many, many, many months!!

Also, Mondeo at 750 uints is great... Are we finally seening the Falcon Wagon buyers getting into the Wagon Mondeo??

Agreed Joe.

We need the positive in this as Falcon isn't the only car Ford sell. Ranger is outselling Colorado, Mondeo is firing, Fiesta is kicking goals. A fair amount of positives in my opinion.

[The Snout]

Epica 77 . That's a big 'no' from the public.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Epica 77 . That's a big 'no' from the public.

I think Epica is finished till the new one rolls in...


Commodore is killing Falcon... 2257 more Commodores then falcon

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Commodore is killing Falcon... 2257 more Commodores then falcon

Aussie Produced:

Commodore: 3829
Falcon+Ute+Territory: 2942

A bit closer.

Does this Commodore figure include the ute?

Will increase in disparity when Cruze goes local.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by JG34JA

Aussie Produced:

Commodore: 3829
Falcon+Ute+Territory: 2942

A bit closer.

Does this Commodore figure include the ute?

Will increase in disparity when Cruze goes local.

Nope you missed ute and caprice...

Holden Utility 4X2 814
Holden Caprice 168
Holden Commodore 3,829

Total 4811

Fords 1 kill program is finally starting to catch up with them, no wagon, no Fairlane... Holden would be starting to profit from VE now, its over 4 years old and is pretty much the same car as it was in 2006... All the R&D would be paid for.

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Nope you missed ute and caprice...

Holden Utility 4X2 814
Holden Caprice 168
Holden Commodore 3,829

Total 4811

Fords 1 kill program is finally starting to catch up with them, no wagon, no Fairlane... Holden would be starting to profit from VE now, its over 4 years old and is pretty much the same car as it was in 2006... All the R&D would be paid for.

Ah, cheers. I tend to agree with you about the culling and its impact, too. GM-H should do some pretty healthy volume with Cruze ofshoots + VE variants...

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

I think Epica is finished till the new one rolls in...


Commodore is killing Falcon... 2257 more Commodores then falcon

Did a bit of a small round trip out of Melb and back on Tuesday, say 300km total and I was really surprised at the number of new Commodore sedans and wagons in the carparks of different government "type" bodies such as SES, Fire etc...all signed up etc...I counted 5 in the newish emergency services precinct at Pakenham alone.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Did a bit of a small round trip out of Melb and back on Tuesday, say 300km total and I was really surprised at the number of new Commodore sedans and wagons in the carparks of different government "type" bodies such as SES, Fire etc...all signed up etc...I counted 5 in the newish emergency services precinct at Pakenham alone.

You would have to wonder what sort of prices Holden are offering offshoots of Victorian Government departments to get these sales. Otherwise you have to look at the other facts-

Fords supplier vicinity would be alot denser/closer than Holdens (ie alot of Holden supplies, especiallyTier 3, come via melbourne), and Ford have the obvious advantage in that it doesnt have to cart a car 700 kilomtres to its customer.

Whats the logic of a government thats expouses greeness, and yet gets a sedan delivered from 700 kilomtres away, when one is made within 20 kilometres of it (and even closer when you consider Toyota).

The Victorian government creates electricity from non renewable resources, sends it to Ford (210km away) , Toyota (200 km away) and GM (920 kilomtres away), and then decides to buy cars from Holden, which require (560 litres/8 cars) 70 litres per car to get it back to Melbourne. And then you have the Ex premier of Victoria asking the Feds to set up a fund to promote a green car initiative.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

You would have to wonder what sort of prices Holden are offering offshoots of Victorian Government departments to get these sales. Otherwise you have to look at the other facts-

Fords supplier vicinity would be alot denser/closer than Holdens (ie alot of Holden supplies, especiallyTier 3, come via melbourne), and Ford have the obvious advantage in that it doesnt have to cart a car 700 kilomtres to its customer.

Whats the logic of a government thats expouses greeness, and yet gets a sedan delivered from 700 kilomtres away, when one is made within 20 kilometres of it (and even closer when you consider Toyota).

The Victorian government creates electricity from non renewable resources, sends it to Ford (210km away) , Toyota (200 km away) and GM (920 kilomtres away), and then decides to buy cars from Holden, which require (560 litres/8 cars) 70 litres per car to get it back to Melbourne. And then you have the Ex premier of Victoria asking the Feds to set up a fund to promote a green car initiative.

To be honest it wouldn't worry them, it comes down to what the car costs to buy then sell after the lease period.. Transports just a factor the manufacturer has to cover...

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Did a bit of a small round trip out of Melb and back on Tuesday, say 300km total and I was really surprised at the number of new Commodore sedans and wagons in the carparks of different government "type" bodies such as SES, Fire etc...all signed up etc...I counted 5 in the newish emergency services precinct at Pakenham alone.

Not suprising.. Holden has a better fleet program and having Sedan Wagon LWB allows large fleets a variety of cars from the 1 manfacturer, eg. caprice for Managment, sedans for lower management and wagons for rep's.

People think that killing the wagon / Fairlane was what potentially saved Falcon, but Ford haven't just lost Fairlane and wagon sales, they have lost sedans and ute sales by axing them too!

I can't see how they can profit from such low numbers when you factor in fixed overhead costs and R&D finance cost, I know it comes back to the old profit verse volume on each vehicle but at the end of the day I think they need to get their acts together sooner then later!

[whales]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Epica 77 . That's a big 'no' from the public.

Falcon 1572 looks like a big no from the public too

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by whales

Falcon 1572 looks like a big no from the public too

Stick a fork in it, she's done.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by The Snout

Stick a fork in it, she's done.

How so?

What is the break even number? What are Fords financials like? What has Ford management told you that is so bleak?

With a statement like that surely you are privy to something we are not?

Its a bad month, most where down, it happens. You dont shut the doors based on one month of bad sales when surely management can predict that with lack of presence in the market that it was going to happen.

Things will get better, but in the mean time people preaching of failure will only hurt the cause.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by Polyal

How so?

What is the break even number? What are Fords financials like? What has Ford management told you that is so bleak?

With a statement like that surely you are privy to something we are not?

Its a bad month, most where down, it happens. You dont shut the doors based on one month of bad sales when surely management can predict that with lack of presence in the market that it was going to happen.

Things will get better, but in the mean time people preaching of failure will only hurt the cause.

Are you living in denial? How will Ford Australia be able to obtain approval from Dearborn to invest money in another Falcon when volumes are so low?

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by Polyal

With a statement like that surely you are privy to something we are not?

That something would be reality.

1100 sales in Jan, 1500 in Feb. Falcon is a faithful old dog suffering and slowly dying. Time to be kind, load up the shotty and blow the mother away.

LPG and Ecoboost is the last to late throw of the dice. Most seem to hope a miracle will happen and sales will dramatically shoot up. Me ? I think it's, at best, going to halt a further slide in sales and nothing more, marking time until 2015ish and Falcon's replacement.

[GS608]

Can't be good..ute sales down lower than commo ute. Territory sales down, Captiva is almost matching it (expected though with the new one this year) and Falcon sales low like usual