Ford Explorer ruled out for Oz

[Road_Warrior]

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2011...t-for-oz-24445

words - Ken Gratton
Why Aussie consumers won't see the latest generation of the US market Ford Explorer here

Here's what Australians want from SUVs: torque for towing, a balance of power and economy, a mix of comfort and safety.

It seems that actual offroad ability is lowly ranked on the scale of buying criteria. That's the supporting argument for Ford developing the diesel-engined Territory in both rear- and all-wheel drive forms. Towing is believed to be more important to Australians than ultimate bush-bashing credentials.

Beth Donovan, Ford Australia's VP of Marketing, Sales and Service, spoke with the Carsales Network during the launch of the new Territory. Is the Territory enough to meet all that the market demands of a medium SUV these days, we asked? What about bringing in the Explorer from the US, as Ford Australia did in the past -- to complement the local SUV range?

It's Donovan's view that "Explorer and Territory are different vehicles", but perhaps they're not different enough. The new-for-2011 Explorer is now built on a monocoque platform and its ground clearance (193mm) is closer to the Territory's than the 226mm clearance of earlier Explorer models sold here.

In effect, the Explorer -- still wearing the Ford badge, but without the Territory's excellent diesel or iconic petrol six -- would sink without trace in the pond that is the VFACTS medium SUV segment... or perhaps be swallowed whole by two other big fish in the pond, both Toyotas.

As it is, the locally-designed and manufactured Territory has what it takes to counter Toyota's two medium SUV models, the Kluger and the Prado, Donovan argues.

"I look at it this way: I think Territory can take them on, both -- and we've actually done a lot of work on that. Kluger is 100 per cent petrol and Prado is 20 per cent petrol and 80 per cent diesel."

Territory now offers what Ford judges to be the right balance of refinement and drivetrain technology to answer both Toyota SUVs in the marketplace. Donovan revealed that some of the market research conducted during the development of the new Territory involved current Prado owners.

"We've done a lot of research obviously, in the development of this vehicle," she said. "And the Prado customers that we've had in research, a lot of them have said 'I would definitely consider [the Territory]'."

It's been known since Ford introduced the original SX Territory in 2004 that roughly half the sales are rear-drive only.

"[In] The overall industry... many people will say: 'I only go offroad three or four times a year, but I still buy a 4x4'. The same thing's true for towing. People just want the capability..." Donovan further explained. "In this segment... they buy more than what they really need all the time."

According to Donovan, the 2011 Explorer has moved closer to the Territory concept as a consequence of Ford's platform rationalisation strategy, 'One Ford'. Minor variations on vehicle concepts -- such as the Territory-like Taurus X -- have been dropped altogether or conceptually merged with other similar vehicles.

"What ended up happening [in North America]... we had several two- and three-row 'crossovers' -- they're a cross between an SUV and a car, which is what Territory is," Donovan explained. "We had several of those in our portfolio and we said: 'we can still give the customer what they want -- and we don't need to have it across all these nameplates'."

"With Territory," Donovan continued, "I would argue that [it] and Mondeo wagon -- they get the job done, in Australia, for those same reasons. They can take people, they've got a lot of utility in them and they've got excellent technology..."

That utility includes the ability to tow, but not necessarily tow offroad. For that, buyers who want to tow caravans and boat trailers into the bush are probably going to pass by the Ford dealer on the way to the Toyota dealer or possibly the nearest Chrysler-Jeep dealer, where they can pick up the new Jeep Grand Cherokee.

Jeep has priced the latest model of its luxury SUV to play havoc with Territory sales -- although that's yet to happen. Donovan doesn't consider the Jeep represents a threat to the Territory.

"No, honestly I don't," she said. "We benchmarked who the market leaders are -- and that's what we've targeted."

We expect Ford will still enjoy a price advantage against the Grand Cherokee when Chrysler introduces the diesel version in coming months, but the Jeep will test Donovan's assertion that SUV buyers don't necessarily 'need' four-wheel drive.

Interesting comments there. Although I would have liked to have seen the new Exploder's top hat and tech placed on the Territory's platform and running gear

[chevypower]

So is there going to be a One Ford strategy or not?

[Poetic Justice]

I'd say this is marketing fluff given that from what I've read in various plates, T6 should spawn it's own SUV.

Otherwise, they're shooting themselves in the foot by not making it at least available in small numbers.

See what Toyota have done with the FJ Cruiser. It's not expected to sell massive numbers, but it is still an option.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by chevypower

So is there going to be a One Ford strategy or not?

I would say yes, but in different guises. I think One Ford was primarily aimed at mass market operations where the duplication of cars in such large volumes was just silly. Euro Focus and US Focus being a prime example. Alan Mulaly has said before to Ford Australia that "if One Ford doesn't work for you, don't do it". But its clear that FoA has to toe the line as well, possibly to a lesser extent. This is where global powertrains and electronics comes into play instead of Australia-only stuff (like the I6 engine).

Originally Posted by SCUD

I'd say this is marketing fluff given that from what I've read in various plates, T6 should spawn it's own SUV.

Otherwise, they're shooting themselves in the foot by not making it at least available in small numbers.

See what Toyota have done with the FJ Cruiser. It's not expected to sell massive numbers, but it is still an option.

But the Explorer is nothing like the FJ Cruiser, and with the Territory and T6 SUV the bases will be covered. Add the new Escape/Kuga to that mix and they won't need a silly niche vehicle like the FJ Cruiser.

[Gobes32]

Very true analysis, ask any retiree what 4wd they are looking at and 70-80% will say Landcruiser/Patrol. Those two have the runs on the board and it's no good trying to attack their share of the market with an inferior product. Ford have spent a lot of money on T6 to take on the Navara/Hilux duopoly, you can bet your bottom dollar this will extend to the large 4wd wagon segment when they have a suitable product.

[snowcone]

I like the look and finish of the Territory, but I tow a very heavy van and need to use use my V8 Explorer for that.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by snowcone

I like the look and finish of the Territory, but I tow a very heavy van and need to use use my V8 Explorer for that.

TDI Terry should do that no worries I would have thought.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by snowcone

I like the look and finish of the Territory, but I tow a very heavy van and need to use use my V8 Explorer for that.

The new Explorer has no V8 and no ladder chassis.

[jpd80]

What motor company in their right mind would announce a replacement vehicle when an updated existing vehicle is just about to be released......

Amazing how soon people for get about the T6 SUv that's being developed,
that adds another dimension to Ford's off road SUv capability and leaves
the Soft roaf Territory/Explorer question wide open.

[Franco Cozzo]

I quite like the look of the new Explorer. Personally, death to the Territory, all hail Explorer.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

I quite like the look of the new Explorer. Personally, death to the Territory, all hail Explorer.

Thats just unaustralian, a Tezza will run rings around the Explorer. But the Explorer will be better package with gizmos etc.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Thats just unaustralian, a Tezza will run rings around the Explorer. But the Explorer will be better package with gizmos etc.

As I said I reckon the Explorer top hat on the Territory platform would be a total winner. Especially with the Explorer's gizmos and the Territory's powertrains

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

But the Explorer will be better package with gizmos etc.

Thats right, I spent 99% of my time in the car inside the thing, I like flashy gizmos.

Why are the Falcon and Territory so basic gizmo wise for $40K cars? They don't even have HID lights either.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Thats right, I spent 99% of my time in the car inside the thing, I like flashy gizmos.

Why are the Falcon and Territory so basic gizmo wise for $40K cars? They don't even have HID lights either.

That is funny, last time I looked HID lights where not on the inside of cars!!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself!!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is funny, last time I looked HID lights where not on the inside of cars!!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself!!

Maybe he is confusing them with Neon's?

[Polyal]

So you have already sat inside a new Territory? What model Explorer are you comparing it too? When did you go to the US to sample there goods?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So you have already sat inside a new Territory? What model Explorer are you comparing it too? When did you go to the US to sample there goods?

No, but I've sat in the current model and previous model Territory when I stripped it out completely and helped convert it to a Mica Paramedic unit. The seats are comfortable, but the dash is covered in a hectare of hard, cheap plastics, the stereo sucks, the roof lining kinks and is damaged easily when installing a cargo barrier, the rear plastic footwell trims always break when you remove them, it has this little plastic square on the bottom and the trim won't fit back together properly once you take them off, its a 50/50 chance of getting the trims off without breaking their clips they use. On the door pillar, that rubber trim on the door pilars on each side is hard to remove and the clips will snap on it most of the time.

I've seen lots of the sealer they use on the body, thats caked all over the place.

I've been into a dealership and sat in the Falcon and played with its monochrome screen and crappy stereo.

I've seen pictures of the new Territory and its screen, which is a step in the right direction, but it still pales in comparison to the MyFord system in the USA offerings.

Personally, I only care a little bit on how the car drives, its all about its creature comforts for me.

Originally Posted by Joe5619

That is funny, last time I looked HID lights where not on the inside of cars!!!
Sorry, couldn't help myself!!

But they help me see out of it at night time

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Personally, I only care a little bit on how the car drives, its all about its creature comforts for me.

That's interesting Big Damo. I must be the opposite, I love the way a car drives and rides, its physical seating comfort and cabin comfort, but spend very little time on the electronic creature comforts. I guess many people make a market.

[4.0i_SiX]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Personally, I only care a little bit on how the car drives, its all about its creature comforts for me.

As much as I disagree with you. I cant disagree that this is EXACTLY how most people feel these days. Particularly if they are not a car nut. They will drive their crapbox korean garbage that handles like a shopping trolley and gives you spinal injuries everytime you drive more than 30mins because of the crappy seats and terrible suspension setup. But as long as it has gadgets and gizmo's to distract them from the fact that they bought a steaming pile of dung........They will sell like hotcakes. Ignorance is bliss I guess, Are you listen ford? more gadgets

[Blue_XR]

It's funny how we are all Ford enthusiasts but there is so much this car is better than that.....blah blah blah. I think that the Territory and Explorer (the new one) are good vehicles and would complement each other in the show room. One is a medium size SUV while the other is closer to a full size.

As much as we might go on about gizmos and driving experiences consumers vote with their wallets and they want these things. If they didn't car companies wouldn't be spending the millions of dollars designing these mod cons into their ranges.

Also there is no point in talking about driving experiences when no one here has driven the new explorer. Seeing as it's based on a car platform Im sure it would give a good driving experience, well as much as could be expected from a large SUV.

Go and check the ford US website, the car has a good looking interior and seems to be well designed. There is also a reason that Ford in the US are selling lots of cars.

Now, I hope that the new Territory will make an impact on the market just like it did when it first arrived. FoA need it

[Bossxr8]

I'm suprised Detroit don't just force FoA to take the Explorer, so they can kill off Falcon and Territory quicker.

I mean they keep denying them an export market so its obvious they couldn't give 2 stuffs about us down here. If they really wanted Falcon and Territory to succeed thats all they would need to do, but its the classic not made here syndrome.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'm suprised Detroit don't just force FoA to take the Explorer, so they can kill off Falcon and Territory quicker.

Let's look at that a different way:

I'm suprised the Aussie public don't just force FoA to kill off Falcon and
Territory so they can take the next Fusion/Mondeo and Edge SUV quicker.....

How close am I to the truth....

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Let's look at that a different way:

I'm suprised the Aussie public don't just force FoA to kill off Falcon and
Territory so they can take the next Fusion/Mondeo and Edge SUV quicker.....

How close am I to the truth....

Not very, because a MCE Territory is just about to be unleashed and the Explorer is not available in RHD anyway. It is clear that some people still buy Falcon, even with its lack of fuel efficient engines, interior features and marketing. God helps those who help themselves. Sure the buyers have shied away from the Falcon, but Ford have certainly helped them!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Not very, because a MCE Territory is just about to be unleashed and the Explorer is not available in RHD anyway. It is clear that some people still buy Falcon, even with its lack of fuel efficient engines, interior features and marketing. God helps those who help themselves. Sure the buyers have shied away from the Falcon, but Ford have certainly helped them!

If Falcon goes, Territory follows and that decision is in the hands of buyers:
- Ford is praying that buyers flock back to Territory and buy lots of diesels.
- Ford is praying that buyers flock back to Falcon and buy lots of EcoLPIs.

They have tipped their hand by re-balancing the line down, they know the awful truth
Total sales for all local Fords will be about a third less than last year even with updates....

This is not good.......

SZ Territory will have to soldier on for 2-3 years no matter what happens, I didn't mention Explorer.
I said Edge and for what it's worth, the next Ford Edge should be on CD4 which would align
with Fusion/Mondeo manufacturing, having more fuel efficient platforms would be a start for FoA.

Stop trying to copy Holden and start listening to your buyers....

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'm suprised Detroit don't just force FoA to take the Explorer, so they can kill off Falcon and Territory quicker.

I mean they keep denying them an export market so its obvious they couldn't give 2 stuffs about us down here. If they really wanted Falcon and Territory to succeed thats all they would need to do, but its the classic not made here syndrome.

This is personally something that makes me angry.

However. I did read the EcoLPi article in a local paper recently... so at least they are advertising something.

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

As I said I reckon the Explorer top hat on the Territory platform would be a total winner. Especially with the Explorer's gizmos and the Territory's powertrains

Yuk. The new explorer looks terrible... it's all fat and square, with a huge fat chrome grille. And looks tarded sitting on that transverse FWD/AWD platform.

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Thats right, I spent 99% of my time in the car inside the thing, I like flashy gizmos.

Why are the Falcon and Territory so basic gizmo wise for $40K cars? They don't even have HID lights either.

They aren't that bad. What those gizmo's actually do that with Falcon and Territory... is.... work. They just work. They aren't flashy, but they're comprehensive, and give you what you need.

It's all about to change I believe though. AS Ford invests more in tech. It should filter down here as part of 'One Ford'.

And why the hell are you so Americanised?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

They aren't that bad. What those gizmo's actually do that with Falcon and Territory... is.... work. They just work. They aren't flashy, but they're comprehensive, and give you what you need.

Thats the problem, they just "work", it just doesn't do anything other than tune radio stations which it can only store 6 on each band and play music at an average quality, the stock system sucks, I don't listen to my music very loud, but I like base and treble, which the Falcon and Territory pale in comparison to my Fiesta, which cost $18K and my Focus which cost $26K.

Why no colour touch screen with instant fuel consumption display, 100GB+ HDD to store your music on instead of swapping between MP3 CDs? Reverse camera, GPS and sensors which integrate with the screen etc?

Where is the heated door mirrors? That comes in handy every morning, the Fiesta has that, the Focus doesn't admittedly and either does the Territory, but the Territory is an expensive car even for a base model.

The problem with the whole car is it "just works". Everything is just "That will do" and its all over the car.

The Fiesta even came factory with separate tweeters in the front, and its the base model.

Compare that to the Commodore with its 6.5" touch screen, bluetooth integration etc.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Why no colour touch screen with instant fuel consumption display, 100GB+ HDD to store your music on instead of swapping between MP3 CDs? Optional reverse camera and sensors which integrate with the screen etc?

Where is the heated door mirrors? That comes in handy every morning, the Fiesta has that, the Focus doesn't admittedly and either does the Territory, but the Territory is an expensive car even for a base model.

The problem with the whole car is it "just works". Everything is just "That will do" and its all over the car.

The Fiesta even came factory with separate tweeters in the front, and its the base model.

Compare that to the Commodore with its 6.5" touch screen, bluetooth integration etc.

You're joking right? The new Territory has all this crap plus more! And heated mirrors...? The reason your Fiesta has them is because its a Euro market car and it sure as hell needs them in Europe. I don't really think they're relevant in Australia somehow, even on top of Mt Buller

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

You're joking right? The new Territory has all this crap plus more! And heated mirrors...? The reason your Fiesta has them is because its a Euro market car and it sure as hell needs them in Europe. I don't really think they're relevant in Australia somehow, even on top of Mt Buller

What I mean is current model, not "new model which hasn't been released yet". If the new Territory has all this and more, then awesome, thats a big step in the right direction.

Every winter morning I go outside and my car is covered in frost and the mirrors fogged up, hell the last few days the mirrors have been fogged up and its autumn.

The only positive I give to the Territory is its awesome air conditioning.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Thats the problem, they just "work", it just doesn't do anything other than tune radio stations which it can only store 6 on each band and play music at an average quality, the stock system sucks, I don't listen to my music very loud, but I like base and treble, which the Falcon and Territory pale in comparison to my Fiesta, which cost $18K and my Focus which cost $26K.

Why no colour touch screen with instant fuel consumption display, 100GB+ HDD to store your music on instead of swapping between MP3 CDs? Reverse camera, GPS and sensors which integrate with the screen etc?

Where is the heated door mirrors? That comes in handy every morning, the Fiesta has that, the Focus doesn't admittedly and either does the Territory, but the Territory is an expensive car even for a base model.

The problem with the whole car is it "just works". Everything is just "That will do" and its all over the car.

The Fiesta even came factory with separate tweeters in the front, and its the base model.

Compare that to the Commodore with its 6.5" touch screen, bluetooth integration etc.

To me. That is better than flash. Flash usually doesn't work properly, has annoying or useless functions... and fails more often than works. By keeping it simple, but effective.... Ford shows that they put thought into their vehicles.

And why does the car need a HDD? Falcon's and Terri's have had iPod integration for years now. And every man and his dog has an iPod. Which is essentially a large HDD with some basic software.... but it's portable, and something less than can break in the car.

Would you want to put up with the hassles of a HDD corruption/malfunction in your car, and have Ford spend half the day ripping your dash apart to fix. And then reinstall all your music again? I wouldn't.

So have a little faith... that Ford know how to build a car.... and know what's important, more than yourself and I.

Originally Posted by Blue_XR

So I'm guessing you have sat inside the new model then?

No. Don't have to. I know immediately that it will be the American product it is. The seats will be comfy, but the plastics, hard, and not put together all that well. As some U.S. scribblers have mentioned. And they're used to it.

[Ben73]

I'd like to see a new Exploder. I like the previous model explorer and was concidering get a v8 one.


Is the Grand Cherokee really a Territory competitor?

I have always seen them as a cheaper Discovery or Range Rover. An offroad-able luxury vehicle that will rarely go off road.

Territory I see is more of a raised family wagon designed for city use only.

But I can see how the New V6 GC could tempt buyers away from the terri.

TBH if I wanted a family 4x4, I would get the GC and not even look at the terri.