Road Rule Theory

[buddha]

Just something I want to put out there for discussion, I have a theory about the road rules which seems to make sense to me, but I'm keen for anyone to point out flaws in it.

I realise the road rules are far from perfect, but my theory is this:

If 100% of road users, followed 100% of the road rules, 100% of the time, we could zero out the road toll.

What do you think?

[XDV800]

Impossible. Road rules do not factor in the natural surroundings like wildlife, damaged tarmac due to weather, invariable mechanical failures, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc...
Not forgetting the all time biggest yet completely ignored factor - human imcompetence

Silly topic. Just going to turn into a fracas

[Yaw]

It's a nice thought but have you ever seen a copy of the road rules?
Apart from the learner book you get to pass the test.

The following link is what the actual road rules look like. Not many people will be able to remember the entire 388 pages.

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LE...ntOpRURR09.pdf

[kenz]

What are road rules

[buddha]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

Impossible. Road rules do not factor in the natural surroundings like wildlife, damaged tarmac due to weather, invariable mechanical failures, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc...
Not forgetting the all time biggest yet completely ignored factor - human imcompetence

Silly topic. Just going to turn into a fracas

The theory in itself requires complete competence, because it is based on the idea of perfect road users. It is not completely impossible, but massively unlikely, I will admit.

I've just set out on a couple of occasions to take a drive and follow every applicable road rule to the letter, not always easy, but definitely possible on most trips. On each of those occasions, I have arrived at my destination relaxed and happy, and I can't help but think that the roads would be a much nicer place if my theory could be put into action.

This is where we all join hands and sing Kumbaya ...

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by yzfr101

Impossible. Road rules do not factor in the natural surroundings like wildlife, damaged tarmac due to weather, invariable mechanical failures, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc...
Not forgetting the all time biggest yet completely ignored factor - human imcompetence

Silly topic. Just going to turn into a fracas

Exactly right.

It just feeds into that modern Workplace Health And Safety theory that says "there's no such thing as an accident". They also say "all accidents can be prevented".
In theory, yes, I suppose they can...given perfect 20/20 hindsight and a time machine.
While we have fallible humans in charge of machinery, which is also fallible, we will have accidents, no exceptions.

The absolute best you can do is that you can try to minimise accidents, you can minimise the effects when accidents happen, but you cannot in any way eliminate them happening.

For far too long, we have been assured (sometimes openly but usually it's just implied), that all you have to do is stick to the speed limit and you'll never have an accident...no need to bother yourself concentrating on the task at hand, no need to try and become a better driver...phht, forget that, just keep to an arbitrary number on your speedo no matter the conditions and you'll be perfectly safe.

If everybody stuck to every road rule, I would lay money on accidents being about the same.

You are also assuming that the vast majority of drivers don't stick to the rules, when in fact the vast majority of drivers do stick to the rules most of the time.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by buddha

Just something I want to put out there for discussion, I have a theory about the road rules which seems to make sense to me, but I'm keen for anyone to point out flaws in it.

I realise the road rules are far from perfect, but my theory is this:

If 100% of road users, followed 100% of the road rules, 100% of the time, we could zero out the road toll.

What do you think?

So following road rules will prevent mechanical failure, tyre failure, animals running across the road, trees falling, weather incidents etc etc?

Do you really believe that every accident is due to not following road rules?

Are you serious?

The real world is not like playstation......

[buddha]

Originally Posted by flappist

So following road rules will prevent mechanical failure, tyre failure, animals running across the road, trees falling, weather incidents etc etc?

Do you really believe that every accident is due to not following road rules?

Having worked in vehicle insurance claims, I would say 95% of accidents could have been avoided had people known and followed the rules that applied to their particular situation.

I would include most weather incidents and a fair percentage of wildlife strikes (as opposed to animals that are supposed to be restrained) amongst those, because the expectation is that people drive to the conditions. Just look at how many people refuse to slow down (or worse, actually speed up) in wet conditions, for example.

At the end of the day, my conclusion is that the theory is possible, but massively unlikely without a general attitude change by all road users.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by buddha

Just look at how many people refuse to slow down (or worse, actually speed up) in wet conditions, for example.

.

I have never met someone who Speeds up in bad weather.
Has anyone ever actually said that to you?

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I have never met someone who Speeds up in bad weather.
Has anyone ever actually said that to you?

Do you drive on the roads?

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Do you drive on the roads?

They probably drive the same speed all the time no matter what the weather is.

Just look at how many people refuse to slow down (or worse, actually speed up) in wet conditions

I was talking about driving FASTER in the wet, like the OP stated

Whoever puts the most wins right? That's how forums work I believe

[FgNewbie]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I have never met someone who Speeds up in bad weather.
Has anyone ever actually said that to you?

Nice to meet you

edit: I had to speed up or I wouldn't have been able to get the truck sideways

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by buddha

I would include most weather incidents and a fair percentage of wildlife strikes (as opposed to animals that are supposed to be restrained) amongst those, because the expectation is that people drive to the conditions. Just look at how many people refuse to slow down (or worse, actually speed up) in wet conditions, for example.

At the end of the day, my conclusion is that the theory is possible, but massively unlikely without a general attitude change by all road users.

While in theory, behind the desk in an insurance company office this might sound plausible, its not the case in the real world.

Explain to me how someone can drive to conditions with regards to hitting a stray roo or a stray bull/cow/horse in the middle of nowhere. This is in theory possible to do at anytime or any place because the whole country is scattered with them. Obviously, in a country area it is more likely. Does this mean that you drive around at 20kph just in case if you don't live in a capital city? Is this what you mean by driving to conditions? As I said, great theory but not quite acheveable in reality. Not if you actually want to get anywhere!

I also want to know if you have actually driven on country roads, or is your experience of driving limited to feeways and arterial roads around a large city?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

While in theory, behind the desk in an insurance company office this might sound plausible, its not the case in the real world.

Explain to me how someone can drive to conditions with regards to hitting a stray roo or a stray bull/cow/horse in the middle of nowhere. This is in theory possible to do at anytime or any place because the whole country is scattered with them. Obviously, in a country area it is more likely. Does this mean that you drive around at 20kph just in case if you don't live in a capital city? Is this what you mean by driving to conditions? As I said, great theory but not quite acheveable in reality. Not if you actually want to get anywhere!

I also want to know if you have actually driven on country roads, or is your experience of driving limited to feeways and arterial roads around a large city?

I believe the op would be more qualified to comment than most, just because he sits behind a desk as part of his job does not make him an idiot, as I am sure he also drives a car same as everyone else here.

On top of that he would see hundreds possibly thousands of claims showing driver breaking road rules causing accidents, and from personal experience generally when an accident occurs some road rule has generally been broken, like not give way, travel to close to stop safely, neg drive, run red light etc etc

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

On top of that he would see hundreds possibly thousands of claims showing driver breaking road rules causing accidents, and from personal experience generally when an accident occurs some road rule has generally been broken, like not give way, travel to close to stop safely, neg drive, run red light etc etc

Which has what to do with an accident involving wildlife or stray cattle?

It was the statement that was made regarding avoiding wildlife that I had a query with. How can one possibly drive to conditions in regard to cattle or wildlife? Do you know where a stray cow or a roo will pop up?Its not likely to happen all that often, so how can you prepare for it?

Have you ever had a close call with a bull in the dark of night on a country highway? Not easy to predict or allow for really!

[irish2]

Originally Posted by flappist

So following road rules will prevent mechanical failure, tyre failure, animals running across the road, trees falling, weather incidents etc etc?

Do you really believe that every accident is due to not following road rules?

Are you serious?

The real world is not like playstation......

So then Playstation has road rules?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

What is the fascination with wild life on the road, I doubt it would rate on human fatalities scale, and a situation a huge percentage of city drivers would never encounter.

So is your argument why bother following the road rules because you might be killed by a stray cow or kangaroo??? Well if it is, it's a dumb and pointless argument.

If it is not please explain to me how society would NOT benefit from following the road rules, apart from the fact that an animal might run out in front of your car, so you are saying it is pointless for every road user to drive safely and drive to conditions (like slow down when wet/fog/slippery/limited visibility/busy traffic/etc etc) as you might hit a cow regardless??? Well you might also get hit by lightening, get struck by a meteor or spontaneously combust.

Are you saying by sticking to the speed limit and hitting a cow it would not make a difference if you were going 10km slower or if you were going 10,20,30km/hr over the limit?? I am sure driving to the limit would reduce the severity of the impact with this cow that will kill us all, would increase our reaction time to stop, would give us more time to stop, would give the cow more time to move, would give us greater opportunity to avoid the impact with the cow than if you were traveling over the limit.

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

I broke the speed limit the other day , 70 in a sixty whilst changing lanes ,merging into the next lane ,safely ,then flash ,a tradies looking unit on the nature strip unmarked . I should have stood on the brakes before changing lanes ,caused a rear ender for someone ,then merge. What a blatant money grab.....and guess what -I didn't die .....still here ...liars ..

So basically you are saying you were speeding and not paying attention and you got caught....suck it up and pay your voluntuary contribution to our government, as no one else pressed the accelerator, and payed so little attention that they did not see a mobile speed camera, the ones I generally spot 100 meters before I get to them whilst traveling at the speed limit.

No one says you die as soon as you speed, but your chances do increase, if you can not get that simple concept then you should probably be off the road anyway. And hopefully now you are one step closer to catching a bus

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

What is the fascination with wild life on the road, I doubt it would rate on human fatalities scale, and a situation a huge percentage of city drivers would never encounter.

Did you read the thread? The theory is if you obey all rules all the time there will be ZERO fatalities.
Then the point put forward was random animals are unpredictable.

As many country drivers would agree kangaroos are the most popular animals to wander out from behind trees in front of fast moving cars. Now hitting a kangaroo probably won't kill you(unless it comes through your window) but some inexperienced drivers will attempt to swerve at the first sign of something on the road. Violent sudden swerving at the speed limit could easily result in loss of control and a crash.

Therefore the theory of obeying all road rules will result in zero fatalities is not valid.

[bingoTE50]

Who were you ? XB351Coupe ? Drove a GT version once in 1981 ...

Quote...
So basically you are saying you were speeding and not paying attention and you got caught....suck it up and pay your voluntuary contribution to our government, as no one else pressed the accelerator, and payed so little attention that they did not see a mobile speed camera, the ones I generally spot 100 meters before I get to them whilst traveling at the speed limit.

No one says you die as soon as you speed, but your chances do increase, if you can not get that simple concept then you should probably be off the road anyway. And hopefully now you are one step closer to catching a bus[/QUOTE]
Ahh - you have no idea of the situ . Nice assumption you made . If you really believe the Government ,the cameras save lives . BS. I have no issue paying the fine at all, I know I went over the speed limit ,not a problem,circumstantial not habitual..
I was actually using sarcasm in regards to the - every k over is a killer.

As for being better of being off the road and on a bus , who the hell do you think you, are you clown , you do not know me, or my driving history .
How much driver training have you had ? Never ever broken the speed limit ? Ever ? Not even overtaking on the open road ? You are kidding me right ...

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

Who were you ? XB351Coupe ?
Ahh - you have no idea of the situ . Nice assumption you made .

As for being better of being off the road and on a bus , who the hell do you think you, are you clown , you do not know me, or my driving history .
How much driver training have you had ? Never ever broken the speed limit ? Ever ? Not even overtaking on the open road ? You are kidding me right ...

This is an Internet forum. People jump at the first opportunity to put someone else down. Makes them feel better. They don't care about anyone else on this forum.
You Need skin like leather on the Internet. It's full of cruel people who just don't care.

I have noticed on this forum it has a bit higher rate of people who love to put other forum members down compared to other forums I am on.
Personal satisfaction I guess. Thinks it proves there point better.

I will not be surprised if I get abused for making this post.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

Ahh - you have no idea of the situ . Nice assumption you made . If you really believe the Government ,the cameras save lives . BS. I have no issue paying the fine at all, I know I went over the speed limit ,not a problem,circumstantial not habitual..

As for being better of being off the road and on a bus , who the hell do you think you, are you clown , you do not know me, or my driving history .
How much driver training have you had ? Never ever broken the speed limit ? Ever ? Not even overtaking on the open road ? You are kidding me right ...

Realistically my driver training is not relevant to your speeding habits and lack of attention whilst driving, but since you ask I am happy to tell you I have had a LOT of driver training, and have been a professional driver for over 20 years, often clocking up 1000's of km's per week. I might also tell that I play a large part in weather people get to hold a drivers license in the first place.

I never said I never broke the speed limit, but I probably did today at some point, but I realise the dangers, and I have the foresight to be aware of my surroundings especially at what is up ahead, what vehicles are parked on the side of the road, what signage is up ahead well before I get there, generally spot the speed camera warning sign well before I get there. And even if I miss the sign I general notice the brake light of cars coming on well ahead of me drawing attention to the fact that something is up (like a speed camera or police radar trap)

So generally I find that the only people who get booked by cameras are not only speeding but also not paying attention to the road up ahead, otherwise you would have seen the camera well before you get there. So eventually the cameras will add to road safety as they get the speeding AND un attentive drivers off the road. Speeding and attentive is not as bad as speeding and un attentive IMO.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by irish2

So then Playstation has road rules?

Yes....you are not allowed to play Playstation while driving......

[2011G6E]

We could reduce the road toll significantly with only a small bit of political will power...unfortunately this would be coupled with a large influx of political spending.
All major highway should be divided four lane. This alone has been estimated to reduce accidents by a massive margin simply by seperating traffic heading different directions. Every minor highway should be wide two lane with good run off areas and no massive trees alongside the highway. Rosedale Road north of Bundaberg used to have gum trees of up to two and three foot diameter less than a car width off the side of the road for long stretches. The council grew a pair and cleared them all, and despite cries from local greenies, it has become a much safer-feeling road to drive along now.

Couple all this with an intense driver training program. Make it hard...damn hard...to get a licence. Then bring in a similar system to what we train drivers have to face in our job.
Every eighteen months to two years, we have to go through a "Maintainance Of Competance" examination. Basically, we totally "re-sit our licences", and prove that we still know all the rules and still have all the skills needed, and that we are still up to scratch. If we aren't, we can be put off the rails until our skills are back up to standard.
A lot of us train drivers wonder what the roads would look like if car drivers faced the same thing...they'd be a lot emptier, I would wager.

After all, "if it only saves one life"...

The theory that if you obey the rules no fatalities will occur is fatally flawed itself by a simple piece of physics and human physiology.
Studies have shown that an impact with a solid immoveable object (truck, tree, bridge pilon, embankment, etc) at anything above 80kph is "basically unsurviveable". No matter how many airbags, no matter the crumple zones, your body just can't take a sudden deceleration of that magnitude.
Oh sure, occasionally there will be the "miracle survival story" in the news, but that is a vanishingly small chance. Usually you'll be nicely brown bread.

Also, claiming that "you won't have that impact if you follow the road rules" ignores the fact that there will always...always...be the unexpected...a blowout, a simple mechanical failure, human error, anything. Following the rules is no absolute guarantee of never coming to grief from some unforseen circumstances.

[JC]

Originally Posted by flappist

The real world is not like playstation......

How good would it be if it was? Just turn damage off, and you can do what you like.

If everyone followed the road rules, it would rid us of accidents caused by failure to obey road rules, but not the other factors as already pointed out. So it would probably halve the road toll.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by flappist

The real world is not like playstation......

It's not?

Well, that's just ruined life for a lot of people on here.

[SEZ213]

I like the concept, but I don't believe it will zero out the road toll.

As has been said, it won't zero out accidents, however, if you read through the posts, pretty clear to see that road rules aren't very well accepted, more a conspiracy theory to make us all into sheep, and never designed for safety, blah blah blah.

Apparently 99% of people in the country know better than those who've made the rules and will therefore flout whenever they get the opportunity...

Perhaps if people were a little more idealistic, than pessimistic - the world might be a better place, but that's not going to happen any time soon either.

Sorry to burst your bubble buddy.

I'm a firm believer in that if people stopped thinking about themselves for five minutes, the world might be a better place too...but that's just me being silly.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by buddha

Just something I want to put out there for discussion, I have a theory about the road rules which seems to make sense to me, but I'm keen for anyone to point out flaws in it.

I realise the road rules are far from perfect, but my theory is this:

If 100% of road users, followed 100% of the road rules, 100% of the time, we could zero out the road toll.

What do you think?

No, just no. This theory (please understand I'm not having a go at you, it's a theory that has been done before) is complete crap and is that "Toward Zero" rubbish that road safety authorities particularly here in WA have been trying to shove down our throats. It is some sort of Utopian dream concocted by academics that live inside a bubble and have less real world experience than they have university degrees. You can never hope to have a zero road toll.

Now road toll mitigation, we can talk about that...

[bingoTE50]

If we all drive at 20 km/h ,I reckon we could do it , imagine the fuel economy .

[XR6TCraig]

Originally Posted by bingoTE50

If we all drive at 20 km/h ,I reckon we could do it , imagine the fuel economy .

Imagine how much extra everything would cost if it took 4 to 5 times as long to transport goods around the country.

Imagine taking 50 hours to drive from Melbourne to Sydney instead of 10 or so.

Imagine allowing up to 4 or 5 times the amount of time to get to work.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Craiginmackay

Imagine how much extra everything would cost if it took 4 to 5 times as long to transport goods around the country.

Imagine taking 50 hours to drive from Melbourne to Sydney instead of 10 or so.

Imagine allowing up to 4 or 5 times the amount of time to get to work.

Imagine what it would be like if something cost 5 times as much and took 5 times as long as it should?

No need, just join the public service and experience it first hand........