Ford buys time on engine deadline

[music189]

hopefully ford will invest the money needed to keep the I6 going

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2578AF00240BD5

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by music189

hopefully ford will invest the money needed to keep the I6 going

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2578AF00240BD5

As much as I'd like to see it soldier on I think there are other hurdles in the way; if Falcon is given the green light it must also be aligned with the One Ford strategy, which means the V6 will be used. That's my take on it.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

As much as I'd like to see it soldier on I think there are other hurdles in the way; if Falcon is given the green light it must also be aligned with the One Ford strategy, which means the V6 will be used. That's my take on it.

This is how I see it as well; regardless of which way Ford jumps for the next gen Falcon, the I6 won't be a part of that picture.

As much as I admire the I6 and believe the Falcon and the I6 go together like peaches and cream and one is not the whole package without the other, we have to look at the realities of it.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

As much as I'd like to see it soldier on I think there are other hurdles in the way; if Falcon is given the green light it must also be aligned with the One Ford strategy, which means the V6 will be used. That's my take on it.

Sounds about right to me.

Gobes - Ford still have a glimmer of hope. Firstly, Falcon's biggest current problem is that there is only one engine. One, 'thirsty', petrol engine, when some of their most important sales were for an 'economical' LPG engine. This, when coupled to the fact that the Wagon is dead, and they struggled to get the SZ out of the gates haven't helped Ford's figures in the first half of the year. In Q3/Q4, LiLPG is back, Falcon (and Territory) are back on the Green Cars Register, and EcoBoost is just around the corner. Falcon can still make a comeback, and I think it will, if just for the fact that Falcon and Territory are available to people who could not access them before.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by music189

hopefully ford will invest the money needed to keep the I6 going

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2578AF00240BD5

Rumor is that it aready meets the standard except that emission compliance has
to be confirmed and guaranteed for 160,000 km instead of the present 100,000 km.

[Resurrection]

Ford is already investigating technology to make the I6 Euro 5 compilant. So all is not yet lost.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Ford is already investigating technology to make the I6 Euro 5 compilant. So all is not yet lost.

I wonder if they'll look into a similar system like the Honda Jazz with the 2 spark plugs per cylinder.

[spvd02]

Well there we go: it's possible. Could be one sweet engine if done properly - almost providing too much grunt (ie direct-injection) for its application.

How about:
-3.6L version for base Falcon
-4.0L version for XR6 - get rid of XR6T
-5.0 Coyote V8 for XR8

-FPV turbo 4.0L + SC 5.0L Miami.

Now that would be a nice progressive line-up

[deesun]

Originally Posted by spvd02

How about:- get rid of XR6T

How about- wash your mouth out.

How about:
-3.6L version for base Falcon
-4.0L version for XR6
- XR6T
-5.0 Coyote V8 for XR8
-FPV turbo 4.0L + SC 5.0L Miami.
Something for everyone.

[mik]

the inline 6 is a great engine, but one thing i see is the v6 has going for it is its a compact unit, should they want to make a more compact body its easier with the v motor, but if your on a good thing........

[RHR]

Get rid of the xr6t. Dont think so.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by RHR

Get rid of the xr6t. Dont think so.

i would put the xr6t into fpv. after all, you buy xr6T over an XR6 because you want performance.

[kaniSS]

Originally Posted by RHR

Get rid of the xr6t. Dont think so.

Imagine the price of current XR6T's if that happens.

[Gobes32]

Read between the lines, nothing is locked in for after 2016. If there was a new Falcon then rest assured it should have already been designed by now. Ford Australia's only hope now is that we are included in a GRWD platform and that we still manufacture a vehicle in OZ. But even the most ardent Ford fan would have to admit that it's a bit of a long shot.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Read between the lines, nothing is locked in for after 2016. If there was a new Falcon then rest assured it should have already been designed by now. Ford Australia's only hope now is that we are included in a GRWD platform and that we still manufacture a vehicle in OZ. But even the most ardent Ford fan would have to admit that it's a bit of a long shot.

Why is it people assume that the floorpan has to be the centre piece of a platform?.

With a shared Falcon / Mustang, things like structure forward of the fire wall, front suspension, engines, gearboxes, electrical systems, maybe even HVAC systems could be shared. Everything rearward of the Fire wall including rear floorpan, rear suspension, top hat, trim and glass could all be considered on the derivative side of the ledger...

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Read between the lines, nothing is locked in for after 2016. If there was a new Falcon then rest assured it should have already been designed by now. Ford Australia's only hope now is that we are included in a GRWD platform and that we still manufacture a vehicle in OZ. But even the most ardent Ford fan would have to admit that it's a bit of a long shot.

Exactly.
The "scoop" photos you used to see in old Wheels and Motor magazines used to show releases of clay mockups of cars that the factory does. Sometimes they were accurate, sometimes not. I remember the XD being shown as a concept back when XC's were te car of the day. same with VN's being shown in mock-up form way back when VL's were only just being released to the market.

Whatever we will be driving in 2015/2016, rest assured it's just about in production-finalised detail on a drawing board somewhere.

[Gobes32]

I have always hoped that Mustang and Falcon could share a chassis and have different top hats, much like Commodore and Camaro.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I have always hoped that Mustang and Falcon could share a chassis and have different top hats, much like Commodore and Camaro.

The way to do it is with sharing of systems and having all the hardpoints the same, but you can do this whilst still having completely different body shells.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

I have always hoped that Mustang and Falcon could share a chassis and have different top hats....

Yeah, well, that's what's going to happen.
It won't stop the haters, though.

[Bobman]

Love the speculators but I still believe the I6 will continue past 2016...

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by Bobman

Love the speculators but I still believe the I6 will continue past 2016...

I don't see how it would be viable, especially if it was decided that any next-gen falcon would be exported overseas.

[DanielXR8]

Article about Ford dancing around the impending Euro 5 compliance for the I6 and what that means for Falcon and Territorys future.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...2578AF00240BD5

Phased Euro 5 emissions introduction points to 2016 crunch date for Ford I6
14 June 2011
By RON HAMMERTON
FORD Australia will use breathing space provided by the phasing in of new Euro 5 anti-pollution regulations by the federal government to decide the fate of its locally made six-cylinder engine for Falcon and Territory.

The company has confirmed to GoAuto that the inline 4.0-litre engine made at Geelong, Victoria, can be upgraded to meet the new emissions standard that becomes compulsory on all new cars in November 2016, but only by investing significant time and resources.

The investment would stretch the life of the engine – and the Geelong engine plant and its 400-plus workers – until at least mid-2018, when it would face another hurdle with the introduction of the even tougher Euro 6 emissions rules.

The alternative is to make the switch to Ford Motor Co’s new 3.5-litre EcoBoost V6 that would almost certainly be imported, alongside the 2.0-litre EcoBoost four-cylinder engine destined for a facelifted Falcon in the first quarter of next year.

Ultimately, the imported V6 might be the only path open to Ford if, as widely predicted, it scraps its rear-drive home-grown Falcon platform in favour of a Taurus-based replacement in front- and all-wheel-drive configurations.

GoAuto has learnt that the Falcon/Territory platform reaches the end of the line in 2016. This would therefore be a likely time for the Falcon’s successor to switch to the new V6 engine, which is already in service overseas.

From top: Ford's Geelong engine plant, Ford Falcon, Ford Territory, Holden Cruze.

Federal industry minister Kim Carr told GoAuto recently that the future of the Geelong plant was secure “through to at least 2016”.

In the timeline for the new Euro 5/6 regulations announced at the weekend by transport minister Anthony Albanese, November 1, 2016, was a key date, marking the end of the road for Euro 4 light vehicles and the introduction of mandatory Euro 5 emissions standards on all cars, SUVs and light trucks, regardless of when they were launched.

Ford Australia public affairs director Sinead McAlary said the timing of the Euro 5 date was coincidental as far as Ford was concerned.

“It is possible to engineer our I6 engine to meet the new emissions requirements,” she said.

“However, significant time and resources would be required to do so. So, one of the advantages of the regulatory timing we have received is that we actually have the time now to work through all the options to determine if that is the right course of action to take.”

Ms McAlary said the forthcoming LPG-fuelled EcoLPI version of the I6 engine would be compliant only with current Euro 4 regulations, and would also require work to achieve the higher grading.

“And that’s one of the things we have to work on,” she said. “Again, the I6 engine is obviously the basis of the LPI system as well. So, whatever we decide to do with the I6 will affect the LPI as well.”

Asked if Ford Australia would consider making the new EcoBoost V6 at Geelong, Ms McAlary said: “That is not on the horizon at this stage, no.”

The federal government originally proposed to introduce Euro 5 emissions standards for hydrocarbons, oxides of nitrogen and particulates from 2012, with Euro 6 starting in 2016.

Now, the Euro 5 standards will be phased in, starting on November 2013 with what the government calls “core Euro 5” – a modified version of the European standard to accommodate vehicles made in Australia.

Euro 4 cars launched before that date can still be sold, at least until November 1, 2016, when “full Euro 5” kicks in for all light vehicles, regardless of when they were introduced.

Less than a year later, on July 1, 2017, the Euro 6 standard is mandatory for all new models introduced from that date, and then becomes compulsory on all new cars sold after July 1, 2018.

The timeframe has been welcomed by the industry, although with some reservations about its effectiveness (see separate story).

GM Holden and Toyota both say their locally produced models will meet the regulations, with planning afoot to upgrade Holden’s Melbourne-made Global V6 and Toyota’s all-new 2.5-litre four-cylinder Camry engine to be produced at its newly refurbished Altona factory from early next year.

Holden already makes and exports a Euro 5-compliant 2.8-litre turbo V6 version of the engine for Opel/Vauxhall’s Insignia VRX in Europe.

GM Holden director of external communications Emily Perry said Holden had already started introducing Euro 5 vehicles “ahead of the regulations”.

She said the new locally built Cruze was already Euro 5 compliant, and others would follow as Holden made it mandatory on all its vehicles, local or imported.

“So from Holden’s point of view, the Euro 5 emissions standards timeframe is appropriate for the industry to be able to adapt to those requirements,” she said.

Ms Perry declined to say if the revised LPG Commodore that the company is set to introduce later this year would make the Euro 5 grade, saying only that all Holden models would comply with the newly announced timeframe.

Likewise, she would not comment on how Holden would achieve Euro 5 standards with its V8 models, which currently run a Euro 4-compliant American-made 6.0-litre Gen 4 V8.

GM reportedly has an advanced Gen 5 V8 in the pipeline, last year announcing funding of almost $900 million to tool up for the new engine that will employ direct injection and be E85 capable.

Such an engine might be slotted into the VF Commodore due in about 2014, comfortably making the deadline.

Ford axed its 5.4-litre V8 from the standard Falcon range last year because it could not meet Euro 4, instead slotting its new Australianised supercharged ‘Miami’ 5.0-litre version of the Blue Oval’s Coyote V8 into the Ford Performance Vehicles range.

When Euro 5 arrives, Ford will need to find emissions improvement for its newly released 2.7-litre Duratorq TDCi in the Territory SUV, as that is Euro 4.

The engine – which was used in Land Rover, Jaguar, Peugeot and Citroen ranges – has been discontinued in Europe under Euro 5 rules, replaced by a new 3.0-litre engine.

In the federal government’s regulatory impact statement (RIS) on Euro 5/6 last year, an unnamed local manufacturer was said to have asked for three-and-a-half years to deliver “a Euro 5-compliant diesel version of their current petrol model to the Australian market”.

“This was for a vehicle which would be built in Australia with an imported diesel engine,” it said.

[Falc'man]

repost
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11334027

[EgoFG]

a V6 or V8 could go in anywhere you put the I6

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

a V6 or V8 could go in anywhere you put the I6

Integrating the V6 in addition to the I6 would cost a fair bit of money, since you'd probably have to do all the crash testing again in addition to the engineering.

However, the new Ford V6's are as powerful or more powerful then the I6, and the upgrade to the higher Euro emissions levels will be funded across multiple platforms unlike the I6 which is Falcon/Territory only.

I just can't see how they could justify upgrading the I6 post 2016 when they have much more modern engines available such as the Duratec & Ecoboost range.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

Integrating the V6 in addition to the I6 would cost a fair bit of money

quite possibly, thei4 seems to be a lot more expensive and tme consuming than I would have guessed - but I dont believe that engine options are currently crash tested on Australian made cars.

[SpoolMan]

Threads merged

[vztrt]

They can't decide on the engine until they decide if the Falcon will live on and in what form.

The I6 can go E5 but is it viable, how much government money is needed to keep it alive? Could the I6 go more global, its a good engine but were could it fit in. The 3.5L from the states might be a more cost effective option and would open up money to be used on other parts of the car.

T6, LPG and FG2 will be big indicators on how the Falcon (ute and Terri as well) will go in the future.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by vztrt

They can't decide on the engine until they decide if the Falcon will live on and in what form.

The I6 can go E5 but is it viable, how much government money is needed to keep it alive? Could the I6 go more global, its a good engine but were could it fit in. The 3.5L from the states might be a more cost effective option and would open up money to be used on other parts of the car.

T6, LPG and FG2 will be big indicators on how the Falcon (ute and Terri as well) will go in the future.

The RWD 3.7 V6 is punching out over 225 Kw and around 380 nm of torque
and coupled to a Ford built copy of the ZF tranny...

As good as it is the 190 Kw I-6 wouldn't see which way it went,
it would even scare the ever livin' out of the Camaro's SIDI 3.6 V6

[Rastas]

I'd say the I6 would still have a life past 2015 if only to power a falcon ute , wich i doubt will be included in one fords falcon replacement.