Key Barrel weakness - What has Ford done?

tweeked · 17-01-2012, 11:25 AM

The last two new Fords I have bought, a 2004 GT and a 2005 Territory Ghia have both fallen foul of the ignition key gremlin. This is now becoming one of the most common issues with the B Series and Territory. The problem with the issue is the cost of repair - around $1500. It seams to be the old 10 cent part causing the problem.

Is anyone aware if Ford has addressed this weakness from FG on?

I am looking at buying new again but this is enough to scare me away from a new Ford if they think that since it normally happens outside the warranty period (about 5 yrs seems to be when they start to go) that it is acceptable.

ps - I am going to have a look at the "recrimp fix" listed in the B Series area to see if i can fix myself.

RHR · 17-01-2012, 12:10 PM

So what actually occurs?

My poor XF · 17-01-2012, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RHR

So what actually occurs?

This, must admit this is the first I have heard of this issue.

tweeked · 17-01-2012, 12:24 PM

The key loses it spring back mechanism, so it stays slightly in the crank position. This means your aircon and windows dont work, and a brake warning symbol appears on the dash.

Many people that have it do not realise it is the key, and suspect a fuse or something similar. You need to move the key back and forward to have it in the right position so the car behave normally. I have been doing this with the GT for a year or so. But the Ex WIfe is selling the Territory, and it is apperently a roadworthy item.

Qwerty321 · 11-01-2016, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

The key loses it spring back mechanism, so it stays slightly in the crank position. This means your aircon and windows dont work, and a brake warning symbol appears on the dash.

Many people that have it do not realise it is the key, and suspect a fuse or something similar. You need to move the key back and forward to have it in the right position so the car behave normally. I have been doing this with the GT for a year or so. But the Ex WIfe is selling the Territory, and it is apperently a roadworthy item.

My fairlane does the same thing. Not going to call it an issue though, just a mild inconvenience.

Joe5619 · 17-01-2012, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

This is now becoming one of the most common issues with the B Series and Territory.

Sorry, what information do you have at hand, that allows you to make such a statement??

Feathers · 17-01-2012, 12:25 PM

I've never heard of this either. Certainly hasn't been an issue for me, and my XR is turning 8 this year.

galaxy xr8 · 17-01-2012, 12:38 PM

Are you sure it is a design fault or miss use over time, I don't want to say that you have treated your vehicle badly but it could be a case of some people that just jump into their vehicle in a rush at times and forcefully put the key in the ignition and turn awkwardly without realising the damage and over time this could be the cause ?.

mik · 17-01-2012, 12:39 PM

did you try lubeing the lock? not saying this is the case with you but some people do have half a kilo of keys hanging off the ignition key, another reason ignition locks fail.

tweeked · 17-01-2012, 01:17 PM

If you do a search you will see there is at least half a dozen mentioned on this site alone. FTG auto parts a well aware of the problem and sell whole column assemblies to fix it. And I dont think it is misuse, never had it on any other cars I have owned, the Teritory is my ex wifes, i dont drive it, and anyway, mine is an FPV, you just tun the key to on, and push the button to start so there was no way I was bashing the lock around

Some reports have had the entire barrel mechanism falling out the opposite side of the lock due to the crimping that holds it in failing. Some have reported you can just repair this manually yourself without buying parts. I will look at this next weekend.

tweeked · 17-01-2012, 01:23 PM

Some other threads where it is brought up.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11354365

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ight=ba+barrel

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ight=ba+barrel

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ight=ba+barrel

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ight=ba+barrel

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ight=ba+barrel

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ight=ba+barrel

And the one with the pics and a fix

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...ight=ba+barrel

aussie muscle · 17-01-2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

and a fix

Thanks for pointing it out, tweeked

**Mechan1k** · 17-01-2012, 01:25 PM

Have seen a number of posts on here ... moreso for the B-series where the key doesn't return from Crank ... and sometimes where the ingition barrel fails completely and the vehicle doesn't start (resulting in a completely new steering column as the barrel/ignition module is integrated.)

Kryton · 17-01-2012, 01:50 PM

Sounds more like a Commodore issue - of which is is very common.
Cant say ive heard of it at all with the Fords till today - and my BA has done 230000km as well.

Lightning Strike GT · 17-01-2012, 02:04 PM

You are not overloading the key chain with a dozen keys a bottle opener and some other stuff - that will put pressure on the barrel with the weight of this

tweeked · 17-01-2012, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightning Strike GT

You are not overloading the key chain with a dozen keys a bottle opener and some other stuff - that will put pressure on the barrel with the weight of this

Nup - just the FPV starter pendant and the keys

Falc'man · 17-01-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

The last two new Fords I have bought, a 2004 GT and a 2005 Territory Ghia have both fallen foul of the ignition key gremlin. This is now becoming one of the most common issues with the B Series and Territory. The problem with the issue is the cost of repair - around $1500. It seams to be the old 10 cent part causing the problem.

Is anyone aware if Ford has addressed this weakness from FG on?

I am looking at buying new again but this is enough to scare me away from a new Ford if they think that since it normally happens outside the warranty period (about 5 yrs seems to be when they start to go) that it is acceptable.

ps - I am going to have a look at the "recrimp fix" listed in the B Series area to see if i can fix myself.

Hi Jon, does this answer your question?

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...43&postcount=8

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

Quote:

Originally Posted by EB92

I was of the understanding that the BF ignition assembly is an updated design
on the BA and can be repaired with a new/replacement ignition assembly
rather than the full column ? Can anybody confirm ?

BF onward, with the 'flat' keys rather than the Tibbe style 'knobbly' keys are fine.

Cheers
Russ

tweeked · 17-01-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Hi Jon, does this answer your question?

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...43&postcount=8

Cool - as long as they have updated the design I am happy

Olbucko · 17-01-2012, 03:58 PM

http://www.fordforums.com.au/vbporta...rticle&id=1345

This post, with pictures, posted last year shows step by step how to repair a broken ignition switch in a Territory.

XARATE · 17-01-2012, 05:12 PM

As an auto electrician i can confirm it is a common issue. In the past 12 months ive have had 9 customers experience the problem, its only recently that i have worked out how to repair them (as shown in my thread that is linked above)
The issue causeing the failure isnt the weight of the keys. Its the ignition switch failing not the barrel, rather its an inadequet crimp holding the rear of the igntion switch in.
It is now standard in our workshop the tighten the crimp on all ba/bf falcons and territorys when in the workshop. It take less then 5 mins and requires a hammer, pin punch and screwdriver

kenz · 17-01-2012, 05:35 PM

yea I had this key barrel problem on my BAII. Decided not to go the $1000 option from ford or however much it is but just got one from FTG for a couple hundred and fitted it, havent had a problem with it. I did try and fix my old one first but no luck. I'll have to remember about XARATE's thread now incase it happens again!

**Mechan1k** · 17-01-2012, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XARATE

As an auto electrician i can confirm it is a common issue. In the past 12 months ive have had 9 customers experience the problem, its only recently that i have worked out how to repair them (as shown in my thread that is linked above)
The issue causeing the failure isnt the weight of the keys. Its the ignition switch failing not the barrel, rather its an inadequet crimp holding the rear of the igntion switch in.
It is now standard in our workshop the tighten the crimp on all ba/bf falcons and territorys when in the workshop. It take less then 5 mins and requires a hammer, pin punch and screwdriver

Will have to remember that .... or I'll tow the car to Tumut for you to fix .... LOL

**MercurySilver** · 11-01-2016, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XARATE

As an auto electrician i can confirm it is a common issue. In the past 12 months ive have had 9 customers experience the problem, its only recently that i have worked out how to repair them (as shown in my thread that is linked above)
The issue causeing the failure isnt the weight of the keys. Its the ignition switch failing not the barrel, rather its an inadequet crimp holding the rear of the igntion switch in.
It is now standard in our workshop the tighten the crimp on all ba/bf falcons and territorys when in the workshop. It take less then 5 mins and requires a hammer, pin punch and screwdriver

On the lefi side of the column on back of the barrel?
The black disc with wires coming out that doesnt sit in its slot properly?
Just had this on my ef
Screwdriver and a hammer to put a small crimp/dent in the casing that holds the wires/disc in fixed it
Surely its not the same prob since 1995

**ebxr8240** · 17-01-2012, 05:40 PM

New batch coming from China..
She'll be right...

lamborghinifan · 17-01-2012, 05:53 PM

just fixed this in my 04 territory RWD, from what i'm told it's the most popular model for the fault. cost 550 for the steering column. was only one in brisbane, took a long time to find. also tried ftg (no e-mail reply, even after phone call slack service? what is going on?) and a few other melbourne and geelong wreckers but none had any. took me about 2 hrs to do.
ed

BTW is the old column worth anything?

mik · 17-01-2012, 06:45 PM

are`nt we lucky to have the best car forum on the planet !

lone_slayer · 11-01-2016, 06:30 AM

Has anyone tried using a metal epoxy putty to rebuild the metal Tab? any ideas why it wouldn't work

fordwood · 11-01-2016, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tweeked

The last two new Fords I have bought, a 2004 GT and a 2005 Territory Ghia have both fallen foul of the ignition key gremlin. This is now becoming one of the most common issues with the B Series and Territory. The problem with the issue is the cost of repair - around $1500. It seams to be the old 10 cent part causing the problem.

Is anyone aware if Ford has addressed this weakness from FG on?

I am looking at buying new again but this is enough to scare me away from a new Ford if they think that since it normally happens outside the warranty period (about 5 yrs seems to be when they start to go) that it is acceptable.

ps - I am going to have a look at the "recrimp fix" listed in the B Series area to see if i can fix myself.

Had this happen to me a few weeks ago, went out to my car one night and found the key just spinning around in the slot. Next morning I found the two ball bearings on the floor and after removing the column shroud found the entire backing plate had come away. Extremely hard to fix with the column still in the car (gravity really works against you when trying to line the bearings up in the right spot. Was lucky to land on a locksmith in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne that said he fixes these constantly. He has made up a new part out of billet aluminium which he says is a lot stronger. So far my ignition has been a lot tighter and feels solid, hopefully it holds up. Was $550 including GST and installation with a 5 year warranty.

Qwerty321 · 11-01-2016, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordwood

Had this happen to me a few weeks ago, went out to my car one night and found the key just spinning around in the slot. Next morning I found the two ball bearings on the floor and after removing the column shroud found the entire backing plate had come away. Extremely hard to fix with the column still in the car (gravity really works against you when trying to line the bearings up in the right spot. Was lucky to land on a locksmith in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne that said he fixes these constantly. He has made up a new part out of billet aluminium which he says is a lot stronger. So far my ignition has been a lot tighter and feels solid, hopefully it holds up. Was $550 including GST and installation with a 5 year warranty.

Jesus. I didn't realize the issue was that bad. My barrel feels loose now and I just turn it back into on after starting it up, and that's given me no problems. But damn! To have the key spinning around in the barrel, how hard do you guys turn your keys!

fordwood · 12-01-2016, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwerty321

Jesus. I didn't realize the issue was that bad. My barrel feels loose now and I just turn it back into on after starting it up, and that's given me no problems. But damn! To have the key spinning around in the barrel, how hard do you guys turn your keys!

If your barrel already feels loose my advice would be to pull the steering column shroud off and check the back plate of the ignition (it has electrical wires connected to it) it might be coming loose. Before it falls off completely see if you can cable tie or recrimp the ****y little metal tabs that hold it in place. I definitely never had any weight in my keys or would ever turn the key too hard, it's just a poor design of component that is more than likely to fail given time (ten years in my case).