Holden seeks $300million to build two extra production lines in Adelaide

Brazen · 27-02-2012, 04:07 PM

Potentially big investment on top of the Cruze line added last year. Interesting to see how it goes, they are still profitable which helps their cause a bit with Detroit and the government. Exports are out and domestic production is in. Im betting Toyota will also be seeking money for Corolla or Rav4 soon.

http://www.news.com.au/business/m-mo...-1226282123276

Quote:

$300m more from taxpayers to save car jobs Save this story to read laterby: By Neil Wilson
From: Herald Sun
February 27, 2012 12:00AM

HOLDEN says taxpayers will have to kick in another $300 million to save jobs.
The car maker has indicated the Federal Government will have to put in more cash on top of its co-investment on the Cruze model to ensure its Detroit headquarters does not send future production offshore.

The car maker's Australian chief, Mike Devereaux, made it plain yesterday that other governments were prepared to enter similar agreements with parent General Motors.

He said Australia must be competitive if the car maker was to keep producing models.

Mr Devereaux said Holden would like to put two extra production lines into its Adelaide plant by 2020 in addition to its present line for the Cruze, which had a $150 million Federal Government contribution.

The Holden chief told the ABC TV's Inside Business that $300 million was closer to the range that the company would require than the $100 million speculated.

He said the multiplier effect of five support jobs for every GM job made it obvious why "every country in the world is engaged I think in a competition" to lure car manufacture.

"A lot of people wish that the world was flat and that everybody played by the same rules but countries aggressively compete for what Australia has," he said.

Mr Devereaux said Holden remained profitable but its costs were more in line with General Motors plants in the US than in China or Thailand.

The high Australian dollar severely eroded export potential and meant its business had to remain domestic-focused.

Mr Devereaux stressed the British Government had just doubled its co-investment fund for general industry to 2.4 billion, attracting 170 applications from companies including BMW and Nissan.

"So very smart policies in the UK; we think that not just auto but broad-based manufacturing should have similar policies in this country," he said.

He said GM deployed 10 per cent of its revenue on both engineering and capital investment.

"As that capital is deployed around the world, we try to deploy it in a way that returns the best return to our shareholders," he said.

Smoke Pursuit · 27-02-2012, 04:14 PM

Let them go..... The government does not give the rest of us funding to continue on business, so why should these turkeys keep putting their hands out... Government would be better of spending 300 million in recruiting all the employees elsewhere.

Dave_Obsession · 27-02-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Let them go..... The government does not give the rest of us funding to continue on business, so why should these turkeys keep putting their hands out...

"He said the multiplier effect of five support jobs for every GM job" - This is why...

And from their point of view, if you don't ask you won't receive...they've made it plainly clear that they're playing countries against each other to see who will give them the most money to make cars...I don't think Australia has a choice but to continue to help fund their operations...bearing in mind that the funds are tied to certain goals that must be reached by the manufacturer at certain times...

Brazen · 27-02-2012, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Let them go..... The government does not give the rest of us funding to continue on business, so why should these turkeys keep putting their hands out... Government would be better of spending 300 million in recruiting all the employees elsewhere.

If this was money to help subsidise Commodore production, then I would agree as it doesnt help out the rest of the industry. However if this is to help create more volume and build more cars then this helps out the entire supplier and ancillary industries. In the end $300million is chicken feed for the Australian government, I assume GM would be putting in hundreds of millions of dollars and I also assume the investment by the government would be near enough revenue neutral (ie the multiplier effect which helps the rest of the economy and taxation base).

svo supporter · 27-02-2012, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Let them go..... The government does not give the rest of us funding to continue on business, so why should these turkeys keep putting their hands out... Government would be better of spending 300 million in recruiting all the employees elsewhere.

Excellent quoting from someone that doesn't live anywhere near the plant, to know how many businesses rely on that plant being there.

I reckon the same would apply to the Ford plant.

So may I suggest, sticking your head around the areas concerned, finding out how many jobs ARE at stake if the plant/s were to close, instead of being an internet know it all.

Gobes32 · 27-02-2012, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Excellent quoting from someone that doesn't live anywhere near the plant, to know how many businesses rely on that plant being there.

I reckon the same would apply to the Ford plant.

So may I suggest, sticking your head around the areas concerned, finding out how many jobs ARE at stake if the plant/s were to close, instead of being an internet know it all.

Surely it has gotten to the point of being ridiculous? I mean, how much money can they possibly need? I think it's time to cut the lifelines, sink or swim, because all this taxpayer bailouts is making my head spin.........

CAMS290 · 27-02-2012, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

Surely it has gotten to the point of being ridiculous? I mean, how much money can they possibly need? I think it's time to cut the lifelines, sink or swim, because all this taxpayer bailouts is making my head spin.........

I totally agree, I am self employed with one employee, business has been quiet and money has been really tight, if I am late paying my BAS, GST & PAYG I get reamed by the ATO............they don't give a stuff if I go broke and loose my house and my business. I don't get govt handouts or preferential treatment, I dont get massive rate/pay increases and I have just about had enough of hearing about tax payers bailing out un profitable companies.

No one gives a stuff if I'm out on my a$$ living on welfare, well guess what ?
I am getting to the stage that I couldn't care less if Ford, Toyota or Holden had a manufacturing base in Australia anymore.

Smoke Pursuit · 28-02-2012, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Excellent quoting from someone that doesn't live anywhere near the plant, to know how many businesses rely on that plant being there.

I reckon the same would apply to the Ford plant.

So may I suggest, sticking your head around the areas concerned, finding out how many jobs ARE at stake if the plant/s were to close, instead of being an internet know it all.

Quoting??

I have a fair idea on how many people it affects, but at the same time the rest of us don't get handouts to keep our businesses going, we make them work! Holden especially seem to struggle with survival to the point where I think its time the government said tough luck you Americans, if you cannot make your operation viable here then go!

As I said spend the 300 million on making sure the employees get employed elsewhere or packages to retire. Holden use to employ approximately 6500 employees, but I think that number would be down to 5000 now. Thats $60,000 per person to either get them into another industry (mining for example) or pay them out to retire.

There are so many industries looking for workers its not funny, yet these poor people working for Holden and Ford keep holding on living in hope that one day they will get above industry award wages and a full 38 hour week 48 weeks of the year.

At least one of them if not both will not be here by 2016... Why throw good money after bad?

The other option is if the government lifts tariffs on imports.... But with all their silly little trade agreements (that Australia loses on most of the time) that will never happen.

bigwil · 28-02-2012, 10:25 AM

Regarding Holdens big announcement, im guessing its just an extension deal with 888.

Gobes32 · 28-02-2012, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

There are so many industries looking for workers its not funny, yet these poor people working for Holden and Ford keep holding on living in hope that one day they will get above industry award wages and a full 38 hour week 48 weeks of the year.

IS that true? My wife is in recruitment here in Geelong, and her exact words were "You don't want to be looking for fulltime work right about now, there is none......"

Is mining really going to save this country?

Smoke Pursuit · 28-02-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobes32

IS that true? My wife is in recruitment here in Geelong, and her exact words were "You don't want to be looking for fulltime work right about now, there is none......"

Is mining really going to save this country?

One of the guys I know runs a recruitment business in the transport and logistics industry and cannot get enough workers! 70 kay a year to roll around on a forklift, would have to beat working for Ford wouldn't it?

Mining wont save us in the long run, but hopefully by then I am retired sitting at home playing with my cars.

svo supporter · 28-02-2012, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Quoting??

I have a fair idea on how many people it affects, but at the same time the rest of us don't get handouts to keep our businesses going, we make them work! Holden especially seem to struggle with survival to the point where I think its time the government said tough luck you Americans, if you cannot make your operation viable here then go!

As I said spend the 300 million on making sure the employees get employed elsewhere or packages to retire. Holden use to employ approximately 6500 employees, but I think that number would be down to 5000 now. Thats $60,000 per person to either get them into another industry (mining for example) or pay them out to retire.

There are so many industries looking for workers its not funny, yet these poor people working for Holden and Ford keep holding on living in hope that one day they will get above industry award wages and a full 38 hour week 48 weeks of the year.

At least one of them if not both will not be here by 2016... Why throw good money after bad?

The other option is if the government lifts tariffs on imports.... But with all their silly little trade agreements (that Australia loses on most of the time) that will never happen.

All good and well using the 300 mill to re-train ex-employees of Holden, but what about the 10 dozen plus businesses that are set up around the plant that rely heavily on the plant employees business? Leave them go to the wall?

Yes, I am sure there are plenty of options out there to help save this plant, along with the Ford manufacturing plant. Just a case of the gov't playing ball in the right way.

As for lacking jobs....People generally chase the $$$$$, rather than taking what ever they can get..... I've heard about 2 jobs in the last months, where employers are screaming for workers.....Sure it's a dirty ol' tyre fitting job...sheet money...but an income none the less.

fte50 · 28-02-2012, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Quoting??

Holden use to employ approximately 6500 employees, but I think that number would be down to 5000 now. Thats $60,000 per person to either get them into another industry (mining for example) or pay them out to retire.

.

More like 2500 (very generous figure) direct employees nation wide - incl, floor people, accounts, engineering etc.
When my dept was made redundant in 2009 we each received -
*5 weeks per ever yr service uncapped
*1 week further loyalty payment per every yr of service uncapped
*4 weeks severance pay
*30 days max amount of paid sickleave
*Full annual leave / long service leave payout
*Full shift loading on payments for shift workers
and last but not least........drum role
*Lifetime Gold Card discount giving 30% off new Commodore or Aus. made cars / parts, and 25% off imported badge cars & products.

I guess it dont take much to realise there is substantially more than $60k per head, given majority of workforce is atleast 10 yrs young on average.

Joe5619 · 28-02-2012, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fte50

More like 2500 (very generous figure) direct employees nation wide - incl, floor people, accounts, engineering etc.

Do you have any facts to back this up??

In March 2009 there was over 6000 employees & I'm sure if Holden saked over 3500 staff members we would have heard about it!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden

atec77 · 28-02-2012, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Let them go..... The government does not give the rest of us funding to continue on business, so why should these turkeys keep putting their hands out... Government would be better of spending 300 million in recruiting all the employees elsewhere.

This
put the chairman and board on a base salery equal to the workers plus bonus and penalties , just watch it suddenly make money

Dave_Obsession · 27-02-2012, 04:16 PM

Saw part of his interview last night...was refreshing to see somebody giving frank and no-nonsense answers. Mind you I don't think anything of what he said was exactly ground-breaking stuff...

No doubt the government will cough up the dough as well eventually...

Falcman0o7 · 27-02-2012, 04:21 PM

God holden are pathetic.

**Polyal** · 27-02-2012, 04:33 PM

extra production lines for what demand? export potential?

I cant see why people think exporting cars from Oz is ever a good idea.

Brazen · 27-02-2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

extra production lines for what demand? export potential?

I cant see why people think exporting cars from Oz is ever a good idea.

Domestic, probably a compact SUV will be one of them.

Buntz · 27-02-2012, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

extra production lines for what demand? export potential?

I cant see why people think exporting cars from Oz is ever a good idea.

Australia then needs to be a base for higher premium vehicles.

falconnut · 27-02-2012, 04:35 PM

Funny how FNA and FoA can sustain eachother but GM cant even help out its own AU arm, pathetic.

Brazen · 27-02-2012, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconnut

Funny how FNA and FoA can sustain eachother but GM cant even help out its own AU arm, pathetic.

This would involve a significant investment from GM. I bet Ford must be looking for something similar from the government although they have been very quiet about what they are doing after this gen Falcon.

MAD · 27-02-2012, 04:37 PM

How does $300mil investment create more sales?

FPV GTHO · 27-02-2012, 04:44 PM

Is this confirmation that these 2 potential lines would only be for domestic sales? If so i think this is a very tough sell. If its going to be on the same investment scale as Cruze, then its GM looking to invest 1.2B in total funds into local sales, but for what?

fte50 · 27-02-2012, 05:01 PM

Majority will no doubt be banked & used to fund the next rollout of employee redundancies

Smoke Pursuit · 27-02-2012, 04:58 PM

Yeh and then once they receive that 300 mill and spend it they will be on the "poor us" bandwagon again.

Its time they survived on their own two feet. We don't see the government giving any other manufacturing industries handouts of this magnitude.

To be honest they don't even build great cars anymore....

Holden gets most of its supplies from places like China and Korea, so how they can suggest there will be a flow on effect is beyond laughable... Exports are no good either so unless they are going to build the entire Holden / Daewoo local lineup locally I don't see what their point is.

Anyhow I'm not keen on seeing our tax dollars as individuals go to bail these idiots out... Let them sink and spend the 300 million on social security for all I care.

FPV GTHO · 27-02-2012, 05:02 PM

Of this magnitude, no, but it does happen.

If we had Toyota and Ford now coming out asking for the same level of funding it would certainly get interesting. On one hand the general public could turn on the whole industry, as Holden's $300m request could easily turn into $800m-$1B industry wide. On the other hand if the public accepts it, it might take alot of heat off Holden.

Smoke Pursuit · 27-02-2012, 05:03 PM

Yes... Poor us... we now have to use that 300 mill to pay out another 1000 workers.....

If the government were serious they would partnership one of the big brands... either Ford or Holden and build their own cars.

fte50 · 27-02-2012, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Yes... Poor us... we now have to use that 300 mill to pay out another 1000 workers.....

If the government were serious they would partnership one of the big brands... either Ford or Holden and build their own cars.

Bingo ! .... but then they would have to pay a carbon tax

Smoke Pursuit · 27-02-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fte50

Bingo ! .... but then they would have to pay a carbon tax

Julia would not like that...

They might go back to making all government agency's buy local however instead of Kia's and Hyundai's... Why not support the industry with some purchase orders rather then handouts.