Nitrogen in your tyres - Good idea ?

[Rodge]

So the local mechanic i'm taking my car too for a service tomorrow mentioned to me that he thought it would be a great idea to fill my tyres with Nitrogen, cost $30.

Reckons the type pressure is way more stable, tyres last longer and after a year the pressure is still all good, maybe only drop 1 p.s.i. in a year.

Expensive car, expensive tyres, good idea, sounds good but I'd like to hear some user feedback. Have you filled your tyres with Nitrogen and what's your experience ? (Apoligies if this has been done to death allready, I havn't seen a thread on it, but feel free to post a link if this has been all done before).

[FPV GTHO]

Havent done it, but air is 78.1% nitrogen anyway.

[flappist]

I use nitrogen although it has always been free.

As opposed to air which is 80% nitrogen "pure" nitrogen does not have very much oxygen or water in it and being relatively inert does not react with the tyres.

Nitrogen is used in aircraft for the same reason except with the extensions that the tyres will not get ice in them or burn as readily in a heavy landing.

I have never had problems and have found the tyres tend to hold pressure longer.

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by flappist

I use nitrogen although it has always been free.

As opposed to air which is 80% nitrogen "pure" nitrogen does not have very much oxygen or water in it and being relatively inert does not react with the tyres.

Nitrogen is used in aircraft for the same reason except with the extensions that the tyres will not get ice in them or burn as readily in a heavy landing.

I have never had problems and have found the tyres tend to hold pressure longer.

Thanks. Do you mind me asking how much longer they hold pressure for ?
Would you go 6 months without needing to top the pressure up ?

I currently check tyre pressure every 2-4 weeks and usually put a couple of p.s.i. in to top up to the 40 p.s.i. I run all round.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Thanks. Do you mind me asking how much longer they hold pressure for ?
Would you go 6 months without needing to top the pressure up ?

I currently check tyre pressure every 2-4 weeks and usually put a couple of p.s.i. in to top up to the 40 p.s.i. I run all round.

Basically it holds up between services, 10-15k depending on which vehicle.

As far as the summer/winter thing is concerned the pressure change is bugger all, something like 1 psi for every 5 degrees and the temp of the tyre has very little to do with the outside air temp unless you have been parked for several hours.

[mytgxl]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Thanks. Do you mind me asking how much longer they hold pressure for ?
Would you go 6 months without needing to top the pressure up ?

I currently check tyre pressure every 2-4 weeks and usually put a couple of p.s.i. in to top up to the 40 p.s.i. I run all round.

2& 1/2 years & still no change in tyre pressure if that helps!

[prasac]

woulda been better to do it in summer than winter. when the temp drops so does tyre pressure no matter what it's filled with.

[mytgxl]

$30 bucks sounds a bit dear I only pay about $2 a tyre & no never had a problem with it.

[Rodge]

Interesting....if you had to pay $30 for it, would you ?

[rev]

Originally Posted by Rodge

Interesting....if you had to pay $30 for it, would you ?

I just did. From Bob Jane and now I have purdy green valve caps They said they recommend they be rechecked each 6 months (for free by them) but if I want bring it back once a month but they seldom see the need to add more than 1 psi after 6 months. They had some machine that does all 4 tyres at once so each wheel is set exactly the same. In my case I run 38 all round.

Save my old bones from checking them myself. Naturally, I am not that clueless to not notice an under inflated tyre.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by rev

I just did. From Bob Jane and now I have purdy green valve caps .

If you give me $20 bucks, I'll paint your caps any colour you like. I'll even supply the paint and new valve caps.

Also amazing, when it first came to the general publics knowledge, the caps were red. I surpose they realised red didn't go faster after all.

BTW, I have also seen the sticker "nitrogen" near the valve as well.

[wrongwaynorris]

Nitrogen is inert thus it does not expand and contract relative to temperature . Motorcycle racers have been using it for decades as i have in all my road bikes aswell . Well and truly woth it but $ 6.00 per tyre sound a bit steep.

[XC_Lizzard]

Originally Posted by wrongwaynorris

Nitrogen is inert thus it does not expand and contract relative to temperature.

All gases (inert or otherwise) expand and contract with changes in pressure or temperature. The amount of pressure variation over the temperature range encountered by the tyre is reduced by using Nitrogen.

I really don't see a case for using nitrogen on road car tyres. If you are losing that much pressure in normal road use, then it is probably not due to temperature variation anyway.

[pottery beige]

heliums the next big thing.. reduces un sprung weight and improves handling.....

[prasac]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

heliums the next big thing.. reduces un sprung weight and improves handling.....

you need to be very careful when using helium, compressor didn't work one day so we pumped in helium. around 1/2 track the car started to lift, was the best half track it ever done. however it floated over the beams at the end of the track and didn't register a 1/4 mile time

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by prasac

you need to be very careful when using helium, compressor didn't work one day so we pumped in helium. around 1/2 track the car started to lift, was the best half track it ever done. however it floated over the beams at the end of the track and didn't register a 1/4 mile time

Not sure if you're serious, but if you are, sounds rather iffy driving on light tyres lol, pull some decent burnouts I'd suppose?

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

heliums the next big thing.. reduces un sprung weight and improves handling.....

probably, even though the weight difference will be like 1%

[XR6Naranja]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

probably, even though the weight difference will be like 1%

0.01 off your PB down the drag strip, maybe? lol

Originally Posted by prasac

nah i wasn't serious, just for sh!ts n giggles.

you see alot of people do alot of things, for a street car there is practically no benefit. circuit cars etc you might see a small benefit.

if it's not done properly then there is no point. you need to inflate/deflate the tyres, 3 or 4 times at least to get as much of the oxygen out, get all the fluids etc out.

for $30 buy the missus some flowers, there is more gain out of that as it won't just be your tyres that get ''pumped up'' that day

Haha that's fair enough, but come on $30 flowers? economy is tough enough as it is lol.

[Rodge]

From the reading I've done most of the claims seem to be based upon the fact that the tyre pressure is more stable, holds pressure much longer, doesn't heat up as much...

Claims of increased fuel economy which appear to be frequent with those selling Nitrogen appear to be based on the claim that most people don't check their tyre pressures very often and one site I saw claiumed that studies show that around 94% of people are driving around with under inflated tyres.

OTOH if one is allready in the habit of checking one's tyre pressures every few weeks then that would appear to leave the convienience of not having to do so, as the remaining main selling point.

Appears that in the States you often have to pay to use the tyre pressure pumps at service stations. I still havn't formed a conclusive opinion and welcome all and any further feedback.

[Nikked]

Just a marketing gimmick...no gain for the money outlayed.


But, FYI, the points made about Nitrogen not loosing pressure is based on the fact of Nitrogen Atoms being bigger then Oxygen atoms, meaning less leakage...


The reason why planes and Racing cars use it is because Nitrogen doesn't contain moisture like compressed air does, making it less effected by heat fluctuating the pressure...

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by Nikked

The reason why planes and Racing cars use it is because Nitrogen doesn't contain moisture like compressed air does, making it less effected by heat fluctuating the pressure...

You mean:

Nitrogen is an inert gas, therefore it is not affected by ambient temperture changes...

Compressed N2 can still contain moisture... Thats why we have to do a Dew Point test on all new N2 bottles at work.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by AWD Chaser

You mean:

Nitrogen is an inert gas, therefore it is not affected by ambient temperture changes...

Compressed N2 can still contain moisture... Thats why we have to do a Dew Point test on all new N2 bottles at work.

Nitrogen is a gas and just like all gasses when they are 'excited' by heat they expand. There is not an element within the periodic table that does not expand when heated.

[4.0i OHC]

Originally Posted by irish2

Nitrogen is a gas and just like all gasses when they are 'excited' by heat they expand. There is not an element within the periodic table that does not expand when heated.

Exactly. The fact that nitrogen is relatively inert simply describes that it isn't very reactive, not that it's some magic element which doesn't expand when its molecules pick up more energy. No elements behave this way. This whole 'nitrogen in tyres' thing smells like pure BS to me.

[2011G6E]

Not unless your daily drive is a Formula One car...just another waste of money to suck in people with little knowledge of physics, chemistry, or general knowledge about cars and how tyres work.

The stuff you're pumping in is over 78% nitrogen...trust me, that bit extra won't make any difference. I thought the nitrogen filled tyre thing had passed long ago when people realised it was a crock. No idea it was still being offered...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by irish2

Nitrogen is a gas and just like all gasses when they are 'excited' by heat they expand. There is not an element within the periodic table that does not expand when heated.

Exactly....its the moisture content in the air we breath creates the unstable environment in the tire...


When water turns into a gas, it happens as a rapid expansion, greater then that of nitrogen.


Nitrogen is more predictable in its behavoir, as it doesn't have the moisture to effect to pressure over temperature variables. Compressed air however, is dependant on humidity, and how good the moisture traps in the compressed air setup work.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Exactly....its the moisture content in the air we breath creates the unstable environment in the tire...


.

The tyre already has air in it, as soon as it is fitted. So nitrogen ain't going to remove it is it?

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by irish2

Nitrogen is a gas and just like all gasses when they are 'excited' by heat they expand. There is not an element within the periodic table that does not expand when heated.

Yes Irish2 .. Two laws about gases, one called Charles Law, states that as a gas is heated it's volume increases. The other, Boyles Law, states that as the volume of the container is decreased, pressure increases, or as volume in a given size container increases, so does pressure.

[falcon convert]

I've been there, done that with Nitrogen and I have reverted back to good old air. At the risk of sounding very old school, in my opinion Nitrogen in tyres is not a good idea.
Why I hear you ask? Because once you have Nitrogen in your tyres you tend to think your tyre pressure concerns are over, so you get out of the habit of regularly checking your tyres. Once out of this habit, if you DO have a tyre at low pressure you are less likely to notice it. So you end up driving around on a under inflated tyre. At best this bad for fuel economy and prematurely wears out the tyres; at worst it compromises handling is potentially dangerous.

Know your car and stick with the discipline of regularly checking your tyres.

[svo supporter]

Tyres leak air regardless of what's in them. Some tyres loose a little more pressure than others. Just the nature of the beast.

You can NEVER put straight nitrogen into a tyre, because air is always in there to begin with. There is no way known you can deflate a tyre fully to get all nitrogen in there. Or should I say, the ratio is automatically decreased.

Using in race cars/bikes. They don't have the same tyres on there for that long. So different situation. Same applies to aircraft.

In a nutshell, within the tyre trade. Fart in your tyre, it's more effective.

It's a money scam, just like the person that originally bought it to the publics attention.

If my memory serves me correctly, the well known business owner was going through a messy divorce and his franchise profits were up the creek. So he decided to pay ACA or Today Tonight to sprook about it and then proceed to rip off unsuspecting people with these claims.

If nitrogen is so good, every tyre shop wuld be selling it, as it's a cut throat industry. So you have to ask yourself, which ones do and why wouldn't all the others if it's so bloody terrific?

[gcg2503]

I asked for nitrogen to be pumped into my tyres at the tyre place a month or so ago

he basically told me it is a waste of money

Maybe nitrogen is to the tyre industry what paint protection is to new car sales ?