cops using camo nets to hide behind! In ...VIC!

[EDManual]

Seriously have they ever saved anyone from killing anyone by giving someone a speeding ticket?!!‏

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law...-1226574886387

[Trek]

Where was this in Vic?

[Theo@BluePower]

Yer i have seen them setting up at the black spur half way along where the little bit of straight is where everyone overtakes the slow cars, they seem to be targeting more the motorbikes over taking on solid white line or speeding... they have a cops set up around the courner to pull you over and video the event happening to use in court..

All it would take is a hunter in the area to let off a few shots and i think they would move on pretty quick..

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by EDManual

Seriously have they ever saved anyone from killing anyone by giving someone a speeding ticket?!!‏

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law...-1226574886387

I really hate comments like this!!

All I'm going to say on this topic. You can bet your sweet **** they have saved 100's hundreds lives over the years by giving people speeding fines!!

[EDManual]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I really hate comments like this!!

All I'm going to say on this topic. You can bet your sweet **** they have saved 100's hundreds lives over the years by giving people speeding fines!!

oh yeah?! show me the proof?! Where? Show me 1!??

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by EDManual

oh yeah?! show me the proof?! Where? Show me 1!??

Those accidents EVER happen so I can't show you proof. There is no way of knowing the real value of slowing people down & the countless lives saved. For all you know, one of those lives saved could be your one!! It is my belief & nothing you say will change it.

Speeding kills, so slowing people down saves lives, the maths is simple!!

Originally Posted by Kable72

I'm with ED on this one. This sort of tactic not only puts officers at risk but it's putting other motorists on the road at risk. What is going to happen is that people are going to have to look harder for the speed traps and while they're looking harder, they're not paying attention.

How about motorists put more effect into driving within the law & less time speed??

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Those accidents EVER happen so I can't show you proof. There is no way of knowing the real value of slowing people down & the countless lives saved. For all you know, one of those lives saved could be your one!! It is my belief & nothing you say will change it.

Speeding kills, so slowing people down saves lives, the maths is simple!!

Maths is not the only thing that is simple......

Victoria has the most draconian traffic law enforcement in the country with more than two thirds of the total number of speed cameras, most of which are hidden, yet still has a fairly similar road toll to the rest of the country.

This can only lead to one of two possibilities:

1) Victorians are dangerous morons who should not be allowed anywhere near a car as they are hazards on the road.

2) The intense focus on speed is actually about revenue not safety and the Victorian government have run an absolutely brilliant propaganda campaign that has convinced the more naive section of the population that it is for their own good.

Which one of these is most likely to be true?

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by flappist

Maths is not the only thing that is simple......

Victoria has the most draconian traffic law enforcement in the country with more than two thirds of the total number of speed cameras, most of which are hidden, yet still has a fairly similar road toll to the rest of the country.

This can only lead to one of two possibilities:

1) Victorians are dangerous morons who should not be allowed anywhere nears a car as they are hazards on the road.

2) The intense focus on speed is actually about revenue not safety and the Victorian government have run an absolutely brilliant propaganda campaign that has convinced the more naive section of the population that it is for their own good.

Which one of these is most likely to be true?

I'm option number 3
3) Those that believe it has worked & that the road Toll would have been worse without the cameras

I will agree it is a very good revenue raiser, which is a bonus if you ask me. Let those fools speeding pay taxes rather than me! If they get rid of those cameras, then I’d have to pay more taxes somewhere else!!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Those accidents EVER happen so I can't show you proof. There is no way of knowing the real value of slowing people down & the countless lives saved. For all you know, one of those lives saved could be your one!! It is my belief & nothing you say will change it.

Speeding kills, so slowing people down saves lives, the maths is simple!!

How about motorists put more effect into driving within the law & less time speed??

The standard drivers airbag introduced with the EF Falcon has probably done more to reduce the road toll. Vehicle design and road design are the biggest contributors to road safety. With fatigue and inattention being the biggest behaivoural issues. You are 7 times more likely to die in a vehicle built 20 years ago to one built today. Fatalities caused by exceeding a speed limits are one the lowest cause of crashes. UK says about 3%, the South Australian government say 6%- but that 6% also include people who are driving too fast for the conditions which often has nothing to do with the speed limit.

In fact some studies suggest that when drivers exceed the speed limit they are less likely to be involved in a fatal accident than those who don't exceed it. Especially as there is a strong link between inattention and fatigue with the speed the driver is travelling at.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The standard drivers airbag introduced with the EF Falcon has probably done more to reduce the road toll. Vehicle design and road design are the biggest contributors to road safety. With fatigue and inattention being the biggest behaivoural issues. You are 7 times more likely to die in a vehicle built 20 years ago to one built today. Fatalities caused by exceeding a speed limits are one the lowest cause of crashes. UK says about 3%, the South Australian government say 6%- but that 6% also include people who are driving too fast for the conditions which often has nothing to do with the speed limit.

In fact some studies suggest that when drivers exceed the speed limit they are less likely to be involved in a fatal accident than those who don't exceed it. Especially as there is a strong link between inattention and fatigue with the speed the driver is travelling at.

i would agree with car safety these days being a huge contributor to lives being saved, i would also add anti lock brakes as a huge contributor to safety, in fact i would say abs more so than the air bags, having my own *** saved by abs i did`nt need the air bags !
police have been doing the sneeky attack for as long as i can remember, maybe the camo is being a bit more extreme , but using tree`s/bush for cover is not unusual.
the thing with camera`s is the delay time,
driver x gets x amount of days /weeks /months to drive around before the ticket comes,
imo being pulled up straight away given a ticket or a bluey has an immediate effect, in the mean time young billy and his mate who just got camera snapped from behind keep going for a long weekend camping and drinking to an unknown destination up the highway unbeknown he`s been snapped continues with a bit of horse play behind the wheel, and ends up wrapped around a tree before the ticket comes.

[XrRabbit]

When I speed whether its 5 over the limit or I'm doing 150 on a race track I'm paying 100% attention to the road! To what people around me are doing to the conditions everything. When I'm doing the speed limit or less kind of laid back abit. Still look at what's going on around me and stuff

[peterljohnson55]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Speeding kills, so slowing people down saves lives, the maths is simple!!

Yes ... the maths is indeed simple.

Furthermore, that reduced speed saves lives is self-evident to thinking people.

For those that 'oddly' ask for proof, I reply, the proof is in the endless accidents where people have been killed and maimed BECAUSE OF speed. That too is self evident, but perhaps some dont want 'to think of that side of the equation.

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by peterljohnson55

Yes ... the maths is indeed simple.

Furthermore, that reduced speed saves lives is self-evident to thinking people.

For those that 'oddly' ask for proof, I reply, the proof is in the endless accidents where people have been killed and maimed BECAUSE OF speed. That too is self evident, but perhaps some dont want 'to think of that side of the equation.

If you were one of these "thinking" types of people, you would realize of course all accidents happen because of speed. Any time an accident occurs, it is because one or more vehicles were moving. If it is moving, it must therefore do so at a particular speed (even if it's 1 km/h). It is still speed. Therefore to solve the problem for you lefties, let's make cars unmovable? Perhaps maybe you are trying to imply that accidents happen because people drive faster than the posted limit? Well people die in accidents travelling at speeds both above and below the limit. People also manage to drive without crashing, or crash without dying both below and above the limit. So really at the end of the day, all you have is rhetoric, which I can guarantee has never saved a life.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by EDManual

oh yeah?! show me the proof?! Where? Show me 1!??

I have been given a few speeding fines in my younger days. After about the fourth time I lost points and had to pay an over $300 fine, I learnt my lesson. The police might have just saved the public from my stupid actions. There's the proof.

[jaydee]

Originally Posted by EDManual

oh yeah?! show me the proof?! Where? Show me 1!??

That is just not possible. Yet if you check accident statistics there is plenty of evidence of speeding being the cause of accidents. Just as drink driving, inattentaveness etc. Using your rationale you could ask, prove how stopping a drink driver has saved any lives.

It's like having a shoo roo fitted to your car, how do you know it works, or is it just good luck that you've never hit one.

As for being in plain sight, thats rediculous, people will just slow down, just like when they get flashed, then once past the camera, speed up. If habitual speeders keep getting caught by fair or foul means, then they desrve it.

But I have noticed with a few of your threads ED, you are usually banging on about Police and giving people tickets.

Either cop it sweet, or don't speed.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by jaydee

That is just not possible. Yet if you check accident statistics there is plenty of evidence of speeding being the cause of accidents. Just as drink driving, inattentaveness etc. Using your rationale you could ask, prove how stopping a drink driver has saved any lives.

It's like having a shoo roo fitted to your car, how do you know it works, or is it just good luck that you've never hit one.

As for being in plain sight, thats ridiculous, people will just slow down, just like when they get flashed, then once past the camera, speed up. If habitual speeders keep getting caught by fair or foul means, then they desrve it.

But I have noticed with a few of your threads ED, you are usually banging on about Police and giving people tickets.

Either cop it sweet, or don't speed.

Think I just fainted .......

Enough police driving around makes you check what you are doing. A letter in the mail 4 weeks later does what to fix the situation compared to copping a slap at that moment? Again .... better to prevent or as an after thought? I just think its so logical ... but then logic doesn't fit with this multi million dollar industry. Oh .... the rest I do not agree with either by the way.

[flappist]

I heard a rumour Channel 9 are looking for scripts for the next crime series and as they have done murder, drugs and armed robbery they have decided to finally tackle the big one.

UNDERBELLY Fastness

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I really hate comments like this!!

All I'm going to say on this topic. You can bet your sweet **** they have saved 100's hundreds lives over the years by giving people speeding fines!!

And how many more lives would have been saved had they been visible and on the job? This actually belittles the job of a cop if you ask me. All that training to hide and point a radar... Honestly... Is the state that poor?

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I really hate comments like this!!

All I'm going to say on this topic. You can bet your sweet **** they have saved 100's hundreds lives over the years by giving people speeding fines!!

I really hate people that swallow all the bull the road safety industry perpetuates. It is all a big gravy train with the researchers getting more grants by giving the government the results or data they want, more flash dinners and meetings and forums, between 5 star hotels and dinners, and trips to corporate boxes at the footy (I have witnessed all this first hand), as they go around perpetuating their own industry. Then TAC and the like spent millions on advertising so the media etc. follow their line too..... It is pathetic.

[Chrisosicko]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I really hate comments like this!!

All I'm going to say on this topic. You can bet your sweet **** they have saved 100's hundreds lives over the years by giving people speeding fines!!

And does sending a letter in the mail 2 weeks after the speeding incident save lives? It's a cop out. More cops on the road physically pulling people over before they do kill people saves lives. Not someone hiding in the bush

[EDManual]

heres another article from a while back, same sort of thing :

POLICE are wearing camouflage to nab speeding motorcyclists in the Yarra Ranges. Officers in jungle greens have been hiding behind bushes to trap hoons racing along the winding roads.

The ranges are a favourite with motorbike racers, who post videos on YouTube.

Sgt John Morgan, officer in charge of Operation Surreptitious, said it was difficult to police the region using regular tactics.

"The road is so narrow there's nowhere a marked car can sit with the speed camera," he said.

"And if a police car takes a speed from an oncoming vehicle, the drivers know there's not many places we can turn around and give pursuit.

"So there was an element of riders and drivers who really saw the area as a law-free zone."

Dozens of videos posted on YouTube show motorcyclists, with video cameras mounted on their instrument panels, clocking up to 170km/h in the Yarra Ranges.
Access all Areas. $1 for the first 28 days. Only $2.95 a week thereafter. Learn more.

One rider describes the Black Spur as "the best road in the world", while others videos show motorbikes doing "monos" -- riding with the front wheel raised -- and overtaking cars in front of oncoming traffic.

Operation Surreptitious began in early March and the Yarra Ranges traffic management unit has already nabbed 26 speeding vehicles over nine days, including a motorbike clocked at 190km/h.

Police have impounded eight motorbikes and one car.

One officer hides in the bushes taking traffic speeds with a laser speed gun, while a police car waits further down the road.

"It may look a bit silly, but at the end of the day it means we're catching motorists driving at extremely dangerous speeds," Sgt Morgan said.

A police spokeswoman said Operation Surreptitious was the first of its kind in the state and was specifically designed for the Yarra Ranges area.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by EDManual

"The road is so narrow there's nowhere a marked car can sit with the speed camera," he said.

"And if a police car takes a speed from an oncoming vehicle, the drivers know there's not many places we can turn around and give pursuit.

"So there was an element of riders and drivers who really saw the area as a law-free zone."

If they can't pursue, they don't need to hide. just have another unit down the road, who they radio and tell them their speed. But since this is about revenue, it'll cost too much to have extra police on duty.

It sounds like Victoria (and every other state) needs a road like Nordschief (the long nurburgring track). sure you have to pay, but so long as it's cheaper than a speeding ticket, you come out in front.

[Dave3911]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

If they can't pursue, they don't need to hide. just have another unit down the road, who they radio and tell them their speed. But since this is about revenue, it'll cost too much to have extra police on duty.

It sounds like Victoria (and every other state) needs a road like Nordschief (the long nurburgring track). sure you have to pay, but so long as it's cheaper than a speeding ticket, you come out in front.

If you'd pay attention to the thread that is EXACTLY what they do. This operation involves offenders being speed checked and video taped at a point in the road that is renowned for dangerous behaviour (such as Mono's and overtaking on double whites) and that info is radioed ahead to MARKED units who pull the offenders over.

Whilst this thread has degraded into another conversation about the effectiveness of speed cameras, the actual police operation that sparked the conversation has nothing to do with speed cameras.

[vanman_75]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

If they can't pursue, they don't need to hide. just have another unit down the road, who they radio and tell them their speed. But since this is about revenue, it'll cost too much to have extra police on duty.

It sounds like Victoria (and every other state) needs a road like Nordschief (the long nurburgring track). sure you have to pay, but so long as it's cheaper than a speeding ticket, you come out in front.

You can drive faster on the road , and corners to the race track ...I was full pin in hire car and getting overtaken LOL , max I got on track was 190 , needs faster car next time if its still open:( ...but yes I agree its an awesome idea but it won't happen , do gooders would end it before it started

[Kable72]

I'm with ED on this one. This sort of tactic not only puts officers at risk but it's putting other motorists on the road at risk. What is going to happen is that people are going to have to look harder for the speed traps and while they're looking harder, they're not paying attention.

[Kable72]

Having your eyes trained on your speedo to ensure that you don't go over the speedlimit with babies, puppies, road signs and the elderly flying over your bonnet saves lives too, right? But it doesn't matter. You didn't go over 60 so it's k.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Kable72

Having your eyes trained on your speedo to ensure that you don't go over the speedlimit with babies, puppies, road signs and the elderly flying over your bonnet saves lives too, right? But it doesn't matter. You didn't go over 60 so it's k.

I do go over the limit, but these cops don’t pull people over for going 5-6 km over the limit. I've driving past these cops doing 5-6 over the limit heaps of times & they let you go past with no problems. It is people doing stupid speeds (CONSTANTLY) that get court out & these people need to be slowed.. Giving them speeding fines & losing point helps do that..

When I was younger I got heaps of speeding fines, to a point where it slowed me down & I now haven’t gotten a speeding fine for 6-8 years & drive much more safely now becuase of it. Had I don’t gotten those fines, I'd still be speeding to this day!!

[Sprint]

lol...

[Kable72]

Yeah those people do get weeded out easily and if they are doing those speeds, once they see the trap they're gone anyway as they're going to fast to slow down properly. But the problem is that they DO catch people going 5-6 ks over the limit and, especially on the highway, going 10-15 ks over is very easy to do. They aren't targetting the morons breaking the sound barrier with this tactic. They're targetting those who are unintentionally going over the limit as they are more worries about paying attention to what is going on around them rather having their faces touching the cluster.

[ShootsWithFilm]

Here’s the thing – they may or may not saved any lives by issuing speeding fines. I am not even going to contemplate this argument because I don’t have any facts for or against it. (To be honest, I probably agree with a lot who say the speed limits are a little too conservative in many areas – I know in the hills areas around where I live, limits that were 100, have now been dropped down to a blanket 80 and even 60…)

But, the law does state a MAXIMUM speed limit on these roads. And when they say MAXIMUM, they are suggesting that this is the FASTEST you can go. Its not a compulsory speed, it’s a maximum.

So, if you stay below the posted maximum, you won’t get caught! Quite simple really….