How Ford can build the XR8 and G8E

[csv8]

The GT is now assembled at Broadmeadows. Ford have to take an XT to the GT production area to build the GT. Why cann't they add the XR6 and the G6E and drop in a non-SC V8 ??? its not rocket science ? surely?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by csv8

The GT is now assembled at Broadmeadows. Ford have to take an XT to the GT production area to build the GT. Why cann't they add the XR6 and the G6E and drop in a non-SC V8 ??? its not rocket science ? surely?

No it is not rocket science, it is mechanical engineering and as it would be a new engine would have to go through all of the ADR compliance procedures including endurance and crash testing and would cost millions of dollars.

As the V8 ghia and XR8 were both very slow sellers even after massive price cuts and extra options added at no cost I suspect Ford would not be able to make a viable case for building a new one.

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by flappist

No it is not rocket science, it is mechanical engineering and as it would be a new engine would have to go through all of the ADR compliance procedures including endurance and crash testing and would cost millions of dollars.

As the V8 ghia and XR8 were both very slow sellers even after massive price cuts and extra options added at no cost I suspect Ford would not be able to make a viable case for building a new one.

I cant see it needing a lot of compliance to be done, essentially its a GS with no supercharger, and with less weight over the front and more power with better fuel economy. If marketed right it would compete with the SS easily
it just takes effort

[DJM83]

Yeah i reckon they could develop it in a few days, piece of cake really.....

[malazn mafia]

If every falcon left the factory painted, pre-fitted with driveline and wheels, and no interior or bumpers/skirts, and is fitted at the dealership, couldn't any variant of falcon be produced to customer specs?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

If every falcon left the factory painted, pre-fitted with driveline and wheels, and no interior or bumpers/skirts, and is fitted at the dealership, couldn't any variant of falcon be produced to customer specs?

My local dealer can't service a car properly and you want to let them build a car? I get your point, but really the dealer network on the whole struggles to do an oil change.

[FGII-XR6]

As flappiest said it is not a simple job even if there is a NA version of the engine in the US they would have to go through the ADR process here and we aren't talking a couple of grand to a certifying engineer like we would pay to drop a non original engine in.
Ford would have to be able to justify the expenditure with adequate sales and on past history that is not likely.
as it stands Ford have a good range of performance cars available starting from the affordable XR6 turbo right through to the GT Rspec. how many options do you want in what after all is a small limited market ( unlike the US where they have a population of 330M to sell to) .
lets face it the XR8 died due to lack of support so it is unlikely to reappear

[stevefreestyle]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

As flappiest said it is not a simple job even if there is a NA version of the engine in the US they would have to go through the ADR process here and we aren't talking a couple of grand to a certifying engineer like we would pay to drop a non original engine in.
Ford would have to be able to justify the expenditure with adequate sales and on past history that is not likely.
as it stands Ford have a good range of performance cars available starting from the affordable XR6 turbo right through to the GT Rspec. how many options do you want in what after all is a small limited market ( unlike the US where they have a population of 330M to sell to) .
lets face it the XR8 died due to lack of support so it is unlikely to reappear

The 420 Hp 5.0 Coyote is EXACTLY the same physical engine Block & Heads as the FPV 5.0 S/C GT - Millions to certify ????? - and so are flying purple pigs !!!!!

The main impediment is the Quad Cam Phasing Wiring loom - which they should be able to adapt from the mustang wiring harness which Retails for around US$1200

Meanwhile GMH are Laughing all the way to the proverbial bank - with an monopoly on the $50K V8 sports market segment. Although they (in stark contrast to Ford) are astute in identifing the market niche and marketing the SS

[flappist]

Originally Posted by stevefreestyle

The 420 Hp 5.0 Coyote is EXACTLY the same physical engine Block & Heads as the FPV GT - Millions to certify ????? - and so are flying purple pigs !!!!!

Meanwhile GMH are Laughing all the way to the proverbial bank - with an monopoly on the $50K V8 sports market segment. Although they (in stark contrast to Ford) are astute in identifing the market niche and marketing the SS

As are the T6, I6, ecoLPi 6 and old dual fuel 6 yet each had to be separately certified. Even the XR6T and F6 engines which are both T6 required separate testing.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by stevefreestyle

The 420 Hp 5.0 Coyote is EXACTLY the same physical engine Block & Heads as the FPV GT - Millions to certify ????? - and so are flying purple pigs !!!!!

Meanwhile GMH are Laughing all the way to the proverbial bank - with an monopoly on the $50K V8 sports market segment. Although they (in stark contrast to Ford) are astute in identifing the market niche and marketing the SS

Wouldn't you think though that Ford have done their home work and said that Gm can have that very small and niche section of the market while they concentrate on other areas?

And yes ..... its does cost a crap load to change an engine. The EcoBoost was available, ready to slot into place but still took a couple of years planning and a shed full of dollars. The difference being ..... Head office wanted Ford to do the ground work on putting an EcoBoost into a rear wheel drive for evaluation purposes .... and for the good of the global company ..... while they would be extremely hard pressed to get them to spend the money on a N/A V8.

They cant turn up at Detroit and have a meeting based on:

Detroit: "Why do you want a NA V8 when 50 million was just spent on a Supercharged V8?"

Broadmeadows: "Because we want a slower V8 and ..... um ...... because GM have one?"

Detroit: "But you have the I6T .... that is quicker, uses less petrol ...... are you serious ?"

Broadmeadows: "Yes but it would be good to have a V8 that is slower than the I6T ...... and yes we are serious!"

Detroit: "Why ......?"

Broadmeadows: "Cos they sound good ...... "

Detroit: "How many would you sell ..... ?"

Broadmeadows: "As many as we did with the B series and the start of the F series .... and GM have a slow V8 option "

Detroit: "But they don't have a 6 Turbo?"

*Sound of crickets .........

Detroit: "Can I have some of those red pills you are on?"

[FGII-XR6]

Obviously I am mistaken after all an engineer experienced in this field must know better ( I assume with such a comment your are an engineer experienced in new vehicle certification )
I was of the understanding that if they so much as change a cam or the ECU parameters they need to get it recertified that's why the XR6 no longer has different engine specs compared to the rest of the 6 cylinder cars but as I said I will bow to your experience and qualifications as an engineer

Originally Posted by stevefreestyle

The 420 Hp 5.0 Coyote is EXACTLY the same physical engine Block & Heads as the FPV 5.0 S/C GT - Millions to certify ????? - and so are flying purple pigs !!!!!

The main impediment is the Quad Cam Phasing Wiring loom - which they should be able to adapt from the mustang wiring harness which Retails for around US$1200

Meanwhile GMH are Laughing all the way to the proverbial bank - with an monopoly on the $50K V8 sports market segment. Although they (in stark contrast to Ford) are astute in identifing the market niche and marketing the SS

[jpd80]

Even changing wheels from 17" to 18" requires a recalibration as it affects the DSC and other functions in the car,
that's why EcoLPI only came with one wheel option, doing multiple options is what adds up costs quickly.

You can bet that Ford has worked out that adding a G8E would probably create more internal competition with G6ET than increasing sales.

We have a wonderful local turbo I-6 engine, why can't people be happy that we have XR6T and G6ET available here and now.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I was of the understanding that if they so much as change a cam or the ECU parameters they need to get it recertified that's why the XR6 no longer has different engine specs compared to the rest of the 6 cylinder cars but as I said I will bow to your experience and qualifications as an engineer

Its more so because Ford felt it would be too expensive chasing further NA gains given the package they had in '02 and where they had just come from.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by csv8

The GT is now assembled at Broadmeadows. Ford have to take an XT to the GT production area to build the GT. Why cann't they add the XR6 and the G6E and drop in a non-SC V8 ??? its not rocket science ? surely?

Hush, silence with that nonsense! Even though the V8 is fully engineered and crash tested with the Falcon they do not want to sell cars they could get 50 grand for. Instead they want to focus on building 4 cylinders that no one buys and LPGs which has production stopped every two weeks because some LPG component maker goes bankrupt because they build so few parts.

How dare you suggest with fleets and families moving to small cars and SUVs, that the real opportunity to exploit is the performance and luxury side of the market with a XR8 and G8E.

[tranquilized]

Why do people always point to the BA and early FG era XR8 and V8 Fairmont Ghia sales figures as "proof" that these types of models wont sell? They had a boat anchor as an engine FFS! Not one bit surprising they didn't sell. Not at all relevant to what Ford could be building now.

I can just as easily point to the SS Commodore and V8 Calais as "proof" that these models do indeed sell, quite well it would seem.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Why do people always point to the BA and early FG era XR8 and V8 Fairmont Ghia sales figures as "proof" that these types of models wont sell? They had a boat anchor as an engine FFS! Not one bit surprising they didn't sell. Not at all relevant to what Ford could be building now.

I can just as easily point to the SS Commodore and V8 Calais as "proof" that these models do indeed sell, quite well it would seem.

Mostly because the same basic engine was used in the GT which sold quite well.......

[jpd80]

The Barra 220 couldn't get out of its own way, having 220 Kw and 470 nm and the extra weight of a high deck Triton,
it was barely faster than a Barra 180 Falcon I-6 but that didn't stop Ford wacking an $8,000 price premium on an XT V8.

Anyone willing to spend that much money optioning up an XT V8 was quickly directed to the nearest XR8 and shown the difference.
People wanting a V8 Fairmont Ghia wre also shown XR8 with luxury pack, superior V8, better handling and nice interior.

[mik]

Same old.......... same old, a few people wining oh ford oz should spend time and effort and extra money that needs to spent on models we currently have to build a poverty pack v8 to sell very cheaply so that most of said winers would`nt actually go out and buy anyway.
makes sense to me .

[FPV GTHO]

They cant simply treat it as a GS minus supercharger though, they need to prove through development that whatever is different with the car will be up to standard.

[envyyvne]

Easy way around,

xr8 gets the supercharged 315

GS gets the 335

GT gets an intercooled 375

Problem solved

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by envyyvne

Easy way around,

xr8 gets the supercharged 315

GS gets the 335

GT gets an intercooled 375

Problem solved

Except the new problem is you cant sell enough XR8's at $50 +K

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by tweeked

Except the new problem is you cant sell enough XR8's at $50 +K

They can probably do it........
But then people who will never buy one will winge that it doesn't have Brembos all round , it doesn't have the premium interior , is too spartan , doesn't get the wider rear wheels , has limited paint colour options , no stripe package and Ford no longer fit sunroofs from factory...........oh.......and 55k is way to expensive regardless.......and it uses too much fuel.....why isn't there a supercharged diesel option.......

Sound familiar..........

[mik]

Originally Posted by envyyvne

Easy way around,

xr8 gets the supercharged 315

GS gets the 335

GT gets an intercooled 375

Problem solved

that actually might be doable, but the GT-R spec needs somewhere to fit in, maybe???

GT-R spec gets limited warranty race track edition 450+ and manual trans only ?

[FPV_Steve]

Originally Posted by mik

that actually might be doable, but the GT-R spec needs somewhere to fit in, maybe???

GT-R spec gets limited warranty race track edition 450+ and manual trans only ?

The R-Spec was a limited edition run. So there would be no need to fit the R-Spec model into that line up.

The intercooled GT 375 would get the GT R-Spec components + more.

[SSD-85]

If I remember correctly, Ford Oz once stated that they ran into difficulties finding a suitable ECU setup for the Coyote in a Falcon. (Which may have been Fordspeak for the N/A not being able to haul the Falcon at acceptable pace.)

Re-engineering costs aside.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Eagleheart

If I remember correctly, Ford Oz once stated that they ran into difficulties finding a suitable ECU setup for the Coyote in a Falcon. (Which may have been Fordspeak for the N/A not being able to haul the Falcon at acceptable pace.)

Re-engineering costs aside.

Well It would've been quicker than an SS but still slower than a turbo. The ECU problem was Falcon could only handle dual VCT phasers and Coyote has 4. That's why Miami has the exhaust phasers disconnected.

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Well It would've been quicker than an SS but still slower than a turbo. The ECU problem was Falcon could only handle dual VCT phasers and Coyote has 4. That's why Miami has the exhaust phasers disconnected.

Thats right, thanks for the memory jolt

You would imagine that correcting this wouldnt be an expensive exercise though, seriously.

[excopau]

The people at keep bringing this up, XR 8 is dead, you didn't buy it, so why bring back to loose money on it, when 3 people want it?

[FPV GTHO]

New ECU minimum, which may have had issues with the rest of the wiring loom.

Apparently SZ Territory had a new ECU though, and there were alot if rumours that could handle quad phasers and would flow through to Falcon.

[Scradley6666]

Also isn't the 5.0l Coyote without a supercharger underpowered in a vehicle that weighs 1850KG? So they would be producing something that's behind the times in power, speed and affordability. Not viable at all.
So to people saying fit in a N/A coyote, maybe go buy a 290 Boss 5.4L. Would go the same. Or better yet, buy a I6T. If you want the V8 sound, buy a GS and enjoy the few extra luxuries over the XR6 Turbo.
As you can see by my signature, I owned both. I know which one I prefer.