Luxury cars have become terribly common, potentially expensive

[LoudPipes]

Luxury cars have become terribly common, potentially expensive

Date May 26, 2015
Michael Pascoe
BusinessDay contributing editor


Accelerating: New Porsche 911s now sell in bigger numbers than the Volkswagen Beetle that originally spawned it.


It seems the "C" in Mercedes-Benz C class sedan stands for "common": there are more of them being sold this year than Ford Falcons. Include the C class coupes and there are more than Falcons and Toyota Aurions combined.

That says as much about the decline of the Aussie family car as the rise of Mercedes' Car of the Year, but Mercedes overall has lost any claim of being an exclusive brand. More Berlin taxis than Hondas are being driven out of our showrooms.

It's not just Mercedes. Australian sales of the obvious German rivals, BMW and Audi, are booming, too. That's partly thanks to cheaper entry-level models, but also to lower interest rates and fuel prices promoting an extraordinary willingness to splurge on expensive new cars when consumers are supposed to lack confidence and the economy is soft.


C-class models like Mercedes-Benz's C200 are now more commonly bought than much humbler vehicles like the Toyota Aurion or Ford Falcon.


I'll come to a problem building in that for many buyers – and an opportunity for those who are more patient – but first marvel at our new-found indulgence in flashy metal.

Mercedes passenger car sales in the first third of the year are up by 21 per cent, BMW 16 per cent, Audi 14. Total Mercedes vehicle sales, including SUVs and vans, were 11,474 units, up 23 per cent.

But that sort of sales growth is stuck in the slow lane compared with the supercars fanging it down the centre line. The fastest growing segment of the Australian vehicle market is "sports cars over $200,000". Dealers sold 527 vehicles in this category, 30 per cent more than last year.

The breakdown of the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries figures for the first four months of the year confirm new vehicle sales are going gangbusters, on track for a record high – and that's before any rush for cheap utes pre-June 30.

Who cares about utes though when the most expensive cars are growing fastest? In the first four months, Lamborghini sales were up 820 per cent to 46 units. Ferrari sales, 64 of them, were up 107 per cent. Maserati sales quadrupled to 177.

Porsche 911s are a bit pedestrian in this company, but April was a good month for them as 43 were sold, taking the year-to-date total to 148 – up a modest 7 per cent.

While 911 sales growth wasn't speedy, Porsche overall sold 1293 of its V-dubs-on-steroids, 62 per cent more than this time last year. As an exclusivity measure, new Porsche 911s this year are more common than new VW Beetles (78 sold) and Golf cabriolets (114).

By stark comparison, there have been 2029 Falcons bought in the first four months and just 956 Aurions. The increasingly-common Mercedes C class? Try 3264 (the new model up 102 per cent on the old) plus 731 coupes.

Sales of all Merc passenger cars were up 21 per cent to 8126. Sales of all Ford passenger cars were down 41 per cent to 7022. The three-pointed star is leaving the blue oval in the dust.

Sales of all locally manufactured vehicles were down 9 per cent to 28,995 – only 8 per cent of the 359,250 total sales.

If the industry beats the 2013 sales record of 1.136 million, Australians will have purchased nearly 5.5 million new vehicles in five years – rather amazing for a mature market with a population that averaged about 23 million people over that period.

The rise in popularity of the more expensive marques is not limited to Australia. The US is experiencing the same boom with a recent Bloomberg story Low Rates Mean You Can Now Get a Mercedes with a Chevy Income. The story carried the telling subhead: "But should you?"

"This is a tempting time to be a lover of cool cars. Thanks to lease offers, low interest rates, and low gas prices, it's gotten dangerously easy to drive off the dealer lot with a brand new luxury car.

"Buying a used car is almost always a better deal over the long term than buying or leasing a new one. That's the classic personal finance advice, and it still applies. But in recent years the irresponsible choice has gotten a lot more enticing."

Auto loan interest rates tend to feature more prominently in American car selling and are more enticing than the local offerings. And then there's the oil price:

"Gas prices have also tumbled. That has little direct impact on car buyers, but it has a psychological one, says Bloomberg Intelligence senior auto analyst Kevin Tynan. When prices are high, consumers tend to be more conservative. Now that they're low, drivers can feel like using their savings to upgrade their wheels."

Perhaps that's what's happened to the missing petrol price dividend in Australia. Some retailers have complained that consumers haven't been spending the cheaper fuel windfall in their shops – maybe they're too busy buying Masers.

The looming problem for buyers of new wheels though is the greater depreciation that will come with a more crowded used-car market in three years' time when the leases on many vehicles will hit the balloon.

That's the great extra cost of buying a new car – the eye-watering drop in worth as soon as the rubber meets the road. The scarcity value of luxury models has cushioned some of that pain, but it looks like they won't be so scarce along Parramatta road come 2018.

Which is where opportunity knocks for the more patient. However tempting that new thoroughbred might look today, it could be a bargain if you wait a while.


Footnotes of random facts of possible interest to those inclined:

The rise in luxury car sales is all the more remarkable because total passenger car sales are going backwards – the overall growth is in SUVs with a smaller contribution from light commercials.

Passenger car sales were down 10.3 per cent last month and are off 4.4 per cent for the year so far with private, business, government and rental sectors all negative. SUV sales were up 17 per cent for the month and 15.7 this year. In the first third of last year, car sales of 171,344 led SUVs by 63,442 units. This year, the gap has narrowed to 38,889 with 124,885 SUVs sold.

Light commercial sales are up a more modest 4.3 per cent to 61,410. Intriguingly, private sales are where the growth is in this category, up 15.5 per cent to 24,888 units while business sales are down 3.3 per cent. Bring on Happy Joe's sub-$20K van sale for small businesses.

The FCAI figures also provide a fascinating breakdown of 25 countries from which we import vehicles. We bought 2686 Argentine-made vehicles in the first four months, up 6.2 per cent – turns out that delightful but benighted country of rampant protectionism and bad governance is where the VW Amarok is made.

And how the once-mighty Swedes have fallen. We only bought 170 vehicles that were made in Sweden, just ahead of the 155 from Portugal.

Japan is our biggest source with 107,803 vehicles (down 1 per cent), but second-place may be a surprise to those who don't follow the impact of somewhat-free trade agreements and cheaper labour closely: Thailand, with 75,994 units (up 14 per cent). Korea took bronze with 40,762 ahead of Germany's 28,626.

And I have a theory about what is most likely to kill off a model in the Australian market. Of the extraordinarily long list of vehicles sold here this year and last, the following are models that went sale-less in April: J1, Up!, Almera, Corsa, Gen.2, S16, Roomster, Insight, Tilda, Astra, Persona, Fluence, Volt, C30, Insignia, V50, Maxima, Legend, M, Q70, Vito Wagon, Zafira Tourer, Viano, 1 Series coupe/convertible, CR-Z, 207 convertible, Eos, C70, 3 Series coupe/convertible, IS250C, XK, SLS-Class, Aero.

What I suggest they mostly have in common is really dumb names. Seriously, they were trying to sell something called a Roomster. No wonder the Up! is out. How do you drop into a conversation that you're driving an IS250C – it sounds like a standard for toaster wiring – or avoid the suspicion that Fluence suggests flatulence. Heavens knows how the Tilda lasted as long as it did, testimony to the rental car industry's willingness to put punters into any name of whitegoods at a price. Oh sweet Cedric!

http://www.smh.com.au/business/comme...26-gh9v6e.html

[new2ford]

Ford and Holden ending their local models leaves no choice but to step sideways to Europe if you want a practical, well-designed driver's car or crossover with fantastic dynamics. Their future offerings from USA or South Korea are completely uninspiring. No choice but to fork out more dough for a good car.

I had a couple of BMW salesmen telling me recently how Ford was absolutely insane for knocking off the Territory, it was such an outstanding car and showed how well Australians could do and thanks Ford for delivering them customers!

Re Roomster I'd say Yeti has knocked that off - an own goal by Skoda.

I think the brightest light in the Ford stable ATM is the Mondeo. Not sure about Spanish manufacturing standards but maybe they've improved. The Everest with its Australian design also looks good, at least on paper.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Ford and Holden ending their local models leaves no choice but to step sideways to Europe if you want a practical, well-designed driver's car or crossover with fantastic dynamics. Their future offerings from USA or South Korea are completely uninspiring. No choice but to fork out more dough for a good car.

I had a couple of BMW salesmen telling me recently how Ford was absolutely insane for knocking off the Territory, it was such an outstanding car and showed how well Australians could do and thanks Ford for delivering them customers!

Re Roomster I'd say Yeti has knocked that off - an own goal by Skoda.

I think the brightest light in the Ford stable ATM is the Mondeo. Not sure about Spanish manufacturing standards but maybe they've improved. The Everest with its Australian design also looks good, at least on paper.

It is interesting that you leave Japanese made cars out of your equation as they are by far the biggest supplier to Australian market.
Ford didn't knock off Territory , Ford is pulling out of local manufacturing and Territory won't be updated. There will be replacement for it down the track .
Car salesmen talk a lot of crap sometimes , X5 is a completely different price bracket to a Territory.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

It is interesting that you leave Japanese made cars out of your equation as they are by far the biggest supplier to Australian market.

Read my first sentence again!

I've had an old cheap second hand BMW for a while as a "test mule" for owning a second hand Euro and I have to say that my experience is nothing like what's being said above. Good specialist mechanic plus access to much lower cost parts. These guys network (even internationally) like you wouldn't believe.

Plus it's been very reliable, rescuing us a few times when the Ford has "failed to proceed". We call it the "lifeboat"!

[Sam_Boss260]

Originally Posted by new2ford

I've had an old cheap second hand BMW for a while as a "test mule" for owning a second hand Euro and I have to say that my experience is nothing like what's being said above. Good specialist mechanic plus access to much lower cost parts. These guys network (even internationally) like you wouldn't believe.

Plus it's been very reliable, rescuing us a few times when the Ford has "failed to proceed". We call it the "lifeboat"!

I would consider yourself lucky then. Can't count how many stories I've heard first hand from people that are like this;

- 2009 VW Passat Wagon, gearbox shat itself completely just under 4 years. Guys had to trade the car
- 2008-ish Audi A4 wagon, turbo went. Parts alone was something like $4.5k. Traded the car

yes a network and good local mechanic can save on labour and small parts, but turbos, gearboxes etc are expensive.

[AndyXR6T]

It's a no brainer in my eyes. People not only want comfort and styling but also tech and features. What features people use to consider on early model luxury cars are now expected to be 'ordinary' cars of our time now. You have the conservative consumer that will complain that too much tech etc just sounds expensive and you hear the phrase "just more things that can go wrong with it", but in this day and age the tech in cars isn't that expensive anymore. Just time for other manufacturers to step up their game.

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by AndyXR6T

It's a no brainer in my eyes. People not only want comfort and styling but also tech and features. What features people use to consider on early model luxury cars are now expected to be 'ordinary' cars of our time now. You have the conservative consumer that will complain that too much tech etc just sounds expensive and you hear the phrase "just more things that can go wrong with it", but in this day and age the tech in cars isn't that expensive anymore. Just time for other manufacturers to step up their game.

Agreed. I see new cars every day for work and this is exactly what I am seeing. The Koreans started to throw all the features at their cheap cars and the Euros followed suit. They are more expensive but people are finding ways to get into that market. I have many customers with 3 Series and C class Mercs who crossed shopped a Falcon but have consciously down sized for the Euro and the status it brings. Similar money but you get a hell of a lot more and be a snob about it.
In this market now Ford have to give up the Bare Minimum business model and start to have making features standard across the range. Kuga and Ranger without Sat Nav or reverse camera in 2015 etc?

[cheap]

Often hear about people picking up a "bargain" 5 year old luxury/sports Euro cars. Original sticker price +$200,000, they paid $70,000. Or the original owners who hold to their luxury drives beyond the 3-5 year warranty. They soon realise that spare parts and maintenance are priced commensurate to a +$200,000 car. This is the trap that awaits many.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by cheap

They soon realise that spare parts and maintenance are priced commensurate to a +$200,000 car. This is the trap that awaits many.

Like a Jeep?

Seriously though, what you do owning a Euro past warranty is to network into the many excellent specialist mechanics around. You don't stay with the dealer.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Like a Jeep?

Seriously though, what you do owning a Euro past warranty is to network into the many excellent specialist mechanics around. You don't stay with the dealer.

Jeeps are special, they're potential disasters waiting to happen as they sit on the yard, once you leave the yard (assuming your Jeep can actually leave the car yard) the potential is realised

Seriously, dealers labour charges hurt, but prices of ECU's, sensors, Turbos, ABS or any number of "essential peices of equipment" on a second hand luxury Euro, world of pain. Make sure you're sitting down.

[Taily]

All good points and something that is not solely a Euro only issue, but that still doesn't address the fact that items such as $1100.00 (and that was trade!) drivers window regulators, $1400 BCM, $700 load sensing headlights (can't use the standard Euro parts as they are set up to suit driving on the other side of the road), new cylinder heads at greater than $4000.00 each (no, not a misprint)!

And that was just my exerience with an R32 I decided to keep after the new car warranty ran out. All those prices are trade as I am a licenced mechanic with an ABN, even though I no longer work in the industry. I could have bought bits from a wrecker/second hand with a couple of the items but wondered just how much life thse items would have had left in them.

I've heard people lament the cost of US built stuff too as when RHD specific stuff fails it gets real expensive real quick.

Yeah, owning a 5-10 year old Euro is a 'bargain' amd keeping a good mechanic 'near and dear' is a great idea but believe me the ongoing cost of some parts will be seriously eye watering for many people. Besides, much of these techy bits fail often. Anyone remember just how many billions of dollars their DSG debacle cost VW internationally? All because it was rushed through and built by the lowest cost sharing bidder. It almost brought the VW division to its knees financially.

There is much truth to the saying 'There is no such thing as a free lunch'... The vehicles are built to last the warranty period and anything after that is a (very big!) bonus! The hard thing in future to work out is which (lesser) evil a used purchaser will go for...

[Sam_Boss260]

Originally Posted by cheap

Often hear about people picking up a "bargain" 5 year old luxury/sports Euro cars. Original sticker price +$200,000, they paid $70,000. Or the original owners who hold to their luxury drives beyond the 3-5 year warranty. They soon realise that spare parts and maintenance are priced commensurate to a +$200,000 car. This is the trap that awaits many.

I think this is the relevant point here. owning a luxury car is one thing, but being able to maintain it properly is another. And if you go around to build that 'network' parts are still expensive. My best mate is in the car business and always recommends that for BMW, Audi, Volvo, Mercedes, as soon as the warranty goes or at around 80,000kms to get rid of the car, unless you are willing to start forking out a couple grand per year on things that go wrong. e.g. 2009 5 series Beemer that is having a gearbox play up is costing the owner up to $10k. So what does do? Flips the car of course.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by cheap

Often hear about people picking up a "bargain" 5 year old luxury/sports Euro cars. Original sticker price +$200,000, they paid $70,000. Or the original owners who hold to their luxury drives beyond the 3-5 year warranty. They soon realise that spare parts and maintenance are priced commensurate to a +$200,000 car. This is the trap that awaits many.

I recently (4 weeks ago) purchased an Audi A5 Cabriolet with 40k on the clock for high 40's drive away. Original sticker price including 20 inch rims, $128k

Am in the market for a CLS500 and you regularly see 5 year old examples at around $70-$80k mark, original cost around $225k

[xxx000]

it shows just how wealthy we really are overall despite the gloom and doom talk by some politicians and some media

[cheap]

Originally Posted by xxx000

it shows just how wealthy we really are overall despite the gloom and doom talk by some politicians and some media

It is an illusion based on housing prices perpetually going up, easy finance with very low interest rates. Ask the people from the mining towns how easy things can change. Many people are doing it tough.

[mik]

Originally Posted by xxx000

it shows just how wealthy we really are overall despite the gloom and doom talk by some politicians and some media

Either that or we have a lot more people putting themselves in hock up to the eyeballs.
My mate told me a while ago how his pregnant unemployed daughter rocked up to a car yard by herself and signed up for a brand new small car and got it while on the dole .

Years ago if you went for a loan or to buy a car without employment or at least a deposit or collateral or your father's signature(if he would give it) as a guarantor it would be please come back later....... Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Squalo]

^ Agreed. We as a society are not wealthy at all... the top 10 percent maybe, but not the rest of us.

What we are seeing is the result of a decade or two of 'aspirational' attitudes. In other words, everyone deserves the best, and by god they'll have it one way or another.

Back in the day, you bought an Alfa or a BMW when you'd 'arrived'. In other words, you'd put the effort in, climbed the social ladder, earned the rewards.

Now you just go out and buy it because that's how you earn your social status these days. Via consumerism.

[SumoDog68]

Sales of all Merc passenger cars were up 21 per cent to 8126. Sales of all Ford passenger cars were down 41 per cent to 7022. The three-pointed star is leaving the blue oval in the dust.

I don't think Mercedes is outselling Ford ...

[Cav]

Why do we need auto headlights, auto wipers, adjacent lane warning, wander over white line warning, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Oh and why if you don't have a warning light for seat belts in the rear seats the car will not get a 5 star rating.

The car world has gone mad.

More stuff to go wrong.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Cav

Why do we need auto headlights, auto wipers, adjacent lane warning, wander over white line warning, yadda, yadda, yadda.

.

How is that Beta video recorder going? Did you see Ansett have a special on flights Syd/melb this week...only $999 return ?

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Spammy

How is that Beta video recorder going? Did you see Ansett have a special on flights Syd/melb this week...only $999 return ?

Good one Spammy. Yep I did indeed have a Betacord video recorder. The picture was superior to VHS and there was room on the tape for stereo sound. The story goes that the reason VHS took off in the market is that porn videos were made on VHS and not Beta.

I flew Ansett a few times in the late 60s, but TAA had better looking sheilas.

Sheilas? Now there's a term you don't hear about these dazes.

[BA GT-HO]

Always the same old lines trotted out about Euro cars

'Oh once it breaks down you will pay! I knew a friend of a friends, dogs, cousins room mate who had to pay $14,000 for a new part coz its a Euro car!'

Well guess what, how many of us that own local cars go and pay the stupid 'genuine part' prices at the dealer when something breaks on the car (and usually breaks far more often being a local car). If you do your an idiot. There are always cheaper ways, the magic of the internet.

God help you if you are still under warranty, the local dealers won't want to know you.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Always the same old lines trotted out about Euro cars

'Oh once it breaks down you will pay! I knew a friend of a friends, dogs, cousins room mate who had to pay $14,000 for a new part coz its a Euro car!'

Well guess what, how many of us that own local cars go and pay the stupid 'genuine part' prices at the dealer when something breaks on the car (and usually breaks far more often being a local car). If you do your an idiot. There are always cheaper ways, the magic of the internet.

God help you if you are still under warranty, the local dealers won't want to know you.

Not only that, a few of the parts on the local cars are actually not made here and are shared with these Euro cars too.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by BA GT-HO

Always the same old lines trotted out about Euro cars

'Oh once it breaks down you will pay! I knew a friend of a friends, dogs, cousins room mate who had to pay $14,000 for a new part coz its a Euro car!'

Well guess what, how many of us that own local cars go and pay the stupid 'genuine part' prices at the dealer when something breaks on the car (and usually breaks far more often being a local car). If you do your an idiot. There are always cheaper ways, the magic of the internet.

God help you if you are still under warranty, the local dealers won't want to know you.

I guess you own an an X5 ? Didn't think so :-)
Reality is generally between the two extremes. Big $$ euros out of warranty can be financial liability . Fault finding complex electronic / mechanical systems cost time , equipment and ultimately money.
Why do you think there are specialist euro brands mechanics if anyone can fix them through Magic of Internet ?
Once geartronic or DSG packs up, there are not many options and they are all costly . Not to mention bmw plastic cooling systems .
Nice cars when they work but upkeep cost more on average than local or Japanese car.

[Express]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

I guess you own an an X5 ? Didn't think so :-)
Reality is generally between the two extremes. Big $$ euros out of warranty can be financial liability . Fault finding complex electronic / mechanical systems cost time , equipment and ultimately money.
Why do you think there are specialist euro brands mechanics if anyone can fix them through Magic of Internet ?
Once geartronic or DSG packs up, there are not many options and they are all costly . Not to mention bmw plastic cooling systems .
Nice cars when they work but upkeep cost more on average than local or Japanese car.

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

First you need to know which part(s) - trouble shooting is the hard part of the equation :-)

Euros aren’t some secret society were only the privileged are in the know.

Ask a question on the Forums like you would here and you’ll get an answer.

The difference is the forums are much bigger than say this one because the Euros have world membership.

A USA forum will have members from all around the globe and many are very knowledgeable people plus employees from the manufacturers hang out there as well.

Most things that go wrong with a Euro are not any different than what goes wrong with other makes.

You can just as easily have a niggling hard to diagnose problem with a Ford as you can with a German car.

Local repairs who look after Euros know the ins and outs, use them if you can’t figure out what repairs your car needs, they can also source the parts and do the fix.

The old Euro mystery comes from the days when the only way to search info was on foot or by a phone directory, the world has moved on and the brands are now global and so is the info for them.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Express

Euros aren’t some secret society were only the privileged are in the know.

Ask a question on the Forums like you would here and you’ll get an answer.

Umm hell no. The BMW forums that I have perused are full to the brim with members who have a disgusting attitude of elitism and superiority. Asking a question like someone might ask here will result in one of two things 95% of the time: zero replies to a thread or one loaded with "do a search cawkhead" or "if you can't afford to take the car to a dealer you shouldn't own a BMW". The attitude disgusts me.

I no longer own a Ford but I still stick around as the membership by and large is composed of non-elitist snobs.

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Umm hell no. The BMW forums that I have perused are full to the brim with members who have a disgusting attitude of elitism and superiority. Asking a question like someone might ask here will result in one of two things 95% of the time: zero replies to a thread or one loaded with "do a search cawkhead" or "if you can't afford to take the car to a dealer you shouldn't own a BMW". The attitude disgusts me.

I no longer own a Ford but I still stick around as the membership by and large is composed of non-elitist snobs.

I’ve seen that train take off on forums for the local cars as well where some members are quick with the “do a search” line.

I can’t say I’ve suffered the problem myself as I do tend to search a subject first and if I have further questions I post it in the most suitable existing thread I’ve found.

Forum courtesy is a two way street.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Express

Euros aren’t some secret society were only the privileged are in the know.

Ask a question on the Forums like you would here and you’ll get an answer.

The difference is the forums are much bigger than say this one because the Euros have world membership.

A USA forum will have members from all around the globe and many are very knowledgeable people plus employees from the manufacturers hang out there as well.

Most things that go wrong with a Euro are not any different than what goes wrong with other makes.

You can just as easily have a niggling hard to diagnose problem with a Ford as you can with a German car.

Local repairs who look after Euros know the ins and outs, use them if you can’t figure out what repairs your car needs, they can also source the parts and do the fix.

The old Euro mystery comes from the days when the only way to search info was on foot or by a phone directory, the world has moved on and the brands are now global and so is the info for them.

There is no euro mystery , fact is those cars are significantly more complex in their design and execution . Euro cars are not easy to work on .
For mechanically minded masochistic enthusiast who has got a spare car to drive while researching forums and ordering parts from overseas I would say yes , otherwise stay clear for average turn key owner :-)

[LoudPipes]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

There is no euro mystery , fact is those cars are significantly more complex in their design and execution . Euro cars are not easy to work on .
For mechanically minded masochistic enthusiast who has got a spare car to drive while researching forums and ordering parts from overseas I would say yes , otherwise stay clear for average turn key owner :-)

Almost all mechanical products with circuit boards and processors become more complex as they evolve.

The manufacturers that put them into production also teach and document how to fault find and repair.

Manufacturers make sure their authorised repairers evolve with them and that knowledge flows into the mainstream industry.

You aren’t honestly saying some Japanese, Asian, UK and American cars aren’t complex in their design and construction.

The average owner is not a mechanic, they take their vehicles to someone who is and if they are concerned about the cost they find independent repairers.

The same applies to owners of cheaper or less complex cars who are looking for lower cost service options.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

There is no euro mystery , fact is those cars are significantly more complex in their design and execution . Euro cars are not easy to work on .
For mechanically minded masochistic enthusiast who has got a spare car to drive while researching forums and ordering parts from overseas I would say yes , otherwise stay clear for average turn key owner :-)

No car is easy to work on anymore really, gives me the ***** the way a lot of stuff is designed.

The benefits dealerships have is that they will be doing work on all their new products, so they only work on a small amount of models but they work on them so often they know everything there is to know, all the little tips and tricks to get stuff done easily.

Originally Posted by Cav

Good one Spammy. Yep I did indeed have a Betacord video recorder. The picture was superior to VHS and there was room on the tape for stereo sound. The story goes that the reason VHS took off in the market is that porn videos were made on VHS and not Beta.

I flew Ansett a few times in the late 60s, but TAA had better looking sheilas.

Sheilas? Now there's a term you don't hear about these dazes.

I'm pretty sure thats actually correct, the porn industry had a huge sway in the format wars of the 1980s.

If not I say we re-write history and put in that they were the reason, for lols.