How black boxes for cars could improve road safety

[Bill M]

ANU physics researcher Murray Hollis believes there is a simple way to dramatically cut the number of road deaths in Australia per year, install a ‘black box’ that knows where you are and if you’re speeding in every car on the road.


More here...

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...safety/6572416

[Silver Ghia]

Will it detect driver inattention, distraction, inappropriate speed for a particular section of road (which can be below the speed limit), or incompetent driving? Which is the main cause of deaths on the road.

Its not just exceeding the speed limit that kills.

Authorities (and this guy) tend to put all the aforementioned reasons in the one basket.

[joolz]

So in other words its a GPS. This has been floated before and will be the end of speed cameras. If anywhere you speed the unit will detect it and a fine will be in the mail...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by joolz

So in other words its a GPS. This has been floated before and will be the end of speed cameras. If anywhere you speed the unit will detect it and a fine will be in the mail...

Nah automotive workshops will retrofit fax machines that work over the mobile network, every time you go 1km/h over the speed limit the ICC in your car flashes and lights up 777!!!!!!!!!!!! like a pokie machine jackpot and the fax machine spits out fines into your lap like mad.

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Nah automotive workshops will retrofit fax machines that work over the mobile network, every time you go 1km/h over the speed limit the ICC in your car flashes and lights up 777!!!!!!!!!!!! like a pokie machine jackpot and the fax machine spits out fines into your lap like mad.

More likely your account will be accessed by direct debit and you will only know when you check your statement

[2011G6E]

We've got those in the work cars..."BigMate"...little pickup on top of the dashboard.

Apparently if you have a snack in the car...say, a chocolate bar...and go to throw the foil wrapper out the window and it accidentally lands on top of the pickup, the system will go offline. Terrible design flaw...

[GasoLane]

The article's main title is wrong, it should read "Black Box's in cars will make post crash data easier to obtain" .

This Academic's thinking seems to comes from a similar group of Canberra scholars who, during the last drought, wanted to sue NSW Farmers for allowing their farms to be run down, thereby causing all the dust blowing into the ACT (true story!)

[Trump]

So much potential for abuse from the authorities would render any usefulness irrelevant.

[CyberWasp]

Just build cars out of Black Box material and the problem is solved.

[new2ford]

Hasn't it already been possible for some years to access data from a car's computer after accidents?

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Hasn't it already been possible for some years to access data from a car's computer after accidents?

No.

Black box is a good way to help determine factors that contributed to an accident but will not improve directly safety.

Unless it can record driver information, especially if tired, on phone or changing music on Ipod.

[Bill M]

From 2011...

Many modern cars are equipped with an event data recorder (EDR) that stores crash information in a similar way to the ''black box'' flight recorder used in aircraft.

Sergeant Brett Samuel of Sydney's Metropolitan Crash Investigation Unit says police have dabbled in using EDRs and that their use in investigations will soon be common.

''It's coming,'' he says.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/c...20111103-1mw8n

[FPV414]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Hasn't it already been possible for some years to access data from a car's computer after accidents?

Originally Posted by LTDHO

No.

Black box is a good way to help determine factors that contributed to an accident but will not improve directly safety.

Unless it can record driver information, especially if tired, on phone or changing music on Ipod.

Wrong LTDHO.

The RCM (Restraints Control Module) fitted from BA to current records crash data upon deployment of any of the Airbags. It records speed 5 seconds prior to crash, at impact (airbag deployment / sensor activation) and 5 seconds post crash. It also records whether seatbelts were worn, RPM, gear etc.

RCM has to be removed and sent to Ford IIRC.

There's an episode of NZ's "Serious Crash Unit" that has a FG F6 involved, and the RCM is discussed in fair detail.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by FPV414

Wrong LTDHO.

The RCM (Restraints Control Module) fitted from BA to current records crash data upon deployment of any of the Airbags. It records speed 5 seconds prior to crash, at impact (airbag deployment / sensor activation) and 5 seconds post crash. It also records whether seatbelts were worn, RPM, gear etc.

RCM has to be removed and sent to Ford IIRC.

There's an episode of NZ's "Serious Crash Unit" that has a FG F6 involved, and the RCM is discussed in fair detail.

So the RCM can record driver information, especially if tired, on phone or changing music on Ipod?

I didn't know BA had these sensors???????

[happy1]

One of the insurance companies are already pushing this GPS black box to their customers. http://www.qbe.com.au/Personal/Insur...Insurance.html

It looks like it transmits data back to the insurance company, probably via GSM/SMS, and collects your speed and other statistics to a server somewhere.

As they say; 'We sample your driving to verify your driving style and the use of your car. In return we provide you with your own DriveScore and feedback on your driving style. This feedback can help you become an even better driver.'

I guess I'm an experienced lead foot driver (still without loosing too many demerit points, or having any accidents) so I'm a customer with another insurance company ;)

[new2ford]

Holy smoke, that's scary big brother stuff. How do they assess the obvious fact that some of the best drivers drive at a fast clip because they're alert and experienced whereas some of the most dangerous are slow dopey ones who create road hazards? Part of the great dumbing down of driving skills.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by new2ford

Holy smoke, that's scary big brother stuff. How do they assess the obvious fact that some of the best drivers drive at a fast clip because they're alert and experienced whereas some of the most dangerous are slow dopey ones who create road hazards? Part of the great dumbing down of driving skills.

The BigMate system at work records a staggering amount of data...everything including (deep breath): speed, location, seat belts done up, handbrake applied while parked, acceleration, deceleration, cornering speeds, change of direction speeds, lights on/off, angle of the vehicle, braking, if you fart while cornering...the lot.

One guy was chatted over "severe change of speed"...which is classed by the software as something like "deceleration of -20kph/second" or something. All of us suspected what happened immediately given the roads out here at night...a big roo jumped out in front of them, they hit the brakes. However he had a lot of explaining to do. Another car did a U-turn on the highway and it went over and through a couple of fairly steeply-sloped table drains...no big deal, it wasn't a violent manuever, we saw them do it. However an alert came through to the supervisors saying a vehicle had "either been in a roll over or the direction and angle changes show they were hooning or something on a dirt road" (cutting circles I imagine).

More worryingly, another guy was facing very serious questions as it showed he was doing 170kph on the Beef Road north of Dingo. He was in deep crap for quite a while there until someone thought to look at the speed graph...it went from a steady 100 to jump to 170kph and back to 100...within four seconds. Obviously they never told us about fitting supercharged 6000hp top-fuel engines to the Prado's...
The same car had another alert come through when it was clocked doing 150kph...and when the supervisor checked it was outside his window sitting in the parking lot with no one in it.


Which is all fun and games until someone looks like losing their job over it...or, say, an insurance company declines you cover because part of the data logger shows you were "speeding" even if you weren't...far too many people (and the authorities) honestly think GPS is an absolutely flawless, 100% accurate system. When it isn't...

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

cornering speeds,

My god, if cornering speeds is a criterion I would have lost my licence about 123 million times in the last 40 years!

My first couple of cars were BMC Minis. One of their advertising slogans was "we've marketed the corner". I've driven that way ever since

You'd be accustomed to this sort of regime on rails. There's been a lot of discussion in Sydney that one reason for the slowdown of trains has been over-zealous monitoring of driver performance and clamping down on individual driver initiative e.g. to recover late running.

There was a story from the NSW railways in the 1950s that the engineers introducing the diesel locos to replace steam were puzzling over why the diesels couldn't better the running times of the steam locos in practice, even though all the technical theory said they should - until a couple of drivers pointed out to them that the diesels had speedometers, the steamers didn't!

We live in the age of the great dumbing-down here. Thank goodness I'm in the last decades of my licence, it won't be the same without the fun. I can't afford to go to Europe every time I want a decent drive.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

The BigMate system at work records a staggering amount of data...everything including (deep breath): speed, location, seat belts done up, handbrake applied while parked, acceleration, deceleration, cornering speeds, change of direction speeds, lights on/off, angle of the vehicle, braking, if you fart while cornering...the lot.

One guy was chatted over "severe change of speed"...which is classed by the software as something like "deceleration of -20kph/second" or something. All of us suspected what happened immediately given the roads out here at night...a big roo jumped out in front of them, they hit the brakes. However he had a lot of explaining to do. Another car did a U-turn on the highway and it went over and through a couple of fairly steeply-sloped table drains...no big deal, it wasn't a violent manuever, we saw them do it. However an alert came through to the supervisors saying a vehicle had "either been in a roll over or the direction and angle changes show they were hooning or something on a dirt road" (cutting circles I imagine).

More worryingly, another guy was facing very serious questions as it showed he was doing 170kph on the Beef Road north of Dingo. He was in deep crap for quite a while there until someone thought to look at the speed graph...it went from a steady 100 to jump to 170kph and back to 100...within four seconds. Obviously they never told us about fitting supercharged 6000hp top-fuel engines to the Prado's...
The same car had another alert come through when it was clocked doing 150kph...and when the supervisor checked it was outside his window sitting in the parking lot with no one in it.


Which is all fun and games until someone looks like losing their job over it...or, say, an insurance company declines you cover because part of the data logger shows you were "speeding" even if you weren't...far too many people (and the authorities) honestly think GPS is an absolutely flawless, 100% accurate system. When it isn't...

Not the most reliable things. We had a no right turn near work so they programmed it to alert them if anyone turned right. About 30 seconds after turning left one day the car phone rang and asked why we turned right. The guy driving was one of those people who worry too much. He thought he was going to be disinclined for doing the "wrong thing"

[1TUFFUTE]

After reading about the "big mate" system....I think the best option is to just install an 'empty' black box in people's cars, and tell them it'll bust you if your speeding in an accident.
Skip the tech and all the glitches....mind games will work just fine

[Franco Cozzo]

We had the sales rep from Launch (automotive diagnostic company) show us their new car tracker thing, works via GPS, monitors the OBDII output from the car and sends the information via Telstra's mobile network, it records all sort of data and can send it to phones and PCs about where the car was driven, how long it was driven for, where on google maps its gone, how fast its going, engine data like revs, fuel usage etc.

You can pull it up any time you want, assuming the car is within Telstra's mobile coverage, if not it records and you can view it later.

We're looking at it as an option for one of our customers who has an issue with their drivers getting fines and then claiming no one was driving the car

[MercurySilver]

lol at big brother

big brothers been around for 30 odd years

[flightstrike]

Been using this type of technology in aircraft for years! Not just the Black Box, but another system that sends "live" data back to HQ.
They know before we do that something has exceeded a tolerance and we have a "please explain" meeting shortly after landing!
Issue is, the system isn't error free...

[STINKY NINJA]

What a rubbish idea,i hate it!

[2011G6E]

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Bill M

ANU physics researcher Murray Hollis believes there is a simple way to dramatically cut the number of road deaths in Australia per year, install a ‘black box’ that knows where you are and if you’re speeding in every car on the road.

1. it won't prevent any deaths unless it can interveen to stop an accident happening. all it will do it point out who was most likely at fault

2. a 'black box' is so named as data goes in but doesn't go out, so it's not a black box if it's sending data somewhere

[Bill M]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

1. it won't prevent any deaths unless it can interveen to stop an accident happening. all it will do it point out who was most likely at fault

2. a 'black box' is so named as data goes in but doesn't go out, so it's not a black box if it's sending data somewhere

Thank you,

I agree wholeheartedly with point 1.

Point 2 "black box" is Murray Hollis' description not mine hence the quotation marks.

cheers
Bill

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

1. it won't prevent any deaths unless it can interveen to stop an accident happening. all it will do it point out who was most likely at fault

2. a 'black box' is so named as data goes in but doesn't go out, so it's not a black box if it's sending data somewhere

Point 1.......yeah, but neither does speed cameras. But a black box will do far more efficiently what they keep sprouting is the purpose of speed cams...slow people down. If everyone had one....there's zero doubt it'd be on everyone's mind to watch their speed in case they cause an accident.....instead of just where they see a speed cam or police. I see huge potential......for this to get burnt to hell....as it'll cost the govco cash

[danzvtil]

If you carry a smart phone around with you, they can track your location etc already.
In my job interview they asked if I objected to being tracked, as a previous employee spent more time at the TAB than on the road with customers. They stated that they didn't like doing it but had to track this guy after they suspected something was a miss.
I said, im driving your car, using your phone, on your time clock, so I have no problem.
Although, many issues come up with govco/insurance looking over your shoulder, I often think about getting a dash cam to record all the numpties I deal with day to day, but always come back to the fact that it may incriminate ME, one day swearing at another motorist.

[joolz]

Could also be used to track how many kilometres you travel and then tax you accordingly instead of an annual registration. Too bad for those that have no choice but to buy houses a large distance from work.