Must all Car Salesmen graduate from @%$hole school?

[Crazy Dazz]

Yes, I am once again in the market for a car, and once again hating the encounters.

I'd be seriously interested in hearing from any members who are actually car salespeople.

I honestly cannot understand the mentality of your entire industry.
I can go to Woolies to buy a pint of milk, and the gormless pimply 15yr old, on minimum wage, will smile, say hello, and treat me with courtesy. Presumably they have been trained to do this, and presumably at some point somebody has explained to them that "manners cost nothing."

Anybody in business that involves any form of customer service has learnt that not only do manners cost nothing, but you get more bees with honey, assorted other cliches, and at least knows that unless you hold a monopoly on an essential product, treating people with respect is invariably good for business.

So how have these lessons completely bypassed the motor industry?
I'd seriously like to know if being a rude, abusive, @%$hole has ever clinched the sale for you?

For starters, I am ****ed that I even have to be involved in this process.
The cars I'm looking at, are pos with iPhone docks and 7yr warranties. The manufacturer has invested their future in marketing cars to females, on the clear understanding that ladies are the majority buyer of these products.
So why are car yards still patrolled by club-wielding Neanderthals in loin-clothes, sniffing their own armpits?
My daughter, who is 24 years old and currently completing her Masters in Clinical Psychology, has been treated with such rudeness and disrespect that she refuses to visit car yards or talk to salesmen.

Even salesmen who start out chummy, eventually revert to rude, @%$hole type behaviour. Refusing to answer even SIMPLE questions.
We're looking for a sedan, simple. No messing anyone about.
The ad clearly states that it's a sedan. The photo (which is not always of the actual car) clearly shows a hatch. Is it really so difficult to tell me which it is?
Another states "You pay only $15,000 (with $3,000 'minimum trade-in')." Is it really that flaming unreasonable to enquire as to the price without any trade?
A new car is $19k drive-away. You have a 2 year old car with 30,000kms advertised for the same price. Am I really being such a "time-waster" enquiring if your price is the least bit flexible?

[Phildo]

www.pickles.com.au

www.manheim.com.au

Buy where the dealers get their cars from.

The car market in Perth is also crap right now. Dealers are selling way less than they used to.

Still, no excuse for letting desperation get in the way of things.

Quite the opposite - tell the girl that your income is crap at the moment, and you'll do whatever you can to flog her a car.

Get her into the office. Get a tea/coffee/whatever. Ask questions about what she's after, take some notes and then go find something suitable. ie be her "car broker"

Honesty has its moments.

[Ben73]

Can't say I have had too many that are rude, but a lot seam to talk ****. Usually by showing you stuff you are not interested in or changing the subject when you ask a question they don't want to answer.

[tonys6550]

It's certainly a draining experience isn't it hahaha

I'm told there are good sales-people out there.......somewhere

Good luck with it all.

[Stefan]

Don't rely on the salesman at all, you said in an earlier thread you don't care how it drives, you just warranty.

By the time I walk into a car yard I know what I want and know the car that I'm there to see and price i'm willing to pay for it. I just need to look at it and confirm service history, condition or whatever.

Inspect it, drive it, make an offer or move on. Don't ask many questions you get less BS.

[roddy1960]

G'day...Back in March when I bought my XR6 , I got a female sales consultant. To be totally honest , although the mechanical stuff was handled by one of the mechanics , the trade and actual deal was really easy and straight forward with a lot of courtesy from her. She got quick answers for me on my queries on the car tech stuff and organised a spare set of keys quickly when needed , and helped organise an easy collection of the car on delivery day..So impressed with the service , and a big box of chocolates when she found out it was my birthday that I sent the Sales Manager my highest compliments..A few days later Kerryn (sales consultant) checked in with me to ask if everything was okay with the car..I was VERY IMPRESSED...This was a Ford dealership too..Wouldn't it be great if the ones you describe could be more like my sales consultant..as you say.."good manners cost nothing "..Cheers Rod..

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Can't say I have had too many that are rude, but a lot seam to talk ****. Usually by showing you stuff you are not interested in or changing the subject when you ask a question they don't want to answer.

That is so true.
I approached a car salesman, he listened to us for about a 10 seconds then made the statement " I know exactly the car you want", really?
Last car I bought from a car dealer, I had researched the s--t out of it online before going to have a look. The salesperson was a young lady and she was extremely pleasant to us and offered a good trade in price so we bought the vehicle.
Being employed by the same business as the salespeople has allowed me to get to know these guys away from their work. They're the same mix of good and bad as the rest of society in IMHO.

[SumoDog68]

Interesting situation - you would think that someone with a degree in Psychology would be prepared for their antics. Car salesmen are not that hard to work with and ultimately if you don't like them or their product - it is easy to walk away (apart from time wasting while doing that). If you think that their product is pos they might sense that and react accordingly.
I am not a big fan of dealing with them but my rules are - treat them with respect, do your research and don't look for their opinions ,suggestions. Test drive as many cars in category as you can - once you have decided on the car get the deal .
Find out what good price is (forums are good source of info) , make them an offer . Asking if they are flexible on a price is not how to do it. Make an offer and you will find out how flexible they are , if you are not committed to buying don't talk price .
Last car we bought , salesman did not have to say anything (maybe 3 short sentences in total). I test drove the car , knew all about it and made an offer which was accepted after some ceremonial bargaining.

[Craig@AUDI]

For all the nighmares you've dealth with, there's an equal amount of them as customers too!

Both parties can make a transaction harder than it needs to be.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Interesting situation - you would think that someone with a degree in Psychology would be prepared for their antics.

She is not yet qualified to prescribe strong anti-psychotic medications, which is clearly what some require.

[falconhell74]

the other way to do it is to tell the sales man that you are after a small car with this that and the other etc you are willing to pay up to X amount , what do you have?

[mike_nofx]

I don't have a great deal of experience with sales people but I have heard quite a few stories of how being rude is an effective deal sealer.

A mate just sold his house and the sales lady he got from this particular real estate agent is a known rude ******. BUT she also makes the most sales. My mate found her a little difficult to deal with but she sold the house fast and for a good price.

Another person I know sells campervans, he attends the camping shows and gets the usual tyre kickers, people who are probably playing the role of the uninterested buyer to try get a better price. He will use lines like "If you're not going to buy one, move on, I'm busy here", Its amazing how many people get their wallet out and place an order after being talked to like that.

No idea why it works, but it seems like it just does. Possibly because most people are sheep and need to be told what to do, those that dislike that treatment just walk away. Its often the older sales people who are the rudest, those in the industry for 30+ years, surely by now they know what works, and if they're rude and still employed for that long, well it must work.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

I don't have a great deal of experience with sales people but I have heard quite a few stories of how being rude is an effective deal sealer.

That depends on the customer. It wouldn't work with me, for instance, I'd just walk away and vow never to come back. Same with pushy salespeople.

Originally Posted by JAJH

the customer who is polite, engages in conversation and doesn't demand anything will usually get the best deal because they don't ask or expect it. It's always a 2 way street when dealing with people.

Perhaps I'm just naïve, but that's the way I look at it too. I don't treat people like crap unless they give me a reason to do so.

I recently bought a car and the experience couldn't have been more pleasant. I couldn't possibly have asked for better service from the salesperson I got. He went above and beyond and did everything I asked for to make me happy. It took me several months and several test drives in different conditions before I actually signed, and during that time, not once did I feel I was being pushed into the deal.

There are good salespeople out there. Unfortunately, the bad ones tarnish the reputation of the industry as a whole.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Another person I know sells campervans, he attends the camping shows and gets the usual tyre kickers, people who are probably playing the role of the uninterested buyer to try get a better price. He will use lines like "If you're not going to buy one, move on, I'm busy here", Its amazing how many people get their wallet out and place an order after being talked to like that.

When I come across people like him I move on and buy off someone else.

Buying a vehicle is a pretty big decision. I struggle to buy a car the same day I first approach the dealership/yard. I need time to think, I can't commit too quickly. When the salesperson is pushy that is a huge turn off and makes me want to move on and deal with someone with some manners.
It's not like you are buying a washing machine or some other appliance for a few hundred dollars.
I believe people who buy the first car they look at have either done their research and know what they want, are lazy, or are a pushover.

I am assuming your mate went and bought the first house he looked at after putting a deposit on it within the first 15 minutes of viewing it? I mean those real estate agents are busy, just buy the house quickly so they can get back to work. Screw those pesky building and pest reports, just buy the damn house off the busy estate agent.

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

And after we said we'd be going to Nissan, Honda and Ford he laughed in our faces and started bagging the life out of them and asked why would be even bother going.

In my time in sales I never once bagged the opposition product, if the product you're selling is good enough you don't have to.

I have never understood those people.
When we were looking for a car for my fiance, we actually had two different salesmen say good things about the other brands we were looking at.
Looking for her car we didn't come across any bad salespeople which was refreshing. But every time I have been in the market for a car, I have came across at least one dodgy one

Originally Posted by JAJH

I, too have been in the sales game for 30 years and I think a good percentage of the public have it backwards. The media has instilled the idea into the public to "shop around, do your homework, get quotes, blah, blah, blah".

I am assuming when you need a tradie to do a big job, you just call up the first company you come across and pay whatever they charge?

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Ben73

...

I am assuming when you need a tradie to do a big job, you just call up the first company you come across and pay whatever they charge?

Funny you should say that.

I was in the motor vehicle sales industry for 15 years. I can be a push over at times because I have seen the other side of sales. I sometimes will buy simply because I have appreciated their sales craft.

Comparing salepersons to retail staff is not a fair comparison. Try going into Woolies and asking the pimply faced 15 yo kid a thousand questions about a product and then argue with him about the answers that he gives you and see how long he keeps smiling.

[2011G6E]

Haven't met "bad" car salesman..."Lazy", "Obnoxious", "Condescending", "bored"...yes, but not outright nasty.

And being rushed? Nope, not going to work on me. I like to take my time figuring out if that's going to be the car for me, even a second hand one. I'll probably be back a couple of times to look at the car...or cars...until I make up my mind.
Given the high price we pay for new cars (and second hand ones) in Australia you can't blame people for not rushing into things.
Couple that with the very wide choice of news cars...and if you're honest there's not really such a thing as "a bad new car" these days...and the variety on hand, you would think that salesmen would be falling over themselves to make you their friend and convince you to buy their car instead of one of the many others which are very similar.

[PepeLePew]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Haven't met "bad" car salesman..."Lazy", "Obnoxious", "Condescending", "bored"...yes, but not outright nasty.

<SNIP>

This i subscribe to, but it happens in all walks. It's like any job, if you don't fit it, move right along. I have a 'regular' at a Ford dealership i use. Personable, slow to reply sometimes, can get my sometimes complex wants in a twist, but NEVER loses the front end. I keep going back.

I had a 'remote' sale with Wanneroo Mazda in Perth. Fantastic experience, great sales guy, responsive, always courteous. Never felt like they were trying to shake us off.

Recent experience with a Ford dealer in SA not so hot. I'll hold that story but moral is, I'd return to the first two. Good service buys loyalty when you are brand loyal and return to the same brands. There is more to a sale than just whats in front of you on the moment.

[JAJH]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I am assuming when you need a tradie to do a big job, you just call up the first company you come across and pay whatever they charge?

If I had done my due diligence and knew what I wanted and what the going rate should be then yes, I may take the first price. It all comes down to the ability of the salesperson. The old saying goes,"if you like the salesperson, you believe him. If you believe him, you trust him. If you trust him, you will buy from him".

[Pedro]

Craig is on the money.
I have been in sales for most of my working life, selling cars, real estate, business systems, jewellery, etc.. There are different selling disciplines, depending on what you are selling.
In the case of car sales, a prospect walks onto your lot and you have to work hard and fast to capture the sale, because this is your only chance. If the prospect walks ... there goes part of your pay cheque. So car sales people go for the close from the opening dialog and sometimes this can seem/be aggressive, depending on the expertise of the salesperson.

[JAJH]

I, too have been in the sales game for 30 years and I think a good percentage of the public have it backwards. The media has instilled the idea into the public to "shop around, do your homework, get quotes, blah, blah, blah". But what they don't realize is the amount of the salespersons'/company time they waste by doing so and this has a knock on effect on the cost of the service or goods, and in turn the salesperson will naturally become wary of the tyre kicker. Not very person who walks into a caryard or retailer is there to buy. Some people will just wander in for a look and either ignore the salesperson or just take up their time with no intention of buying. If you treat the salesperson with disinterest/disrespect you cant really expect to be treated any different. The customer who demands a discount or a better deal will rarely get one from me, yet the customer who is polite, engages in conversation and doesn't demand anything will usually get the best deal because they don't ask or expect it. It's always a 2 way street when dealing with people.
I have always been a critic and advocate for the salesperson and remember a quote a famous person said years ago, "if the salespeople of the world went on strike tomorrow, the world's economy would collapse in a week". It might sound a bit over-dramatic but nothing in the world gets bought if someone didn't sell it first.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by JAJH

If you treat the salesperson with disinterest/disrespect you cant really expect to be treated any different.

While I imagine much of the work is commission based, I'd still expect a salesperson to remain polite and respectful because they're being paid a base salary to do exactly that. In this case they're not just representing a dealership or franchise, they're representing a brand that's much bigger than them. I bet it probably gets tiring, but I also think that's part of the job, no? Speaking of Ford in particular, it seems they're perhaps misidentifying tyre kickers regularly with some of the stories going around. I've bought 2 new cars so far this year and I must say, Ford was a truly horrible experience across the few dealers that I visited. You wouldn't think that a salesman could be clueless about the product and arrogant at the same time, but they manage to pull it off.

[JAJH]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

While I imagine much of the work is commission based, I'd still expect a salesperson to remain polite and respectful because they're being paid a base salary to do exactly that. In this case they're not just representing a dealership or franchise, they're representing a brand that's much bigger than them. I bet it probably gets tiring, but I also think that's part of the job, no? Speaking of Ford in particular, it seems they're perhaps misidentifying tyre kickers regularly with some of the stories going around. I've bought 2 new cars so far this year and I must say, Ford was a truly horrible experience across the few dealers that I visited. You wouldn't think that a salesman could be clueless about the product and arrogant at the same time, but they manage to pull it off.

Agreed, that's why in my OP I stated I am a critic and advocate of salespeople because many times I have dealt with a salesperson and it astounds me either the lack of sales/product training or the complete disinterest on their part. I have bought many cars over the years and for most I didn't have too much of a problem with the process, it's all about how you deal with the salesperson. If I get a douche I move on till I get a decent one and deal with him/her.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by JAJH

"if the salespeople of the world went on strike tomorrow, the world's economy would collapse in a week". It might sound a bit over-dramatic but nothing in the world gets bought if someone didn't sell it first.

But this will never happen. However, buyers go on "strike" and things like GFC happen.

[Blem]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

But this will never happen. However, buyers go on "strike" and things like GFC happen.

People buy online & don't deal with fhead salespeople.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by JAJH

The customer who demands a discount or a better deal will rarely get one from me, yet the customer who is polite, engages in conversation and doesn't demand anything will usually get the best deal because they don't ask or expect it. It's always a 2 way street when dealing with people.

Then likely I could never buy a car off you. Not sure what your definition of "demand" is, but if I ask for a good deal or something off the price and I am refused I will walk. Seriously, does anyone ever pay the sticker price on a car?

Last car I bought was from a used car dealer, after determining it was a suitable car I phoned up and made an offer. It was advertised at $22k and I offered $20k, "No sorry, $22k is the price, we can't move from there" they tell me. "Ok thankyou for your time, I'll have to pass" I reply and the conversation was ended. Less than half an hour later they call back with a counter-offer of $21k which I accept.

Was this a 'demand' from me? I call it "making an offer" which literally any used car dealer should accept as common practise.

Just like your quote "The customer who demands a discount or a better deal will rarely get one from me", well I'd reply to that with "The used car salesman who refuses to negotiate will not get a sale from me".

Its a buyers market, who will be the one to lose out here?

[JAJH]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Then likely I could never buy a car off you. Not sure what your definition of "demand" is, but if I ask for a good deal or something off the price and I am refused I will walk. Seriously, does anyone ever pay the sticker price on a car?

Last car I bought was from a used car dealer, after determining it was a suitable car I phoned up and made an offer. It was advertised at $22k and I offered $20k, "No sorry, $22k is the price, we can't move from there" they tell me. "Ok thankyou for your time, I'll have to pass" I reply and the conversation was ended. Less than half an hour later they call back with a counter-offer of $21k which I accept.

Was this a 'demand' from me? I call it "making an offer" which literally any used car dealer should accept as common practise.

Just like your quote "The customer who demands a discount or a better deal will rarely get one from me", well I'd reply to that with "The used car salesman who refuses to negotiate will not get a sale from me".

Its a buyers market, who will be the one to lose out here?

Maybe I should have clarified...I'm not in the car trade nor have I ever been. I'm in a different field altogether although it is retail but when I refer to customers making demands, it's more from the standpoint of customers expecting/demanding discounts or trade discounts. We don't have to offer discounts at all but we do offer them to trade customers and those who have accounts. It's when customers who have no trade history with us expecting trade or best pricing they don't like being told no.

[falconhell74]

there are still some good salesmen out there , when I moved to Gladstone QLD I needed a second run around , I went to a couple of used car mobs and found a good one . I explained to the owner as it was a small used car lot that I was looking for a car no more than $1500.00 preferably a ford did he have anything .
He didn't at the time but said he regularly goes to all the other dealer ships in town and gets their trade ins for his business and he would let me know if he found anything to suit.
A couple of days later he rang me and told me he had a EB falcon in decent nick for $1000,00 .
I went and had a look , one owner with books pretty dam immaculate only issue was hood lining falling down .
He said if I wanted it to go to the ford dealership and to pay XXXXXX salesman there as he wasn't about to make any thing on the deal.
Needless to say I sent 2 other friends to him when they were looking for cars and he got 2 more sales from being a stand up guy.

[danzvtil]

I don't get the "im busy" entitlement coming from some sales people. You are in CUSTOMER SERVICE, talk to people and connect with them. Buying a car is a big deal for most people, so what if a prospect comes in and chews your ear 3 times before signing. Those 3 interactions were probably what made the customer comfortable enough to deal with you (or not).
I bought my rio from a dealer across town because I dropped in and had a chat with the sales guy 18 months earlier, he got a customer and not a sale on the day.
I too am in sales, I think sales training can confuse, having 30 seconds to make an impression with you have 30 seconds to close a deal.
My approach is to NOT sell the prospect anything in the first 5 mins of contact, just shoot the breeze, so they feel comfortable, its not rocket science.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by danzvtil

I don't get the "im busy" entitlement coming from some sales people. You are in CUSTOMER SERVICE, talk to people and connect with them.

Perhaps the car sales industry needs to be reformed so that a salesperson's performance is not judged on whether or not they meet or exceed their monthly quotas but on their customer service skills. That way, it frees them up focus on the customer rather than the sale.

[snopony]

I hate going into caryards now. My first and only run in was with an ageing salesman when I enquired about a dual cab. There were no niceties just "what would a girl like you want with a ute?" not that anyone needs a reason but to tow a horse float? soooo the nice man at Toyota sold me a Landcruiser ute and the next two times I bought from the dealership I made sure it wasnt oldmate, but one of his other salespeople. just BLAH.