"Viability" of holding onto classic cars

[Polyal]

This is not intended to be doom and gloom, nor anything about the ROI of owning a classic, more about the challenges of ongoing ownership.

What are peoples thoughts on continuing to preserve, restore and in some cases just maintain classic cars into the future? Additionally how will this effect prices?

Given the EV movement, which I suspect will start a shift in skill requirements, once the current generation of mechanics, body/panel tradespeople start to reduce that IMO is going to increase the cost (charge rate) of who is left.

Is the ongoing financial appreciation of these cars going to continue? Have we now seen the peak? What future buyer is going to be willing to spend $30-40k minimum on a decent X series Ford?

Covid has done some strange things to prices as it is, perhaps a readjustment is on the cards once we get to a point of a decent vaccination rate?

In the past it has been different, there was no EV talk as such so if you owned a classic or vintage car then the trades were still working on new mechanical driven cars so its not too dissimilar.

Once EV etc take the majority of the market share its going to be a strange dynamic.

One positive in todays world is that if you are half savvy and willing there are loads of information available, case in point this forum. They will be valuable resources and perhaps bring those communities closer together?

[xxx000]

The pool of such cars to restore will naturally dry up as it's done many times over with other cars older than the x series.
So then it will be people maintaining their classic restored cars.
The age of owners and interested others increases and the numbers eventually dwindle away to almost nothing, it's a cycle

[Falcon SXR8]

There is more information than ever on the internet to do with repairing and looking after old stuff. There will always be enthusiasts looking after cars from the good old days. Ev's are boring as watching paint dry compared to a classic ice vehicle. People will soon get sick of only being able to change there wheels on there ev's as a way of being different. What does a tesla car show offer? Rows of white teslas that all look identical, will they have their bonnets up to show off what mods are done? Maybe they will be fun on the drag strip, yes thats it there super fast. Oh wait they all just do run after run of factory quarter mile times, maybe some a few tenths quicker because they pulled the interior out.

Point is enthusiast ice vehicle's aint going to die off over night. People are realizing that electric is coming and they are snapping up all the good ice stuff now before its out of reach. And thats not just old farts thats young ones too, there is a heap of young ones right into ice vehicles now. Take a look at some of the biggest youtube car channels, mostly young people, and right into performance ice cars. Some own teslas but there mostly treated as side show freaks, take there mates out for a few 0-100 runs then put them in the corner and get back to modding jdm rockets or fast comaros/mustangs/italian supercars.

Will ice enthusiast vehicles dissapear eventually and become unwanted? Yes, but its a very long way off and I'd say most of us will be long gone by then.

[Burnout]

The Classic will always be around, always.
The Govt, greens etc will never stop the ownership of classic cars/houses/buildings/bridges/ etc ad infinitum.

[Bill M]

Assuming the fuel majors find it profitable enough to keep fossil fuel available for a shrinking pool of users.

[Smoke Pursuit]

I still cannot get over the price of some cars at the moment. I really wonder if they are fetching what people have them advertised for.



I also wonder if our last generation of Aussie made cars will actually go up or not given the sheer volume of them that have been kept as new? Back in the 70's people drove them and wrecked them which is why they became so valuable. Now with so many mint examples sitting idle what will happen?

[ozrunner]

Originally Posted by Polyal

..........Once EV etc take the majority of the market share its going to be a strange dynamic..........

Don't panic as most of us and perhaps even yourself will be dead before that happens.

Originally Posted by Bill M

Assuming the fuel majors find it profitable enough to keep fossil fuel available for a shrinking pool of users.

C'Mon Bill surely you are not that silly to believe this will happen in the foreseeable future in Oz.

[Citroënbender]

Even “iconic” heritage is being whittled away globally. Monetised, written off, marginalised - whatever the reasons, it’s happening. I think only a few really old structures will ride this out over time - Stonehenge, the Colosseum, the Parthenon, the Kaaba - and post-industrial creations will yield.

Accordingly, fringe items will fade. It may not happen that fast but for many the relevance has been surpassed by illogical obeisance. When that is surely questioned, is the turning point. Some linger surprisingly, like ivory - why? (I have no suggestions.)

I don’t think it matters in this respect if collectible cars aren’t driven; look at the stashing away of 1959 Gibson guitars as an example of hoarding without use. It’s a slow burn but I think in time the rapid appreciation curve will tail off and eventually these things will approach parity with other items of indulgent curiosity.

Perhaps the short answer is, viability is not great if you intend to keep and drive the cars for the next 25 years…

[jaydee]

I will give you my classic car when you have to pry my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel.
Apologies to Charlton Heston.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by jaydee

I will give you my classic car when you have to pry my cold dead fingers from the steering wheel.
Apologies to Charlton Heston.

Thats how I felt about single use plastics but they still took them out of my cold dead hands :(

[kypez]

I think there will be a market but I also feel we are hitting the peak of it; especially with modern classics like the GTF.

I don't think I'll live long enough to see the Mach 1 appreciate in Price but then again, I felt that way with regards to the GTF. I got that very wrong.

Having had classic cars its a lot of work at times but worth it if you enjoy the hobby.

The style of enthusiasts has changed as well. Nowadays, young ICE enthusiasts are more about a Stage 1,2,3 kit on their cars. Its literally the same aftermarket kits on every single car. Its boring as hell.

EV mods will come and the beauty of them (IMO) is that people don't approach them with the blunt instrument view of just trying to get more horsepower out of them. People will finally start to think about the chassis, unsprung weight, and so on before getting into the Horsepower. I find it downright crazy when I hear someone talking about huge HP mods on FPV GT's or Barra's with no thought to the rest of the car. You can have those "enthusiasts". An XY/A/B/C with a huge supercharger or big block and the standard wheels and brakes is nothing impressive in my mind. But, each to their own. Classics will remain even with EVs. I hope they continue into the future; I like seeing them on the road.

What I do expect, like the new E Type EV, is that a lot of those old classics will get an EV driveline which, lets be honest, will make them much more reliable! Many want a classic for the styling and thats great but Many hate the engines for their unreliability.

Changing wheels is no more a mod than simply flash tuning your car to generate more power.

And once International travel reopens it will adjust these prices. Make hay while the sun shines if you want to sell a Classic car. Wait a while if you want to buy one.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by kypez

What I do expect, like the new E Type EV, is that a lot of those old classics will get an EV driveline which, lets be honest, will make them much more reliable! Many want a classic for the styling and thats great but Many hate the engines for their unreliability.

So long as they keep Lucas away from the electrics this time around

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Smoke Pursuit

I still cannot get over the price of some cars at the moment. I really wonder if they are fetching what people have them advertised for.



I also wonder if our last generation of Aussie made cars will actually go up or not given the sheer volume of them that have been kept as new? Back in the 70's people drove them and wrecked them which is why they became so valuable. Now with so many mint examples sitting idle what will happen?

You need to remember that FG onwards Falcons were built in considerably smaller numbers than all previous series were. Especially fg-x.

[tweeked]

3D printing will be everyone classic owners friend. I can see a point where someone will be able to make any part. Metal printing will trickle down to home users the way plastic printing has already.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Is the ongoing financial appreciation of these cars going to continue? Have we now seen the peak?

My Thoughts Are, Once the current owners of the Classics from the 60's-80's Dies & the Kids/Grandkids aren't Too interested in them Values Will readjust..

You Only have to Look at Prices of Cars from the 20's & 30's where $25-$30K will get you a Nice Car...Once they lose Their "Sentimental" value , They're just Another Old Car..

Just My 2cents worth..

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by hayseed

My Thoughts Are, Once the current owners of the Classics from the 60's-80's Dies & the Kids/Grandkids aren't Too interested in them Values Will readjust..

You Only have to Look at Prices of Cars from the 20's & 30's where $25-$30K will get you a Nice Car...Once they lose Their "Sentimental" value , They're just Another Old Car..

Just My 2cents worth..

While I agree generally with what you say, the last good sounding powerful and technically most advanced v8s I think will maintain a demand in perpetuity when all that is around is the vanilla EV baby custard on offer.

The vanilla EV baby custard will never give you that sound of 8 cylinder detonating fuel by explosions, with cherry on top Miami supercharger whine up front.

The last of the high tech quad cam v8s with superchargers are right in the mix of THE very best of the ICE engines, with the drama of the rear explosions and banshee wail of the supercharger up front.

It is a visceral experience combined with some 500 plus hp, totally different to a car from the 20 or 30s which was ICE in its infancy and being honest, boring in sound and performance.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by asagaai

It is a visceral experience combined with some 500 plus hp, totally different to a car from the 20 or 30s which was ICE in its infancy and being honest, boring in sound and performance.

Steam engines float my boat, big time. Particularly the chuff, chuff sound of exhaust steam existing the blast pipe. I am old enough to remember watching steam trains do their thing, and I wanted to be an steam engine driver when I grew up.

The cold harsh reality is that steam engines are not the best passenger experience. They stink. Spray fine soot over ones clothes, and getting soot into one's eyes is a horrible experience. They are noisy and slow. To be honest, I much prefer catching an electric train to work. Quiet. Fast. Smooth. And air conditioned.

So, in 50 years time I suspect people will marvel at an ICE. Similar to how we look at steam engines today, they will be impressed by the engineering and wonder in amazement how the previous generation could do so much with such primitive technology. They will giggle at the noise and think how cool it would be.

And then jump back into their cosseted, almost silent, autonomous driving EV, be quietly glad they don't have to operate such complex controls like a clutch and gearbox, and head back home ....

Getting back to the question raised by the OP, it appears that all old machinery goes through a "valley of disinterest" post decommissioning. For example, there were over 22,000 Supermarine Spitfires built during WW2, of which only 179 originals remain. Most were scrapped and melted down, some dumped at sea. Now they are around $5M each (when one comes onto the market).

Take steam engines, again, most were sold off for their just scrap value. Or placed in parks for kids to play on (until OHS rules came in, and now you don't find them in parks.) Steam enthusiasts spend big bucks repairing the few viable ones remaining. Even now Queensland Rail is scrapping its first generation of electric suburban trains. No one raises an eyebrow, because no one cares.

For any enthusiast wishing to hold onto a classic car, it is always an uphill battle. Always was. Always will be. That is why only enthusiasts undertake the challenge as it is a labour of love.

As others have pointed out, having the Internet around will help. Both in terms of accessing technical information and sourcing components. In addition, additive manufacturing (3D printing) is getting cheaper, and that will help fill in some repair gaps. Liquid fuel will be readily available for the next 100 years (at least), and will probably progress to synthetic fuels. If worst comes to worst, one can convert an ICE to run on hydrogen gas generated by a renewable source.

In terms of skill base, yes, that too will decline over time.

As an aside, there is a great article in today's Wall Street Journal about the challenges facing people who are employed building ICE engines. Worth a read (I think this link to a free article will work.)

https://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-eng...hare_permalink

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by whynot

Steam engines float my boat, big time. Particularly the chuff, chuff sound of exhaust steam existing the blast pipe. I am old enough to remember watching steam trains do their thing, and I wanted to be an steam engine driver when I grew up.

I remember being a very young kid in a passenger train being pulled by a couple of steam engines up front, and I remember the train going through big curves, and depending on wind getting the smoke blown into ones face.

But the sound- going up steep big hills the chuffing and straining, and down descents the rapid gunshot staccato was thrilling the hear. All the kids and even adults had wide grins on faces with windows open , listening as the train was racing down hills fast.

Sound- incredibly important to a human's perception and experience....

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by asagaai

I remember being a very young kid in a passenger train being pulled by a couple of steam engines up front, and I remember the train going through big curves, and depending on wind getting the smoke blown into ones face.

But the sound- going up steep big hills the chuffing and straining, and down descents the rapid gunshot staccato was thrilling the hear. All the kids and even adults had wide grins on faces with windows open , listening as the train was racing down hills fast.

Sound- incredibly important to a human's perception and experience....

Have you been to Kuranda?..via Cairns, that will blow you away, as a kid I sat on a bridge in Liverpool UK, its got the Ford Halewood Car plant in the way now, but I'd walk with my brothers to the bridge and wait for the Flying Scotsman to come through, wow what a wonderful beast, dident need a timetable, it was front page on the newspaper!


Cheers Billy.

[CyberWasp]

Originally Posted by asagaai

The vanilla EV baby custard will never give you that sound of 8 cylinder detonating fuel by explosions, with cherry on top Miami supercharger whine up front.

I don't know about that.
It will be as easy as selecting a new ring tone for your phone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--ezgU8Nro0

For the record I don't like this but are just saying....

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by hayseed

My Thoughts Are, Once the current owners of the Classics from the 60's-80's Dies & the Kids/Grandkids aren't Too interested in them Values Will readjust..

You Only have to Look at Prices of Cars from the 20's & 30's where $25-$30K will get you a Nice Car...Once they lose Their "Sentimental" value , They're just Another Old Car..

Just My 2cents worth..

Have to disagree, ..if I still had my 1985 Corvette Coupe, RHD, red on red, fully loaded then I guarantee a child born today would in 17 years time drool over it, it looked classy, was classy, and hammered all day, and it sounded the part, it was basically standard too, had Z51 pack added and 12 inch rubber all round!..


Cheers King Billy.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Have to disagree, ..if I still had my 1985 Corvette Coupe, RHD, red on red, fully loaded then I guarantee a child born today would in 17 years time drool over it, it looked classy, was classy, and hammered all day, and it sounded the part, it was basically standard too, had Z51 pack added and 12 inch rubber all round!..


Cheers King Billy.

Fair enough, However.. What about someone born in 30-40 Yrs Time..??

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Fair enough, However.. What about someone born in 30-40 Yrs Time..??

Don't know, I just answered in your timeline, it was a very good looking car especially red on red, you know the old saying "red sells", it wasn't a Model T but a missile, if mishandled!


Cheers Billy.

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by hayseed

Fair enough, However.. What about someone born in 30-40 Yrs Time..??

there is a bloke 3 doors up that has a period correct 1910's something, its ugly and tall and slow, i don't even look twice at it, down the street a bloke has a xy gt and a xu1, love it all day long.

for me i love 90's and early 2000's

for kids born in 40 years time they will look at the generation i love like i look at old mates 1910's thing.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

there is a bloke 3 doors up that has a period correct 1910's something, its ugly and tall and slow, i don't even look twice at it, down the street a bloke has a xy gt and a xu1, love it all day long.

for me i love 90's and early 2000's

for kids born in 40 years time they will look at the generation i love like i look at old mates 1910's thing.

Agree, that's the same as myself, 1990s/00s are my favourite era of car.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

there is a bloke 3 doors up that has a period correct 1910's something, its ugly and tall and slow, i don't even look twice at it, down the street a bloke has a xy gt and a xu1, love it all day long.

for me i love 90's and early 2000's

for kids born in 40 years time they will look at the generation i love like i look at old mates 1910's thing.

Yep, That's the point I was trying to Make,

[Mulva]

Remember when people would say "fully worked".

I miss the sound of straight-cut gears.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Mulva

Remember when people would say "fully worked".

I miss the sound of straight-cut gears.

Ha Ha- "fully worked".

Usually meant bigger valves, polished and ported, bigger holley/webbers, extractor, sports exhaust, possibly shaved head or high compression pistons and bigger cam, possibly "balanced and blue printed".

Probably a lot safer and less chance detonating than the risk buying a "fully worked" blown Barra or Miami.....

[wodahs]

i keep my classic
as long as its worth some thing its worth keeping
when the point comes its no longer worth anything it wont be worth getting rid off and ill still enjoy keeping it

[Hippy]

Originally Posted by wodahs

i keep my classic
as long as its worth some thing its worth keeping
when the point comes its no longer worth anything it wont be worth getting rid off and ill still enjoy keeping it

Spot on . IMO , and yep i remember . having [ to my specs , my money ]

worked , 149 , 60 thou off heads , 60/40 cam , flywheel spun off [ Balanced]

X2 twin carbs , Granny 3 on tha tree .

had ta do a new England start , starter motor could not hack it ,,

hey get this ,,,, in a FC... bloody Diffs , local wrecker , made some money..