Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated.

Go Back   Australian Ford Forums > General Topics > The Pub

The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22-01-2022, 01:27 PM   #1
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Thought this could be an interesting topic to discuss given current world happenings around climate change and fossil fuels - specifically around how this will effect us car enthusiasts, before we're all dead and buried and our grandkids are renting single use cars on some phone app because no one owns cars anymore

There's been a couple nations who have banned the sale of cars powered by good old dead dinosaurs, dug up from deep in the ground, and have been promoting EVs and all other sorts of substitutes to what we've known and used for over 100 years now.

Do you think there will be a stop gap measure implemented to allow people who already own traditional internal combustion engine cars (see 99.9% of AFF) to continue to keep their '****box fleet' on the road?

I have an automotive engineer as a customer at work and we were talking about modified cars and getting past an emissions test, he mentioned you could convert it to run on E85 as a single fuel vehicle, and it will blitz the $1500 emissions test you have to pass before you get the mod plate, alcohol based fuels (particularly ethanol) creates much less nasties out the exhaust compared to typical unleaded fuel.

I have a feeling that while E85 is currently an obscure and hard to source fuel, this could be a great stop gap as a compromise for people who don't have the money to buy an EV (especially at current market rates) while keeping the environmental boffins happy - something that could bring real and tangible reductions through a low hanging fruit easy to implement measure.

For older diesel vehicles there is also biodiesel/waste vegetable oil - one of our forum members rokwiz runs his truck fleet on biodiesel/waste vegetable oil (his build threads are worth a view).

Maybe we could see cars powered by different types of fuels? BMW had done a hydrogen powered 7 series in 1990/1991 and again in 2007 using their 6L V12 7 series and created a dual fuel hydrogen/unleaded powered car (and it was crap)

Now there's focus on hydrogen yet again, maybe in fuel cell applications.

Something I'm also interested in is maritime freight, at the moment ships use some horrible heavy fuel oil substance that is absolutely horrible from an environmental perspective, we've got nuclear powered ships in use for military applications such as large aircraft carriers and submarines - could this technology see civilian applications such as cruise ships and freight?

Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 01:27 PM   #2
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

EDIT: - Didn't realise can embed multiple videos in single post
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2022, 01:28 PM   #3
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

1991 Hydrogen 7 series (Recorded 1/3/1991)



2007 Hydrogen 7



Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2022, 01:57 PM   #4
Bossxr8
Peter Car
 
Bossxr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

What decline? From what i last read oil production isn’t expected to peak until 2040. While the chinese are ensuring coal production keeps rising by building and opening new coal powered stations.

Fossil fuels aren’t going away any time soon.
Bossxr8 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2022, 07:50 PM   #5
98TLS
Donating Member
Donating Member3
 
98TLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 8,594
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8 View Post
What decline? From what i last read oil production isn’t expected to peak until 2040. While the chinese are ensuring coal production keeps rising by building and opening new coal powered stations.

Fossil fuels aren’t going away any time soon.
stop being so sensible eh,rumour has it by 2030 only the un jabbed will be left/Trump will make a comeback and those that went a step to far will thanks to gravity wade ashore looking for Cav.
__________________
Be the man your dog thinks you are.
98TLS is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 11:33 PM   #6
Big_Daz
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Brisbane (Southside)
Posts: 1,181
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossxr8 View Post
What decline? From what i last read oil production isn’t expected to peak until 2040. While the chinese are ensuring coal production keeps rising by building and opening new coal powered stations.

Fossil fuels aren’t going away any time soon.
Yeah, I heard that somewhere as well, we are nowhere near the end of fossil fuel cars, regardless of what people say...

Me? I turn 40 this year, so I'll no doubt be enjoying my fossil fueled vehicles until I shove off...
__________________
2008 FG XR6 Turbo ZF In Sensation - Gone, but not Forgotten....

Hers: 2024 Ford Everest Platinum in Equinox Bronze
His Daily: 2020 (MY21) Kia Sorento GT-Line in Mineral Blue
His Weekender: 2017 Commodore SSV Redline manual in Light My Fire Orange
Big_Daz is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 02:11 PM   #7
Blue Ice
Living the Dream
 
Blue Ice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Traralgon, Victoria
Posts: 454
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

The less everyone else burns, the more there is for me!
Blue Ice is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
5 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 02:13 PM   #8
roKWiz
Cabover nut
 
roKWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 11,507
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

'Diesel...the fuel of Satan." Jeremy Clarkson
__________________
heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration
In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752

roKWiz is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2022, 05:23 PM   #9
DJM83
Barra Turbo > V8
Donating Member3
 
DJM83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,181
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ice View Post
The less everyone else burns, the more there is for me!
This.

The less the other folks use thinking they doing the right thing by having an electric car et al the better for me, and many others.
0 interest in hybrids/battery/electric Elon tesla kinda cars.


No disrespect to folks that buy em though.
__________________
-2011 XR6 Turbo Ute - Lux Pack - M6
-2022 Hyundai Tucson Highlander Diesel N Line
DJM83 is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 02:16 PM   #10
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

I'm with you gents, fossil fuels aren't going anywhere except in the heads of greenwashing assholes with vested interests.

But - we're talking alternatives to unleaded to power transport.
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 02:26 PM   #11
GasoLane
Former BTIKD
Donating Member2
 
GasoLane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sunny Downtown Wagga Wagga. NSW.
Posts: 53,197
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
Thought this could be an interesting topic to discuss given current world happenings around climate change and fossil fuels - specifically around how this will effect us car enthusiasts, before we're all dead and buried and our grandkids are renting single use cars on some phone app because no one owns cars anymore

There's been a couple nations who have banned the sale of cars powered by good old dead dinosaurs, dug up from deep in the ground, and have been promoting EVs and all other sorts of substitutes to what we've known and used for over 100 years now.

Do you think there will be a stop gap measure implemented to allow people who already own traditional internal combustion engine cars (see 99.9% of AFF) to continue to keep their '****box fleet' on the road?

I have an automotive engineer as a customer at work and we were talking about modified cars and getting past an emissions test, he mentioned you could convert it to run on E85 as a single fuel vehicle, and it will blitz the $1500 emissions test you have to pass before you get the mod plate, alcohol based fuels (particularly ethanol) creates much less nasties out the exhaust compared to typical unleaded fuel.

I have a feeling that while E85 is currently an obscure and hard to source fuel, this could be a great stop gap as a compromise for people who don't have the money to buy an EV (especially at current market rates) while keeping the environmental boffins happy - something that could bring real and tangible reductions through a low hanging fruit easy to implement measure.

For older diesel vehicles there is also biodiesel/waste vegetable oil - one of our forum members rokwiz runs his truck fleet on biodiesel/waste vegetable oil (his build threads are worth a view).

Maybe we could see cars powered by different types of fuels? BMW had done a hydrogen powered 7 series in 1990/1991 and again in 2007 using their 6L V12 7 series and created a dual fuel hydrogen/unleaded powered car (and it was crap)

Now there's focus on hydrogen yet again, maybe in fuel cell applications.

Something I'm also interested in is maritime freight, at the moment ships use some horrible heavy fuel oil substance that is absolutely horrible from an environmental perspective, we've got nuclear powered ships in use for military applications such as large aircraft carriers and submarines - could this technology see civilian applications such as cruise ships and freight?
This is from someone who used to love laying down a smokescreen for following cars?
__________________
Dying at your job is natures way of saying that you're in the wrong line of work.
GasoLane is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
4 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 02:31 PM   #12
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by GasoLane View Post
This is from someone who used to love laying down a smokescreen for following cars?
Used to? I still do
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 03:31 PM   #13
Rallye Sport
RS The Faster Fords
 
Rallye Sport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Westralia
Posts: 1,698
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

I can't see my any change to my enthusiast vehicles, I only drive them on weekends, if in the future I need to apply for my ration, avoid cities, convert to a different fuel or change setups to pass emissions (it was good enough for VW) so be, but rest assured as soon as I get home I'll be bolting a bank of webers' back on.

As far as my enthusiasm goes, I welcome the change. I've got no interest in my dailies nor the new car market, Mustangs, Rangers and SUV's just do nothing for me.
However, an electric sedan, I won't mention any brands capable of blistering, no fuss performance certainly appeals to me and would definately rekindle an enthusiasm for my motoring future.
__________________
Escort RS2000 Restored factory a/c and alloys.
TD Cortina Unrestored 35 000km 6cyl manual.
Mk1 GT Cortina Project.
FG XR50 Daily.
Rallye Sport is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 03:34 PM   #14
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Same with me, I'm happy to have my fleet of ****boxes, I'll generally always have a V8 car as one of the fleet,

For the sake of being able to still drive them, I'd do something like an E85 conversion if thats required in future... or LPG but the rate thats disappearing from servos is ridiculous
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 04:07 PM   #15
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Governments will continue herding us towards more efficient vehicle choices like hybrids, PHEVs and BEVs,
fuel companies will try to maintain revenue by increasing price which will only affect older ICE vehicles.
Commercial and diesel Utes will probably see a more gradual price rise.

Question is when will we be talking $2.50/litre and then $3.00/litre, forcing people to change….
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 04:10 PM   #16
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd80 View Post
Governments will continue herding us towards more efficient vehicle choices like hybrids, PHEVs and BEVs,
fuel companies will try to maintain revenue by increasing price which will only affect older ICE vehicles.
Commercial and diesel Utes will probably see a more gradual price rise.

Question is when will we be talking $2.50/litre and then $3.00/litre, forcing people to change….
Or where is the point where people get the ****s up and pull a Kazakhstan over fuel prices doubling from 16 cents a liter to 32 cents a liter and trash the joint

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-59896471
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 04:51 PM   #17
roKWiz
Cabover nut
 
roKWiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Onsite Eastcoast
Posts: 11,507
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

The price of diesel goes up, then simply the costs of transport are passed onto Joe Public.
__________________
heritagestonemason.com/Fordlouisvillerestoration
In order that the labour of centuries past may not be in vain during the centuries to come...... D. Diderot 1752

roKWiz is online now   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 22-01-2022, 05:16 PM   #18
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by roKWiz View Post
The price of diesel goes up, then simply the costs of transport are passed onto Joe Public.
Correct, inflation affecting all freight and goods but without wages growth……
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 05:04 PM   #19
GASWAGON
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,305
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

After watching those Youtube Hydrogen clips I dont have much faith in Hydrogen the tanks are huge taking up passenger space and the power loss and travel range are effected massively.

EV's are much more efficient in my opinion and Lithium battery technology keeps getting better and better as we move away from ICE's.

I'll take a Mustang EV anyday over the Hydrogen Beemer!
GASWAGON is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 05:35 PM   #20
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by GASWAGON View Post
After watching those Youtube Hydrogen clips I dont have much faith in Hydrogen the tanks are huge taking up passenger space and the power loss and travel range are effected massively.

EV's are much more efficient in my opinion and Lithium battery technology keeps getting better and better as we move away from ICE's.

I'll take a Mustang EV anyday over the Hydrogen Beemer!
The storage part of hydrogen is a real pain in the ***,

Also the whole fact that you need to use electrolysis to convert it from water to hydrogen, then compress it into bottles, transport it to a servo, then pump it into your car, where its not 100% efficient, then use the hydrogen to convert back into electricity to power car through a hydrogen fuel cell is a bit silly.

By the time you take into account all those things its sub 40% efficient,

You might as well as take that power from the grid and use it to charge batteries in an EV rather than go through all the above just to get water coming out the exhaust.

Maybe hydrogen could be used as a heating source, kinda like how we use compressed natural gas and LPG - might make sense in that application rather than transport purposes.

I saw an Australian company has already made a hydrogen BBQ:

https://www.heatlie.com.au/hydrogen-bbq

https://www.heatlie.com.au/hydrogen-...ture-of-bbqing

Quote:
Hydrogen Cooking & Efficiency
The Heatlie hydrogen barbecue is the first of its kind, and proof of what the future holds for BBQing. We strived to show that hydrogen is the future of gas appliances. Through our testing, we found that it's capable of producing the same heat output as LPG and natural gas, through the use of less gas, leading to a more efficient cook.

This works by utilising the high combustion rate of hydrogen to reduce the gas flow, thus producing a more efficient barbecue whilst also generating the same even heat distribution.

Hydrogen consumes .35 kgs of fuel per hour, almost half that of Natural Gas and LPG. This means it is exceptionally efficient, however even better, it will create double the heat from the same amount of fuel. Hydrogen generates 120 Megajoules of heat per kilogram of fuel consumed, compared to 53 MJ for Natural gas, and 71 MJ for LPG.

The hydrogen BBQ is based on our standard 850 models, looks and cooks like any normal BBQ. The only thing that's changed is the addition of a hydrogen regulator and a different burner system that allows for hydrogen use. The best part is it's all 100% Australian made.
Is the future of the humble swap and go hydrogen?

We've had some crazy engine swaps done by this community and some absolutely epic projects - wonder who is going to be the first to use one of those electric crate motors Ford offers?

Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 22-01-2022 at 05:43 PM.
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 11:45 PM   #21
JasonACT
Away on leave
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: ACT
Posts: 1,735
Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Outstanding work on the FG ICC issues. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: The insane amount of work he has put into the Falcon FG ICC is unbelievable. He has shared everything he has done and made a great deal of it available to us all. He has definitely helped a great deal of us with no personal gains to himself. 
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
The storage part of hydrogen is a real pain in the ***,
...
By the time you take into account all those things its sub 40% efficient
I was surprised to hear about helium, you try to store it and it evaporates and leaves the Earth. Too light to to remain here. Weird, but I think about Mars, was there once an abundance of water there? Was there intelligent life there? Did they split water into usable energy?

Did it all eventually evaporate?

Nah, I'm going to bed and sleep like a baby tonight, we're smarter than that.
JasonACT is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 23-01-2022, 10:18 AM   #22
jpd80
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
jpd80's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,412
Valued Contributor: For members whose non technical contributions are worthy of recognition. - Issue reason: Thoughtful contributions to our community 
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonACT View Post
I was surprised to hear about helium, you try to store it and it evaporates and leaves the Earth. Too light to to remain here. Weird, but I think about Mars, was there once an abundance of water there? Was there intelligent life there? Did they split water into usable energy?

Did it all eventually evaporate?

Nah, I'm going to bed and sleep like a baby tonight, we're smarter than that.
Unlike the Earth, Mars does not have a magnetosphere to hold the atmosphere in.
NASA seems to think it was solar wind that gradually drew Mars’s atmosphere away.
https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/sc...le33910913.ece
jpd80 is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 23-01-2022, 10:40 AM   #23
slowsnake
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Perth Australia
Posts: 3,618
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonACT View Post
I was surprised to hear about helium, you try to store it and it evaporates and leaves the Earth. Too light to to remain here. Weird, but I think about Mars, was there once an abundance of water there? Was there intelligent life there? Did they split water into usable energy?

Did it all eventually evaporate?

Nah, I'm going to bed and sleep like a baby tonight, we're smarter than that.
If this mob here on AFF think I'm mad, then they will think you are madder!........
slowsnake is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 23-01-2022, 08:45 PM   #24
JasonACT
Away on leave
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: ACT
Posts: 1,735
Tech Writer: Recognition for the technical writers of AFF - Issue reason: Outstanding work on the FG ICC issues. Technical Contributor: For members who share their technical expertise. - Issue reason: The insane amount of work he has put into the Falcon FG ICC is unbelievable. He has shared everything he has done and made a great deal of it available to us all. He has definitely helped a great deal of us with no personal gains to himself. 
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowsnake View Post
If this mob here on AFF think I'm mad, then they will think you are madder!........
Yeah, but when I said "I think about..." it was pretty much triggered by the content in this thread - and I promptly forgot what I wrote in my post (and slept like a baby) before re-reading it just now.

(Much like I quickly forgot what the BF guys are doing in the FG thread.)
JasonACT is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Old 24-01-2022, 11:00 AM   #25
Vesper Martini
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Vesper Martini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by GASWAGON View Post

I'll take a Mustang EV anyday over the Hydrogen Beemer!
sure the mustang EV will see the 7 series off at the lights. But..

lets look at something more real world (and they do this stuff on Topgear etc). if there were a race between Victoria & NSW at legal speed limits. who would get there sooner, and lets assume there were adequate filling stations locations for both.

from what I could find(correct me if im wrong guys)
Mustang EV range 370km
V12 hydrogen 7 series range 480km

The beemer can do it in one stop, and im going to assume the fill up time is a lot quicker.
__________________
______________________________
2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD
2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport
Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP
Vesper Martini is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 24-01-2022, 11:15 AM   #26
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesper Martini View Post
sure the mustang EV will see the 7 series off at the lights. But..

lets look at something more real world (and they do this stuff on Topgear etc). if there were a race between Victoria & NSW at legal speed limits. who would get there sooner, and lets assume there were adequate filling stations locations for both.

from what I could find(correct me if im wrong guys)
Mustang EV range 370km
V12 hydrogen 7 series range 480km

The beemer can do it in one stop, and im going to assume the fill up time is a lot quicker.
Keeping in mind Hydrogen 7 series of 2007 vintage does 50L/100km on hydrogen.

Quote:
The Hydrogen 7 was based on the 760Li model and featured two tanks: one for hydrogen and one for gasoline. The 6-liter V12 engine under the hood was modified so that it could use both fuels. Unfortunately, the efficiency the car had on hydrogen was extremely low, returning about 5.6 mpg (50 l/100km) on average, mostly due to the difference in energy density between petrol and hydrogen. Even so, the green character of the car was evident as CO2 emissions were eliminated completely.
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
This user likes this post:
Old 24-01-2022, 03:12 PM   #27
Vesper Martini
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
Vesper Martini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
Keeping in mind Hydrogen 7 series of 2007 vintage does 50L/100km on hydrogen.
must have a big tank then.. perhaps thats why it was done on the 7 series
__________________
______________________________
2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD
2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport
Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP
Vesper Martini is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
Old 24-01-2022, 04:06 PM   #28
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vesper Martini View Post
must have a big tank then.. perhaps thats why it was done on the 7 series
Note that you buy hydrogen on weight rather than volume like unleaded from the servo - its also stored in the tank at circa 5000-10,000 PSI.

Someone who knows science crap and numbers, whats 20kg of hydrogen in liters?

Here's another interesting comparison,

Compare energy density of hydrogen by weight compared to unleaded, then compare it by volume, the former keeps being used as a marketing point but its telling half a story.

Hydrogen is also very light in comparison to unleaded.

Can't remember buying 38.25KG of diesel, but I've bought 45L plenty of times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog View Post
According to their product specification sheet regarding the eTurbo by BW, it's available in 48-450 VDC versions. I imagine these would be very useful in the transport/logistics industry.
450V DC makes sense because the current draw massively drops, even with 48V DC it would too.

12V DC - there's probably a reason it needs assistance from a regular turbo to be in the system and this extra thing just helps along rather than runs the whole show.

I'm not calling bull**** on the product itself - I reckon its a fantastic idea, anything where you can **** off mechanical controlled variations for electrical is better as you get much more precise control over something, but I'm suspect of a practical implementation, knowing one of the limitations on a 12V DC system is going to be current draw if you tried to replicate an electrical variation of a turbo.

Imagine how much air a GT3576 on an FG XR6T moves and the forces involved in doing it, now replicate that with an electric motor driving the compressor instead of exhaust gasses moving the turbine.

Then do the same exercise on a 15L Cummins engine.

Last edited by Franco Cozzo; 24-01-2022 at 04:18 PM.
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 06:17 PM   #29
T3rminator
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
 
T3rminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,938
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo View Post
Do you think there will be a stop gap measure implemented to allow people who already own traditional internal combustion engine cars (see 99.9% of AFF) to continue to keep their '****box fleet' on the road?
Yes. I can't see how they could do a hard ban for existing owners, it would be a real vote loser for whoever is brave dumb enough to do it.

Most likely it will be done covertly, probably through taxes, making fossil fuel cars unviable to own eventually. Its already started in the UK. £12.50 a day if want to drive within a ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zone), The ULEZ pretty much covers the CBD and surrounding inner suburbs.
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Rides (past and present)
Current: 2004 Ford Falcon 5.4L 3v Barra 220, Manual
Past: Mitsubishi Sigma (m), Toyota Seca (m), Toyota Seca SX (m), Toyota Vienta V6 (m), Toyota Soarer 4L v8 (a), BA XR8 ute (m), T3 TE50 (m), BMW Z4 (m)

AFF motto - If contrary views trigger, please use ignore button.
T3rminator is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
2 users like this post:
Old 22-01-2022, 06:45 PM   #30
Franco Cozzo
Thailand Specials
 
Franco Cozzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,820
Default Re: The decline of fossil fuels - and how that effects car enthusiasts

Quote:
Originally Posted by T3rminator View Post
Yes. I can't see how they could do a hard ban for existing owners, it would be a real vote loser for whoever is brave dumb enough to do it.

Most likely it will be done covertly, probably through taxes, making fossil fuel cars unviable to own eventually. Its already started in the UK. £12.50 a day if want to drive within a ULEZ (Ultra Low Emission Zone), The ULEZ pretty much covers the CBD and surrounding inner suburbs.
The UK can jam it's ULEZ where the sun don't shine, we have the ULEH already, Sydney Rd Campbellfield, modified Commodore and Falcon special area, admission is free it just needs to be modified
Franco Cozzo is offline   Reply With Quote Multi-Quote with this Post
3 users like this post:
Reply


Forum Jump


All times are GMT +11. The time now is 03:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Other than what is legally copyrighted by the respective owners, this site is copyright www.fordforums.com.au
Positive SSL